Hugmeh-Lust For Power The Movie
- Thread starter GrIrcSpammer
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A quick calculation can show which does more damage, hamstring chain + garrote or hamstring + hamstring chain.
For simplicity assume 100 base damage as an average for both main and offhand. Garrote has a GR of 0.75 and the hamstring chain has 1.15-1.33-1.32 with a 2% and 5% abs debuff, right? Again for simplicity lets assume the circumstances are such that the style will do exactly GR*base as its style bonus. So garrote will do +75, leaper +115 and so on.
A 2% abs debuff on a 10% abs target (leather) leaves 8% abs, a stacking 5% debuff leaves 3% abs. Abs in daoc works to directly lower any damage by the given %, so any hit that happens before hamstring chain will be reduced by 10%, any hit after leaper reduced by 8% and any hit after rs by 3%.
Assuming all strikes hit:
Defi's way: 2*(200+115)*0.90 + (200+133)*0.90 + (200+132)*0.92 = 1172 dmg
Other way: (200+115)*0.90 + (200+133)*0.90 + (200+132)*0.92 + (200+75)*0.97 = 1155 dmg
If you do the same against plate it's 861 vs 854.
From a pure dmg pov, defis way does more damage. He also gets more defense bonus since he gets the hamstring bonus for two rounds and less end used. However Defi's way has a lower chance of working since he has to land 4 styles to finish the debuff chain while the other way requires only 3 styles to land. Landing 3 styles in a row is always easier than landing 4 styles in a row.
For the record, defensive bonus ONLY increases chance to miss so you won't increase the chance of chaining more hamstrings, but misses are still less damage taken.
For simplicity assume 100 base damage as an average for both main and offhand. Garrote has a GR of 0.75 and the hamstring chain has 1.15-1.33-1.32 with a 2% and 5% abs debuff, right? Again for simplicity lets assume the circumstances are such that the style will do exactly GR*base as its style bonus. So garrote will do +75, leaper +115 and so on.
A 2% abs debuff on a 10% abs target (leather) leaves 8% abs, a stacking 5% debuff leaves 3% abs. Abs in daoc works to directly lower any damage by the given %, so any hit that happens before hamstring chain will be reduced by 10%, any hit after leaper reduced by 8% and any hit after rs by 3%.
Assuming all strikes hit:
Defi's way: 2*(200+115)*0.90 + (200+133)*0.90 + (200+132)*0.92 = 1172 dmg
Other way: (200+115)*0.90 + (200+133)*0.90 + (200+132)*0.92 + (200+75)*0.97 = 1155 dmg
If you do the same against plate it's 861 vs 854.
From a pure dmg pov, defis way does more damage. He also gets more defense bonus since he gets the hamstring bonus for two rounds and less end used. However Defi's way has a lower chance of working since he has to land 4 styles to finish the debuff chain while the other way requires only 3 styles to land. Landing 3 styles in a row is always easier than landing 4 styles in a row.
For the record, defensive bonus ONLY increases chance to miss so you won't increase the chance of chaining more hamstrings, but misses are still less damage taken.
Puppet
Part of the furniture
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SethNaket said:
I sincerly doubt this part. A caster with his ABS-buff down is getting hit for more then 10% more. Likewise assassins should know by now that landing Rib Seperation doesnt mean '8% more damage'. Its waaaaaaaaaay more then that.
Hugmeh often got off 2-3 styles, then got blocked, evaded, etc.
Getting off 4 styles in a row like in your example above hardly ever happened. Meaning the 2nd way would produce more damage in most cases.
Maybe you evade more when using styles with high defence bonus, i don't know. My zerker still parries whether i'm spamming DF or taunt.
Even my gimpy skald parries quite a bit and i'm spamming provoke all day.
Back on topic.
It was an ok vid with nice editing and some good fights, but as already mentioned, there was too much duelling.
I like 1on1 fights, but when you have lots of others standing around watching or duelling others, it gets a bit artificial.
I would have liked more sneaky stuff.
Getting off 4 styles in a row like in your example above hardly ever happened. Meaning the 2nd way would produce more damage in most cases.
Maybe you evade more when using styles with high defence bonus, i don't know. My zerker still parries whether i'm spamming DF or taunt.
Even my gimpy skald parries quite a bit and i'm spamming provoke all day.
Back on topic.
It was an ok vid with nice editing and some good fights, but as already mentioned, there was too much duelling.
I like 1on1 fights, but when you have lots of others standing around watching or duelling others, it gets a bit artificial.
I would have liked more sneaky stuff.
Vodkafairy
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didnt seem to be very hard to land the full hamstring chain for my ns when i respecced to cs, but about the defence bonus - i really dont know if it works.
how about you do the community a favor puppet and test it on gorre? do a 1k round evadetest while spamming taunt (med defence penalty) and detaunts (med/high defence bonus) - would be interesting to see the results.
how about you do the community a favor puppet and test it on gorre? do a 1k round evadetest while spamming taunt (med defence penalty) and detaunts (med/high defence bonus) - would be interesting to see the results.
If defensive bonuses would give you more evades, then defensive penalties ( taunt mostly) would reduce your defenses.kivik said:
I'd pity the main tank who would never get an evade/parry/block in cause all he does is spam taunt on those high purple mobs.
Danita
I wasn't the only one, but I'm using it as the strongest example of it not working that way. When I'm tanking the dragon I always evade about 4-5 times with my hero, all I use there is taunt.Kinag said:You're speaking of PvE though, considering you mentioned high purple mobs and taunt.
They're unsure if it works in RvR, they're quite sure it works in PvE
As for rvr:
What about Vamps that rely on taunt, provoke? Garrote spammers? don't they ever evade/parry/block?
Ppl seem to forget that the Daoc engine can be really streaky. For the most part here they rely on perception. When you want to see something, you will find it and ignore the incidences to the contrary.
From all the tests about to hit and also some of defensive bonuses you can make reasonably accurate estimates on how it probably all works.
To make claims it's not so, you have to bring very strong evidence to the contrary and not rely on your own perception.
I'm making all these statements with the aid of the tests I do strongly remember (particularly the to hit tests), but I also vaguely recall a defensive test on VN not so long agao ( might be within a year). I try to extrapolate their date and trying to look at all what's been said from all angles, hoping to find any inconsitencies. I might be wrong, but convince me with strong hard data, not perceptions that contradict the evidence so far.
Danita
miracle-mm
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2/5
Matriarch|Sneakers
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Nice editing, but the fights wasn't that exciting, not sure why but just didn't make me tick. Think what illu said was quiet accurate though.
Keep 'em comming
Keep 'em comming
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