Is this what society has come to?

Scouse

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Tom said:
People bitch about Elon Musk and he's obviously a bit of a dick, but at least he's doing worthwhile things with his cash. Even if it will eventually lead to Quaid starting the reactor.
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He's also trashing the night sky without so much as a by-your-leave to humanity so firmly lands in "cunt" category for me regardless of his politics. But then, that's because we allow outrageous wealth to land in the hands of single people.
 
Embattle

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We are intentionally supposed to be two genders which allows us to continue through time by procreating and we aren't bluehead wrasse, in the nicest way possible the people born in to the intersex category are down to a failure in the mix to produce one of two previous genders. The procreating reason is why I don't view gays, lesbians, etc as natural but I do view it as normal. Oh and on that note I realise science and medicine has overcome certain aspects of these but our ability to do so still doesn't mean it comes close to being natural for humans.

The trans debate to me is just as simple, I support their right to exist and have rights but under no circumstances do I agree with members of the SS trans activism brigade about the depth of those rights. I agree with the issues Bill Maher raised in the video, in essence to me it is wrong to believe this is something so simple and straight forward that it can and should be allowed to be done quickly or by anyone especially impressionable youngsters. I believe that until you've fully transitioned you shouldn't be allowed to use women only spaces, female jails, etc. I also believe it is reasonable to expect that men who transition to not be allowed to compete against women in sport, at least until more research is done.

As for this pronouns crap, I really couldn't give a flying fuck.
 
Wij

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Scouse said:
They're not.

You're either misunderstanding the argument or straw-manning. They're saying sexual preference of any kind can be subject to learned bias.


Or a simple sexual preference. But if it is rooted in racism - that could be (is likely to be) a learned preference.

So far, so uncontroversial. But feel free to set this aside if it's a red line for you. We can agree to disagree? - because as far as I'm concerned it's a distraction from the next bit:


It could be. It could easily be a learned preference.

If you grow up being (prejudicially) taught that men sucking other men's cocks is icky and wrong, then you can incorporate that into your sexual preferences and that could easily be enough to ensure you don't act on any of those impulses, even if your natural inclination in an unbiased world would have been to do so.


If you struggle with the racism bit lets ignore that entire half of the post and just look at the trans/gay bit. Because your sexuality can well be in part learned - so that makes the "please check if you're prejudiced" ask is a reasonable question.

I've been asked that question by a gay man more than once. Why don't you want to suck my cock? Most of the time they were very respectful, but probably they wouldn't bother starting such a discussion if they didn't think there was an outside chance that I might be curious enough to go home with them. One time it was outright harassment.

But I'm a big boy, and I can deal with that line of questioning. Are lesbians not able to? All the lesbians I've ever known have been more socially capable than me and would have dealt with that situation relatively easily.

Or, in your eyes (because you seem to be focussing narrowly only on lesbians, rather than the full spectra of situations where that sort of conversation happens), are women so weak that they can't rebuff people and call them out if they're being dickheads?
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You can nitpick all you like but there's thousands of lesbians out there who were outraged at her comments. Particularly in light of the fact that it was in response to the BBC article about lesbians being pressured into sex with penis-havers. Sure they are free to turn it down but they face 'cancellation' to give it the modern term. I'm not making up outrage on their behalf. It's out there, feel free to search for it and feel free to stop telling me, and more importantly lesbians, that they are wrong about it.
 
Scouse

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Wij said:
You can nitpick all you like but there's thousands of lesbians out there who were outraged at her comments. Particularly in light of the fact that it was in response to the BBC article about lesbians being pressured into sex with penis-havers. Sure they are free to turn it down but they face 'cancellation' to give it the modern term. I'm not making up outrage on their behalf. It's out there, feel free to search for it and feel free to stop telling me, and more importantly lesbians, that they are wrong about it.
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1) Who gives a fuck who's outraged. Fucking snowflakes.
2) The pressure point? I've already addressed - tell people to fuck off if you don't like it - it's a non-issue.
3) Oh noes! They're cancelled are they? I thought that it didn't exist? Are they outraged and want to cancel the trans? Fucking culture war twattery - man the fuck up.
4) I'm not telling anyone anything. It's up to lesbians who they sleep with. If a small subset of them are getting fucked off because they can't deal with trans people saying "wanna try my dick" then I don't care. Man. The. Fuck. Up.

:)

Edit: And the outrage 99% of this small subset of lesbians (always the lesbos eh?!) might be feeling is because they've read some shit on the internet about how they're shit and they're outraged about it. Not because it's happening to them regularly in real life.

IF they're fucked off, maybe they should get the fuck off twitter and stop getting outraged at the "make people outraged" platform?
 
Wij

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Tom said:
Then presenters need to stop asking if women can have a penis, because it's obviously a stupid loaded question.
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And yet people still keep responding that they can. Meaning males dressed up.
 
Wij

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Scouse said:
1) Who gives a fuck who's outraged. Fucking snowflakes.
2) The pressure point? I've already addressed - tell people to fuck off if you don't like it - it's a non-issue.
3) Oh noes! They're cancelled are they? I thought that it didn't exist? Are they outraged and want to cancel the trans? Fucking culture war twattery - man the fuck up.
4) I'm not telling anyone anything. It's up to lesbians who they sleep with. If a small subset of them are getting fucked off because they can't deal with trans people saying "wanna try my dick" then I don't care. Man. The. Fuck. Up.

:)

Edit: And the outrage 99% of this small subset of lesbians (always the lesbos eh?!) might be feeling is because they've read some shit on the internet about how they're shit and they're outraged about it. Not because it's happening to them regularly in real life.

IF they're fucked off, maybe they should get the fuck off twitter and stop getting outraged at the "make people outraged" platform?
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Dismissing the feelings of women to accommodate the feelings of men is so on point for this conversation.
 
Scouse

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Wij said:
Dismissing the feelings of women to accommodate the feelings of men is so on point for this conversation.
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You're wilfully missing the point - anyone can ask anyone if they'd like to fuck.

Trans people men can ask lesbians.
Lesbians can ask straight women.
Gay men can ask me, repeatedly :eek:

You are making this about "women being oppressed and their feelings being overridden" - but that's a crock of shit. Utter bullshit.

This is about normal human behaviour - regardless of who feels outraged about what. You want to ban trans people from acting like everyone else acts - because you hate them.
 
Wij

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Scouse said:
You're wilfully missing the point - anyone can ask anyone if they'd like to fuck.

Trans people men can ask lesbians.
Lesbians can ask straight women.
Gay men can ask me, repeatedly :eek:

You are making this about "women being oppressed and their feelings being overridden" - but that's a crock of shit. Utter bullshit.

This is about normal human behaviour - regardless of who feels outraged about what. You want to ban trans people from acting like everyone else acts - because you hate them.
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No, I am saying that the way Stonewall talk about the issues really pisses off a lot of people, mainly gay and lesbian who they are supposed to represent. It actually does whether you like it or not.
 
Scouse

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Wij said:
No, I am saying that the way Stonewall talk about the issues really pisses off a lot of people, mainly gay and lesbian who they are supposed to represent. It actually does whether you like it or not.
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1) Who cares - Stonewall have been pissing off people since day 0. It's kind of their thing.
2) They represent non-standard sexualities - that includes trans. LBGTQ+ (I don't know what "amazing" is supposed to mean (that's the "+" I understand).
3) Who cares? - The real-life situations I described above are the, you know, real life situations. The rest is just twitter anger.

If gay and lesbian people dislike trans people and are getting angry at stonewall supporting them all that shows is that gay and lesbian people can be just as intolerant cunts as straight people were about gays and lesbians a while back. (Of course, lesbians have always had an easier ride of it from men - because, well, lesbians). But gay men really were on the wrong end of a kicking because they wanted to ask people out that they weren't "supposed" to - so they should remember that.

This is people whining because they don't want real equality. And equality being exactly what I described:

Trans people men can ask lesbians.
Lesbians can ask straight women.
Gay men can ask me, repeatedly :eek:
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Anyone can ask anyone out. If people don't like that then "tough titties".

This anger is mostly on the internet. In real life a trans person asking someone else for sex isn't something that hurts people. And real life is all that really matters.
 
Wij

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Omg. It’s not about gay and lesbian people disliking trans people. They don’t like being told their sexuality is prejudiced.

But of course they aren’t allowed to think that because that isn’t the scouse-approved interpretation of what she said.
 
Raven

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It's all a load of shit. There are far more important things to worry about than what people have/want/aspire to have between their legs.
 
old.Osy

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Raven said:
It's all a load of shit. There are far more important things to worry about than what people have/want/aspire to have between their legs.
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Oh absolutely. I probably get more brow-raisy with the uber drivers.

Thing is, Uber drivers don't encroach on freedom of speech, nor do they cry for attention and special rights.
 
Raven

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You're picking the extreme. Obviously males, transitioned to female, shouldn't compete vs natural-born females, for all sorts of physiological reasons.

But 99.9% of trans people couldn't give a fuck about competitive sports, they just want to be comfortable with themselves. Why is someone else's happiness some sort of issue for people?

You're, essentially, the flip side of the bigot coin.
 
Scouse

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Wij said:
They don’t like being told their sexuality is prejudiced.
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You mean, they don't like being asked if they've ever considered if sexuality may have an element of prejudice.


If I can be asked that, why can't they?
 
Wij

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Raven said:
But 99.9% of trans people couldn't give a fuck about competitive sports, they just want to be comfortable with themselves. Why is someone else's happiness some sort of issue for people?
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Citation needed on that figure because an awful lot of them seem to be outraged that the cheating has been prevented.
 
Wij

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Scouse said:
You mean, they don't like being asked if they've ever considered if sexuality may have an element of prejudice.


If I can be asked that, why can't they?
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You are trying to tell them how to think again.
 
Scouse

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Wij said:
But they are still asking for those rights. And that’s just one sport in one country. Your point was what were they asking for.
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I tiny minority of asshats are asking for those rights.

The vast majority aren't.

Twitter and it's outrageous monetisation algorithms make up the rest of it.
 
Wij

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Scouse said:
It inevitably starts with @Wij posts twitter shit from leftwing website that only exists by the amount of noise it generates.

How is this not just a fucking twitterstorm @Wij?
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Because I could post countless examples of people being outraged at this sensible decision and you would write every one off as an outlier.
 
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