Ho ho ho Assange being dragged out of Ecuadorian Embassy?

[Mabs]

oh yeah? what did he do?

got in the way of the US of A, and now hes going to pay the price...apparently

 

[TdC]

oh shit, yeah I was forgetting. sorry.

 

[Kryten]

Not sure how best to answer.
Best I can come up with is "would you expect someone leaking that sort of confidential information anywhere to be given a pat on the back and "Ah, what a scamp, never mind eh!""
I'm certainly not sure what he was expecting because the best he could hope for was some sort of martyrdom? (not sure if that's the right description for someone sacrificing themselves doing what they believe is best?)

 

[Mabs]

there is a thin line between "goverment secrets" and "cover up"...

 

[BloodOmen]

The USA always does it tho, its like when Garry Mckinnon "Hacked" nasa (he basically got onto the computers due to piss poor security, did nothing but look for photos of aliens) then magically the USA fabricated him doing hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of damage.. just from looking for photos.

Its this simple

Make the USA look stupid or like cunts (which lets be fair isnt exactly hard) and they will throw their toys out of the pram and do everything above and below their power to get you extradited to the USA, it wouldnt at all surprise me if they havent black mailed the uk and sweden into it because lets face it, going back to the cables assange leaked you can clearly see they would do anything and black mail anyone to get what they want.

 

[Kryten]

With all due respect though, are you, or anyone else on the planet other than the US government, able to prove that? So much of it is "gut feeling" "instinct" or more importantly "bandwagon jumping" that for all you know he could have been photoshopping pictures of Hilary Clinton attaching herself anally to Arnie in NASA's files and emailing them to every senator in the country. Same as Assange. So many people are automatically assuming this rape/sexual assault thing is political bollocks - but do any of you, or anyone else actually know?
No, didn't think so. We're all capable of making our own minds up and jumping on the bandwagon we feel is best.
I'm off to make a tin-foil hat and made a bomb shelter in the garden.

 

[TdC]

thing is, governments generally go by the rule of "you've only done something bad if someone finds out (and tells a bunch of people)". A whistle-blower informing an organisation like Wikileaks is already trying to protect himself. Assange is himself not the person who disclosed the secrets originally, but he is in an organisation that does bring them to a wide audience.

fwiw, I believe that governments and private organisations who decry Wikileaks for exposing their secrets do so because there is some really dirty shit in them there secrets. I mean, just look at that Strat-For stuff.

Anyway, I personally feel that whistle-blowers should be all out protected. They seem to have found their consciences in a time where people either don't give a shit or are bought off with money, power, women, drugs, whatever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whistleblower

 

[BloodOmen]

With all due respect though, are you, or anyone else on the planet other than the US government, able to prove that? So much of it is "gut feeling" "instinct" or more importantly "bandwagon jumping" that for all you know he could have been photoshopping pictures of Hilary Clinton attaching herself anally to Arnie in NASA's files and emailing them to every senator in the country. Same as Assange. So many people are automatically assuming this rape/sexual assault thing is political bollocks - but do any of you, or anyone else actually know?
No, didn't think so. We're all capable of making our own minds up and jumping on the bandwagon we feel is best.
I'm off to make a tin-foil hat and made a bomb shelter in the garden.

No, but then again it hasn't been proven either, they didn't actually provide any evidence of the damage Mckinnon caused they just stated that he did (as far as i'm aware) it was used as one of the main argument points to have him extradited.. now i'm no computer genius but even I know browsing through pc's for photos does not cause thousands of dollars worth of damage, i'd wager the computers themselves probably didn't even cost what they claimed he caused in damage.

Christ even specialist UK investigators that deal in the most serious internet crime said he didn't/wouldn't have caused that much damage and that he should have been trialed in the UK.

 

[TdC]

So many people are automatically assuming this rape/sexual assault thing is political bollocks - but do any of you, or anyone else actually know?

no, we don't know for sure. however: the statements of the ladies, and their behaviour up to the point they accuse Assange, and Assange's own statements do not add up.

I hope the truth will come out. Personally I am in the "he didn't do it" camp. Actually, I don't even care if he did or didn't, because the entire situation and especially the role the US is playing is completely farcical.

On the other hand...Bradley Manning has been held without trial for over 800 days now, in the land of the free. So if the US do actually get their mitts on Assange (nb without his own country lifting a finger to help him) odds are he will never stand trial and we will simply never see him again.

 

[Mabs]

With all due respect though, are you, or anyone else on the planet other than the US government, able to prove that? So much of it is "gut feeling" "instinct" or more importantly "bandwagon jumping" that for all you know he could have been photoshopping pictures of Hilary Clinton attaching herself anally to Arnie in NASA's files and emailing them to every senator in the country. Same as Assange. So many people are automatically assuming this rape/sexual assault thing is political bollocks - but do any of you, or anyone else actually know?
No, didn't think so. We're all capable of making our own minds up and jumping on the bandwagon we feel is best.
I'm off to make a tin-foil hat and made a bomb shelter in the garden.

i dont spend my weekends waterboarding people.. so i think ill trust my instincts over their public face.. thanks anyway

 

[Kryten]

Mabs: you lie, you've admitted your sexual deviances before!

The Bradley Manning case is certainly reaming with bollocks as is much of the US judicial system. No doubt this would be similar should they get their hands on it. It's all too far gone to do anything about other than whine.

 

[Jupitus]

tbh I have no idea how it will happen. perhaps on a screen? or acting out charades using a hallway full of mirrors?


that last idea would be pretty cool tbh

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl3IW-pPMyU

 

[Kryten]

"Ooooh, a scythe!"

 

[Embattle]

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/16/opinion/sifry-assange-ecuador/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

 

[Mabs]

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/16/opinion/sifry-assange-ecuador/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

lol @ government mouthpiece

i feel bill hicks quotes are required

 

[MYstIC G]

The moment we breach the Vienna Convention in any way, shape or form we total fuck our own security services operating from our embassies abroad right in the arse by making them fair game. The Yanks are pressuring us to go in but it will be a total disaster for Britain if we do. Arresting him inside the embassy or at the airport when he will likely be under diplomatic immunity will make no difference, it will breach Vienna and there will be a price for us to pay.

That won't happen, they'll simply remove the Embassy status.

 

[TdC]

erm, and that is not foolish in which way exactly?

 

[Punishment]

Can't believe this is still going on, knowing the US he will just show up in an alleyway after a "mugging" afew years down the line

 

[Embattle]

erm, and that is not foolish in which way exactly?

It won't happen for all the previous reasons stated, plus it would match the level of hypocrisy shown by a person making a speech about freedoms etc from inside Ecuador.

 

[TdC]

indeed, and the UK shows no hypocrisy at all ofc. I mean, they've actually been growled at by Russia, known to all as a freedom lover's paradise, as the UK is keeping Russian citizens from them in much the same way that Ecuador is harboring Julian Assange.

 

[Embattle]

That is a bit like comparing a rubber tree to a banana tree, they are both trees but totally different. In reality the cases that have seen extradition refused in a court of law against Russia have often been down to political motivation factors for the requests, fair trial and use of torture aspects. In Assange's case it is the opposite that saw his cases fail, unless you know something about Sweden I don't since I'm sure most the Nordic countries are fairly stable and safe.

 

[Zenith]

The "trial" of Assange is seen as a transparant judicial scandal by the majority of the Swedish population, as I've seen it. There is evidence that the two women did not see the sexual activities as rape (as in texts, twitter and facebook messages) but then quite appruptly changed both their stories. This lead to the charges being dropped by the first judge. This was later appealed by the joint lawyer of the women, and Assange is now requested for a hearing. That's all I know so far.

The Nordic countries have all a history of ver rigid and stable judicial systems. However, the "trial" against Assange reeked from the begining.

 

[AngelHeal]

It's pretty anoying that we will never know what really goes on...

what assange says he was putting online, what he actually did put online, what he was holding back for leverage..
what conversations USA had with britain / sweden, what their leverage was..

Why equador, why they chose to accept him, why the other south american nations say they back up equador..

and whatever comes next..

One thing is sure, powers come and go....

 

[old.Tohtori]

One thing is sure, powers come and go....

But tits are for life?

 

[Tom]

Part of me wonders if that crazy Argie president hasn't asked the Ecuadorian president for a favour, just to annoy the UK government.

 

[AngelHeal]

But tits are for life?

Ofcourse mate, what else would be left otherwise?

 

[TdC]

That is a bit like comparing a rubber tree to a banana tree, they are both trees but totally different. In reality the cases that have seen extradition refused in a court of law against Russia have often been down to political motivation factors for the requests, fair trial and use of torture aspects. In Assange's case it is the opposite that saw his cases fail, unless you know something about Sweden I don't since I'm sure most the Nordic countries are fairly stable and safe.

bit like what you said imo. also, there are some quite interesting things about Sweden if you take time to dig them up. my personal bottom line is that the UK will certainly NOT court international diplomatic scandal and spend in excess of a million pounds of taxpayer money to faff about with a guy who is simply requested to appear in Sweden to talk at a hearing. that stuff just doesn't happen, ergo what is going on is a sack of grade AAA horse shit tbh.

The "trial" of Assange is seen as a transparant judicial scandal by the majority of the Swedish population, as I've seen it. There is evidence that the two women did not see the sexual activities as rape (as in texts, twitter and facebook messages) but then quite appruptly changed both their stories. This lead to the charges being dropped by the first judge. This was later appealed by the joint lawyer of the women, and Assange is now requested for a hearing. That's all I know so far.

The Nordic countries have all a history of ver rigid and stable judicial systems. However, the "trial" against Assange reeked from the begining.

what he said really.

 

[Embattle]

bit like what you said imo. also, there are some quite interesting things about Sweden if you take time to dig them up. my personal bottom line is that the UK will certainly NOT court international diplomatic scandal and spend in excess of a million pounds of taxpayer money to faff about with a guy who is simply requested to appear in Sweden to talk at a hearing. that stuff just doesn't happen, ergo what is going on is a sack of grade AAA horse shit tbh.

You're entitled to your opinion but it isn't the same. In the end, as stated many times the act was never really going to be used but the UK government is still going to extradite him either way due to the legal requirement to do so at the moment. I'm sure the messiah will probably treat us to a few more sermons before that however and increase his news presence to front page again which is a shame since I would quite happily ignore him.

 

[TdC]

Then why did they mention it? What you are handily glossing over is that William Hague did threaten the diplomatic status of a foreign power's embassy. Against the wishes of his own foreign office lawyers.

oh, don't get me wrong: I personally think JA is a complete dick. That he is one doesn't give any country leave to mess with him like has been happening though. In case you were forgetting he's not charged with anything, and yet has been hounded, harassed and house-arrested for over two years. Tbh I used to think that shit like that only happened in Myan..*cough* Burma, China and other such idyllic places around the globe. When it happens in a country I happen to hold a passport to, I feel rather unwell.

Tbh I can only believe that this is the heavy hand of the US and nothing else. This is so totally their MO: they *always* focus on the "one guy" thing. They pick that "one guy" smash the shit out of him, and hope the problem goes away. They never try to fix the entire issue, it's always that one guy who is the bad man who touched them in the park, not the bigger issue. Make that fellow go away, problem solved. I mean, it worked with Iraq, the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and all their other issues in the past just fine, no? Oh, no, wait...it didn't.

 

[Embattle]

It is strange how you and others are so willing to accept some information as gospel, such as the FO lawyers information coming from a newspaper source which also included information that the act wasn't even stated as a threat, but then discount anything to do with the Assange rape allegations because it suits personal opinions. It also forgets the simple fact that the extradition trial wasn't, and never is, a trial about guilt which again he was quite happy to participate in until it went against him, although he is kind of screwed since he will never prove it to be wrong while in another countries embassy located in another country.

Also while I've no doubt the US has been talking about possible action to do with the Assange case in reality they've had to absolutely nothing so far since this is a farce without them, if they really want him they will get him in one way or another but I personally think they've got the main person they wanted who they are naturally treating like shit.

The man is an asshat who is taking up far too much time.