Is this what society has come to?

[Wij]

What would have been "hilarious teen comedy as man pretends to be woman to join college sorority" in the 1980s, is now a real thing, and honestly as creepy as fuck

What did Artemis Langford do? University of Wyoming sorority lawsuit against trans member explained

Seven women from a sorority house at UW, Cheyenne, have filed a lawsuit against the university for allowing Artemis Langford, a transgender woman, back into their local chapter.

www.sportskeeda.com

He's put on lipstick and grown his hair. What more does he need to do to be able to sit in the women's showers?

(Also, if anyone does think this is just a creep taking advantage, please remember this is an outlier and never happens.)

 

[Embattle]

Man abducted and sexually assaulted schoolgirl while dressed as woman

Andrew Miller, also known as Amy George, sexually assaulted the primary aged girl for 27 hours after taking her to his home.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[old.Osy]

That's not a position I hold, so no, we do not agree.

You do not agree we need to be better prepared to tackle mental health issues, and educate on this topic? You do not agree this is reaching wtf levels?

 

[Wij]

Man abducted and sexually assaulted schoolgirl while dressed as woman

Andrew Miller, also known as Amy George, sexually assaulted the primary aged girl for 27 hours after taking her to his home.

www.bbc.co.uk

Another total perv.

 

[Tom]

You do not agree we need to be better prepared to tackle mental health issues, and educate on this topic? You do not agree this is reaching wtf levels?

No, but if you suggested we're undergoing a moral panic, I think I'd agree with that.

 

[old.Osy]

No, but if you suggested we're undergoing a moral panic, I think I'd agree with that.

I never mentioned morality. I'm not a prude, and I could give a rats ass about anyone's sexuality or how they choose to employ it, bar the obvious limits.

However, when part of your agenda starts to infringe on how I should act or say, or when it generates pain and suffering to others, then I take issue.

I think you bought in a little too deep in the woke thing, Mr. Tom.

 

[Tom]

You're suggesting transexual people may have mental health issues. It's the same moral panic that infects those who think "the gays" are after children.

And I'm quite happy to be "woke", the alternative is to be ignorant and hateful.

I think you bought in a little too deep in the woke thing, Mr. Tom.

I think you bought a little too deep in the "what shall we distract everyone with while we take all their rights and money from their pockets" tactics of the twats who claim to lead us.

 

[Yoni]

(Intersex is a more complex topic where there needs to be a much bigger discussion so not relevant to my comments below).

I do not think that it is ignorant or hateful to question Tom, and I do not think that Osy is suggesting that we put electrical currents to peoples genitals to "convert" them to their biological pigeon hole, just that there should be aconversation or reflection. Calling people ignorant and hateful is stopping the debate after all how do you know as a biological male what it is to be a woman?

Whilst I am feeling brave I also do not want to be referred to as a CIS woman because I was born with a vagina it is just not ok and diminishes my rights. Interestingly when biological women state that they do not want to be defined as CIS why do they get shouted down (normally by biological men) mansplaning to me that this is just how it is now and I should put up or shut up.

 

[Wij]

Whilst I am feeling brave I also do not want to be referred to as a CIS woman because I was born with a vagina it is just not ok and diminishes my rights. Interestingly when biological women state that they do not want to be defined as CIS why do they get shouted down (normally by biological men) mansplaning to me that this is just how it is now and I should put up or shut up.

Total agree. Women are not a sub-class of their own sex who need to accommodate the much more oppressed other subclass of women (men).

 

[Scouse]

What would have been "hilarious teen comedy as man pretends to be woman to join college sorority" in the 1980s, is now a real thing, and honestly as creepy as fuck

I miss John Belushi


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jd_DvB-jjs



Anyway. The problem there is single-sex spaces in educational settings are still a thing. I think they're a disastrous religious hangover and create unhealthy minds. Having been to one - I'd absolutely ban boys and girls schools. And I'd ban single sex wards in hospitals too.

Women's refuges - yep. Maybe have womans / trans / men's refuges. They need special treatment because of what they've been through and where they're at mentally.

Either way. Apart from a smattering of arseholes and some obvious sticking points I think moral panic is absolutely an apt description. There's bigger shit to be worried about.

But yeah. It would still make a great film IMO.

 

[Wij]

I miss John Belushi


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jd_DvB-jjs



Anyway. The problem there is single-sex spaces in educational settings are still a thing. I think they're a disastrous religious hangover and create unhealthy minds. Having been to one - I'd absolutely ban boys and girls schools. And I'd ban single sex wards in hospitals too.

Women's refuges - yep. Maybe have womans / trans / men's refuges. They need special treatment because of what they've been through and where they're at mentally.

Either way. Apart from a smattering of arseholes and some obvious sticking points I think moral panic is absolutely an apt description. There's bigger shit to be worried about.

But yeah. It would still make a great film IMO.

Basically, apart from a few exceptions, you are saying women should no longer expect spaces away from males. That's a thing of the past now.

Thanks for putting women in their place.

 

[Scouse]

Basically, apart from a few exceptions, you are saying women should no longer expect spaces away from males. That's a thing of the past now.

Two words for consideration: "Golf clubs".

No. I don't think single-sex spaces are healthy for men or women. Certainly I passonately believe we should ban them in early years educational and medical spaces.

 

[Wij]

Two words for consideration: "Golf clubs".

No. I don't think single-sex spaces are healthy for men or women. Certainly I passonately believe we should ban them in early years educational and medical spaces.

Golf clubs aren't changing rooms or toilets etc... Comparing spaces where women might be undressing or peeing to ones where they will be talking or drinking is not serious.

 

[Scouse]

Golf clubs aren't changing rooms or toilets etc...

Neither are schools or hospitals.

Painting all women as desparately downtrodden victims does them no favours. And where are the "male only" spaces?

Unisex bogs aren't a problem either btw. And neither are mixed-sex changing rooms - they have these newfangled inventions called "cubicles" you know.

Abused people (not just women) need special attention. The rest of the time people can just fuck off and get on with it - it's better and healthier that we don't have single-sex spaces.

 

[Wij]

Neither are schools or hospitals.

Painting all women as desparately downtrodden victims does them no favours. And where are the "male only" spaces?

Unisex bogs aren't a problem either btw. And neither are mixed-sex changing rooms - they have these newfangled inventions called "cubicles" you know.

Abused people (not just women) need special attention. The rest of the time people can just fuck off and get on with it - it's better and healthier that we don't have single-sex spaces.

There are male-only spaces. Bogs, changing rooms. Plenty.

Why are unisex bogs not a problem if men can now enter freely? How did you decide that wasn't a problem?

Many facilities don't have cubicles for changing rooms. They have open male spaces and open female spaces. You're happy for men just to elect which one they use? You're happy to make that decision on behalf of women?

Not to mention shower areas. They aren't all closed off single person spaces I'm afraid. Many women would rather not be confronted with erections whilst showering. You can call them whinging bitches all you like but it's not for you to decide.

 

[Scouse]

There's so much bullshit in that post it's difficult to know where to start.

So I won't.

But maybe you're right on showers. They're such a personal and private thing after you've been swimming:

Spoiler

I don't know, but I just can't stop myself having an erection when I camp next to the beach showers, waiting for an unsuspecting woman to come by.

 

[Wij]

There's obviously no expectation of privacy in an outdoor uncovered shower. Indoor ones in previously single-sex spaces where women could actually shower nude should they choose are different. You know that.

 

[DaGaffer]

I miss John Belushi


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jd_DvB-jjs



Anyway. The problem there is single-sex spaces in educational settings are still a thing. I think they're a disastrous religious hangover and create unhealthy minds. Having been to one - I'd absolutely ban boys and girls schools. And I'd ban single sex wards in hospitals too.

Women's refuges - yep. Maybe have womans / trans / men's refuges. They need special treatment because of what they've been through and where they're at mentally.

Either way. Apart from a smattering of arseholes and some obvious sticking points I think moral panic is absolutely an apt description. There's bigger shit to be worried about.

But yeah. It would still make a great film IMO.

You're mixing up a lot of stuff there. I completely agree about single sex schools, and I don't have a problem with shared changing rooms if they're designed properly, but if they're not, you can't just stuff trans people in there without consideration. And that leads to this case; the trans person was imposed on the sorority; they'd signed up for a single sex place and somebody else (the sorority's parent organisation it seems) just said "tough shit" and now they're living with a bloke who "get's visible erections through his leggings" while he's sat watching them.

I actually don't like the fraternity/sorority system; it seems to be chock full of elitist wankers in the main, but my personal disdain for them is not the point; it's that decisions are being made about people's living conditions by virtue signallers who don't have to live with the consequences.

 

[Yoni]

There's so much bullshit in that post it's difficult to know where to start.

So I won't.

But maybe you're right on showers. They're such a personal and private thing after you've been swimming:

Spoiler

I don't know, but I just can't stop myself having an erection when I camp next to the beach showers, waiting for an unsuspecting woman to come by.

sorry but nudity is not expected in outside showers as well you know oO

 

[Scouse]

There's obviously no expectation of privacy in an outdoor uncovered shower. Indoor ones in previously single-sex spaces where women could actually shower nude should they choose are different. You know that.

And you know they generally don't. Quick poll of the woman in the house say "almost none" shower nude. So those almost none can fuck off as far as I'm concerned. We should bitch it all off and put in cubicles.

Either way - I still don't care. We should be moving to a lot less single sex spaces.

Now, lets talk about the actual big issues - the ones you've steadfastly refused to address whilst focussing on showers and shitters instead - schools and hospitals.

Single sex schools should be banned. It brings up boys and girls away from each other and takes years of learning to interact correctly - all day, every day, away from each other - and they create certain types of people and I'd argue imbalanced people.

Single sex wards are awful. Men and women interact on hospital wards and the differences between us are a benefit to their wellbeing. This is something that multiple medical professionals have intimated to me - and it goes along with the single sex school thing. Men and women are supposed to be together.

The fact that it solves many of the the "trans problems" is just incidental as far as I'm concerned. It's just healthier all round.

 

[DaGaffer]

And you know they generally don't. Quick poll of the woman in the house say "almost none" shower nude. So those almost none can fuck off as far as I'm concerned. We should bitch it all off and put in cubicles.

Either way - I still don't care. We should be moving to a lot less single sex spaces.

Now, lets talk about the actual big issues - the ones you've steadfastly refused to address whilst focussing on showers and shitters instead - schools and hospitals.

Single sex schools should be banned. It brings up boys and girls away from each other and takes years of learning to interact correctly - all day, every day, away from each other - and they create certain types of people and I'd argue imbalanced people.

Single sex wards are awful. Men and women interact on hospital wards and the differences between us are a benefit to their wellbeing. This is something that multiple medical professionals have intimated to me - and it goes along with the single sex school thing. Men and women are supposed to be together.

The fact that it solves many of the the "trans problems" is just incidental as far as I'm concerned. It's just healthier all round.

No, you think they're the actually big issues, but they're not (wards are already mixed in Ireland and I'm betting on single sex schools going the way of the dodo in the next few years based on current trends), it's bogs and single sex living/sleeping spaces (including prisons!) that are the issue.

 

[Scouse]

You're mixing up a lot of stuff there. I completely agree about single sex schools, and I don't have a problem with shared changing rooms if they're designed properly, but if they're not, you can't just stuff trans people in there without consideration. And that leads to this case; the trans person was imposed on the sorority; they'd signed up for a single sex place and somebody else (the sorority's parent organisation it seems) just said "tough shit" and now they're living with a bloke who "get's visible erections through his leggings" while he's sat watching them.

I agree. But ban the single sex schools and single sex sorority shite, and we solve that problem.

I actually don't like the fraternity/sorority system; it seems to be chock full of elitist wankers in the main, but my personal disdain for them is not the point; it's that decisions are being made about people's living conditions by virtue signallers who don't have to live with the consequences.

Don't disagree here either. But there's a problem that needs solving - and my proposed solution solves not just this niche shitty trans asshattery - it solves a much wider religious-hangover that much greater numbers of people are suffering from.

Focussing on the desires of 0.5% of the population when there's, for example, 700,000 schoolkids growing up in an abnormal sex-selected environment, and there's a solution that kills both of these things dead - to stop separating men and women.

Well, lets do that then?

 

[Scouse]

No, you think they're the actually big issues, but they're not (wards are already mixed in Ireland and I'm betting on single sex schools going the way of the dodo in the next few years based on current trends), it's bogs and single sex living/sleeping spaces (including prisons!) that are the issue.

Bogs aren't an issue. There's plenty of bogs that don't segregate and they work just fine.

Prisons I've already addressed - we don't have to accomodate the desires of our prisoners. So I'd have male, female and trans prisons. Job jobbed. And I'd also fix the bigger problem here too - that our prison populations are too large and too expensive and don't stop recidivism - so if we solve that then size (and expense) of the problem is massively reduced (and it's a niche argument again being used to address a wider societal "issue").

Single sex living/sleeping spaces? Other than prisons, or the aforementioned women's refuges (look up for the solution to that) - what other "single sex living/sleeping spaces" are you talking about?

If it's about the sorority shit? Put an end to it - by stopping segregation by sex. It's stupid anyway.

 

[Scouse]

No, you think they're the actually big issues, but they're not

Oh. And there's way more people at single-sex schools than there are "problem" trans people - so by any definition that's a bigger problem than the trans shit.

Numbers do actually matter.

 

[DaGaffer]

If it's about the sorority shit? Put an end to it - by stopping segregation by sex. It's stupid anyway.

No, it's stupid to you. It's not our job to impose on others who they share their home with. If you sign up to live in a mixed environment that's fine, if you sign up to live in a single sex environment because that's your choice (or if you only want to live with people of the same colour or religion for that matter) not ours because we think it's stupid. "Public" spaces are shared, private spaces can be shared, but it shouldn't be, can't be, a right. And in this particular case, women want to live with other women and a bloke with a dick and lipstick isn't a woman just because of feelings. This is what it all comes back to; we're all being asked to buy into a shared delusion and it's not working.

 

[Scouse]

No, it's stupid to you. It's not our job to impose on others who they share their home with. If you sign up to live in a mixed environment that's fine, if you sign up to live in a single sex environment because that's your choice (or if you only want to live with people of the same colour or religion for that matter) not ours because we think it's stupid. "Public" spaces are shared, private spaces can be shared, but it shouldn't be, can't be, a right. And in this particular case, women want to live with other women and a bloke with a dick and lipstick isn't a woman just because of feelings.

Define home please @DaGaffer. We still on sorority shit?

If it's privately paid for - people can do what the fuck they like. If you want to pay for a black-only house then fair enough. I don't give a fuck. If that ever existed it'd obviously be a house full of cunts - but I still don't give a fuck. If it's your money, then it's your choice.

If you're paying an organisation to give you a single-sex space and they allow blokes in, then stop paying that organisation and get a refund. That should be the end of it. Government shouldn't be involved. The organisation that's taking the cash could easily spin up a private trans dorm. (Of course, I still think it's dumb, but hey ho - freedom and all that).

But government funded things? Like UK schools? Nah, I'm not having it. We should be fucking off single-sex spaces and single-sex schools. If it's a private fee-paying school they should have to pay tax (which there's clamour about anyway) - so we don't subsidise. If rich people want their kids to be maladjusted arseholes (even more than they already are) then that's their right. But we shouldn't be subsidising and we shouldn't be segregating.

Bogs, changing rooms, schools. There's loads of examples where this is utterly uncontroversial and works abso-fucking-lutely fine, thankyouverymuch.

This is what it all comes back to; we're all being asked to buy into a shared delusion and it's not working.

I'm not buying into any delusion. I'm just not buying into the moral panic. Other than sport and prisons - (which are easy wins - segregation and "tough titties, you're a biological man so you can't play for the woman's England team any more than a person in a wheelchair can't run a mountain marathon, sorry"...) - these are all very easily solveable "problems".


Edit:

"Public" spaces are shared, private spaces can be shared, but it shouldn't be, can't be, a right

I think that about single-sex spaces.

Hostels? Yeah, we can fund that. There are exceptions. But single-sex spaces in general shouldn't be a right. Fund it yourself if for whatever reason you want to be unhealthily segregated by sex. But society as a whole shouldn't have to put up with that. We're supposed to be equal.

 

[DaGaffer]

Define home please @DaGaffer. We still on sorority shit?

If it's privately paid for - people can do what the fuck they like. If you want to pay for a black-only house then fair enough. I don't give a fuck. If that ever existed it'd obviously be a house full of cunts - but I still don't give a fuck. If it's your money, then it's your choice.

If you're paying an organisation to give you a single-sex space and they allow blokes in, then stop paying that organisation and get a refund. That should be the end of it. Government shouldn't be involved. The organisation that's taking the cash could easily spin up a private trans dorm. (Of course, I still think it's dumb, but hey ho - freedom and all that).

But government funded things? Like UK schools? Nah, I'm not having it. We should be fucking off single-sex spaces and single-sex schools. If it's a private fee-paying school they should have to pay tax (which there's clamour about anyway) - so we don't subsidise. If rich people want their kids to be maladjusted arseholes (even more than they already are) then that's their right. But we shouldn't be subsidising and we shouldn't be segregating.

Bogs, changing rooms, schools. There's loads of examples where this is utterly uncontroversial and works abso-fucking-lutely fine, thankyouverymuch.



I'm not buying into any delusion. I'm just not buying into the moral panic. Other than sport and prisons - (which are easy wins - segregation and "tough titties, you're a biological man so you can't play for the woman's England team any more than a person in a wheelchair can't run a mountain marathon, sorry"...) - these are all very easily solveable "problems".


Edit:

I think that about single-sex spaces.

Hostels? Yeah, we can fund that. There are exceptions. But single-sex spaces in general shouldn't be a right. Fund it yourself if for whatever reason you want to be unhealthily segregated by sex. But society as a whole shouldn't have to put up with that. We're supposed to be equal.

You do understand that a sorority isn't free? They pay for that accommodation. That's actually why they can sue, they signed up for something they're not getting.

And as for "these are all very easily solveable problems"; then why aren't they solved? Not in sport or prisons as far as I'm aware.

 

[Scouse]

They're not solved because we've got to go through the standard moral panic shite before we actually decide what to do and just bloody do it.

Like "let gays into the army".

Oh, OK then.

 

[Wij]

You do understand that a sorority isn't free? They pay for that accommodation. That's actually why they can sue, they signed up for something they're not getting.

And as for "these are all very easily solveable problems"; then why aren't they solved? Not in sport or prisons as far as I'm aware.

Not solved at all:


View: https://twitter.com/ithompsonfdn/status/1659571487421132805?s=61&t=iv1E1O7hVRuRm0TFdyUzyw

 

[Embattle]

Always good:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMBzfUj5zsg