Gratz Albs on Relic Raid!

[Sendraks]

So you redo earlier alarmclockRR-definition to make your night relicraid not an alarmclockraid..

As I said TWICE I DIDN'T WRITE that earlier defintion, I DON'T AGREE with that earlier definition, so why do you keep bringing it up? If I had made or at least agreed with the earlier definition, you'd have a point, but as I didn't, I can't see that you do.

I am free to provide my own defintions, especially if I DIDN'T WRITE or DON'T AGREE with any earlier ones provided by unnamed Albs who I don't know.

Is that clear for you?

By Alb definition we did an alarmclockraid when we eventually stood outside Excal gates 04:00 in the night.

No.
By the definition of "an alb" or "some albs" you did an alarm clock raid. I don't believe that you did.

By comparison with what happened on Wednesday night, you did start your raid on ALbion very late though, compared to our raiding Mdigard at 6pm (7pm CET). But I get the impression that you'll not grasp the fundamentals of this rather simple point.

Grats to tappi he did a good rr, Albion now have 4 relics the most we've had. I still can't agree with the time though, it goes against what i beleive is the spirit of the game, which is having fun with the most amount of folk (from all 3 realms) as possible.

Respect.

As I said before, I agree that its better when RRs take place where there are no time restrictions and everyone has a chance to get online and get involved.

 

[Gordonax]

Oh fer gods sake, the bloody name "alarm clock raid" sort of gives away what it is:

Step 1: Log off, go to bed.
Step 2: Set alarm clock for 4/5/6am.
Step 3: Wake up, log in.
Step 4: Raid relic keep and make off with the goodies.

The point of an alarm clock raid is to get up in the middle of the night, logging in and raiding at the point at which you know there will be the least number of defenders. The tactic is to avoid opposition by picking the time that you know there will be the minimum number of defenders, and overwhealming them with a group of players who have got up solely for the purpose of doing a relic raid.

If, on the other hand, you're fighting continuously all night *it's not an alarm clock raid*. No alarm clock = no alarm clock raid. Get it?

If a bunch of players who normally play late at night want to make a go at the relics, fine. There's likely to a similar number of players in the other realms. If a bunch of people fight throughout the night continuously and end up doing a relic raid, again - fine. Their enemies could choose to stay up and fight themselves, and - at least - have a chance to defend.

When 100 players who don't normally play at that time get up early to do a relic raid, ensuring that there's no chance of defending, it's an alarm clock raid.

 

[Calo]

Oh fer gods sake, the bloody name "alarm clock raid" sort of gives away what it is:

Step 1: Log off, go to bed.
Step 2: Set alarm clock for 4/5/6am.
Step 3: Wake up, log in.
Step 4: Raid relic keep and make off with the goodies.

The point of an alarm clock raid is to get up in the middle of the night, logging in and raiding at the point at which you know there will be the least number of defenders. The tactic is to avoid opposition by picking the time that you know there will be the minimum number of defenders, and overwhealming them with a group of players who have got up solely for the purpose of doing a relic raid.

If, on the other hand, you're fighting continuously all night *it's not an alarm clock raid*. No alarm clock = no alarm clock raid. Get it?

If a bunch of players who normally play late at night want to make a go at the relics, fine. There's likely to a similar number of players in the other realms. If a bunch of people fight throughout the night continuously and end up doing a relic raid, again - fine. Their enemies could choose to stay up and fight themselves, and - at least - have a chance to defend.

When 100 players who don't normally play at that time get up early to do a relic raid, ensuring that there's no chance of defending, it's an alarm clock raid.

But what if ppl didnt put up their alarm clock but just played whole night long (like ur on a lan or so) and they go like, mm lets raid relics, perhaps its fun and we can laugh tomorrow at the 5000 crying albs...)

(n/o but i had to give u some reply back !) :wub:

 

[Sendraks]

Gord, I know that, you know that.

But I'm not sure the point is getting across.

 

[Vasconcelos]

Tbh its so long ago I dont remember if we had one, two relics or none, mite have been one of the Alb farmraids. It started as a 50 man revengeraid into Alb some time before Midnight (23:00 CET) after retaking Bledmeer and camping AMG, and ended up getting zerged by large outlawzerg outside excal (04:00 CET), after which most ppl logged happy with getting their revenge . It didnt set any mark in history other then a massive Alb alarmclockwhine on Bw.

Lemme find the thread, it was not so long ago

https://forums.freddyshouse.com/showthread.php?t=20362&page=40&pp=15&highlight=relic+raid

43 pages

Sumarizing:

Aussie took strenght relics from mid with the engaging style.
Mids could not play w/o relics not even for 1 day so they stayed all nite awake "Redbull" style untill all relics were back at home (think ardamel explain it sumwhere btwn page 20 or so how 1st relic was at home at 7am n rest 2 at 8am, not sure tho..)

 

[Calo]

Lemme find the thread, it was not so long ago

https://forums.freddyshouse.com/showthread.php?t=20362&page=40&pp=15&highlight=relic+raid

43 pages

Sumarizing:

Aussie took strenght relics from mid with the engaging style.
Mids could not play w/o relics not even for 1 day so they stayed all nite awake "Redbull" style untill all relics were back at home (think ardamel explain it sumwhere btwn page 20 or so how 1st relic was at home at 7am n rest 2 at 8am, not sure tho..)

Right , this is perfect, some alb dude(u) is actually saying engage raids are fine (u just admitted that fighting nothing but npc, actually u didnt even fight them is FUN) and then u come WHINE HERE that we didnt went to sleep for the relics. Which is the whole points of this thread, staying awake for some relics. That is what all the albs are using to defend themself and u just told them all wrong, good work!

Seriously im gonna make an ac raid just to hear u guys cry about it.
Some advice: we dont care, we will never care, nobody will ever care, its a game. We mids are evil norsemans! Now try to understand that, and stop crying about some ac 10 months ago

 

[Vasconcelos]

Right , this is perfect, some alb dude(u) is actually saying engage raids are fine (u just admitted that fighting nothing but npc, actually u didnt even fight them is FUN) and then u come WHINE HERE that we didnt went to sleep for the relics. Which is the whole points of this thread, staying awake for some relics. That is what all the albs are using to defend themself and u just told them all wrong, good work!

Seriously im gonna make an ac raid just to hear u guys cry about it.
Some advice: we dont care, we will never care, nobody will ever care, its a game. We mids are evil norsemans! Now try to understand that, and stop crying about some ac 10 months ago

Man, get some comprehension skills. I was proving that "Redbull" raids as you like to call it is nothing new, as that link proves. This pack of replies are aimed to that guy who tried to look original naming last Wednesday raid "Redbull" raid

PS: was not an alarmclock raid basically because you mids didnt need to set ur alarms staying all nite awake till morning.

Comprende?

 

[Sendraks]

: PS: was not an alarmclock raid basically because you mids didnt need to set ur alarms staying all nite awake till morning.

Also worth pointing out in that example that the mids started at 10pm GMT and finished at, what was it, 7am GMT?

Compare that to a raid that starts 6pm GMT and finishes 2pm GMT.

I'm looking at the kettles of fish involved, and I'd say they were different.

 

[Jaapi]

we dont care, we will never care, nobody will ever care, its a game.

Indeed...

 

[Phule_Gubben]

never mind!

 

[Octo]

Lemme find the thread, it was not so long ago

https://forums.freddyshouse.com/showthread.php?t=20362&page=40&pp=15&highlight=relic+raid

43 pages

Sumarizing:

Aussie took strenght relics from mid with the engaging style.
Mids could not play w/o relics not even for 1 day so they stayed all nite awake "Redbull" style untill all relics were back at home (think ardamel explain it sumwhere btwn page 20 or so how 1st relic was at home at 7am n rest 2 at 8am, not sure tho..)

I where talking about an unsucsessfull relic raid into Albland after a realmdefence.. no relic changed hands the 12 hours the defence/attack lastet. I tried to find the thread, but BW not so "userfriendly" atm. God sake, the point was that the "Alb in the street" along with Alb leaders called it alarmclockraid back then, but nowadays it apparently isnt.
But doesnt matter, Alb can prolly get all relics and most of the keeps 1 month after the release of WoW anyway

 

[Octo]

Sendrak; Didnt see your somewhat rude reply right away
I understand, but sorry, it doesnt matter if you disagree with it or find new definitions of it. The old ones are still there and at least most of Midgard (an looks like some Albs aswell) look upon it as a nightraid. Attacking the relics with a massive zerg consisting of more 50s then the total Mid pop online at those late/early hours..
Though I like the definition "redbullraid" for these kind of RRs
Anyway, in my point of view alarmclockraid is just a way to make the realm under attack unable to defend itself.. just like Albion bring 400 man zergs.. (noone but the server itself can defeat such a zerg on Excal), so at least I dont mind that u took the relics in the middle of the night.

 

[Gordonax]

But what if ppl didnt put up their alarm clock but just played whole night long (like ur on a lan or so) and they go like, mm lets raid relics, perhaps its fun and we can laugh tomorrow at the 5000 crying albs...)

Fine! I wouldn't have a problem with that.

(n/o but i had to give u some reply back !) :wub:

In the words of Shakespear.... "Shut it you SLAHG"

 

[Gordonax]

Gord, I know that, you know that.

But I'm not sure the point is getting across.

COME ON YOU SLAHGS I'LL 'AV YOU ALL!!!!


(I may have been down the pub).

 

[Ghaladriel]

 

[Xmi]

It's a computer game not war, comparing it to war is retarded.
Relic raids arnt about the pixles to me i couldnt give a crap about the relic bonus thats just extras. The whole point about a rr and the game in whole for me is both sides having fun.

Having to get only 3 hours sleep before work is not fun. Waking up at 8 am to go to work to find the enemy has taken your relics you spent alot of time and effort getting at primetime is not fun. By alarm raiding those sad enough to do it are ruining the fun of those people who choose not to stay up till 3am or get up at 6 am or simply can't due to work...........

I'd much rather take relics when the majority of both realms involved can join in ad have some fun, taking relics when the other realm can bring similar numbers to defend is fun. Its a challenge unlike waiting until the otherside goes to sleep so you vastly out number the enemy realm. That doesnt take planning,balls or skill any random gimp can get a relic when you outnumber the enemy 3:1. I myself prefer the challenge route.

Don't know or care if many will agree with me on this it's how i play/used to play, just thank god i'm inactive atm because the albion i played in used to have pride and balls unlike the current state of the realm

Totally and utterly agree with all of your views here, Herbal!

Sod Realm allegience, you only need half a brain to see that this game has lost the plot when it comes to frontier defence, there's no fun in 24*7 defence against overwhelming numbers, as the hibs found out in the first few days, and the mids subsequently.

Why didn't Mythic build in controls to make sure strategy and skill, and not numbers were the upmost deciding factors in any relic raid, or indeed in any enemy keep take? 1.71 attempts to address this problem, possibly too little too late though; I think Mythic are adrift somewhere in the North Sea with this one.

Unless we return to some normality (i.e. put some fun back into the frontier aspects of this game, because graphics alone here will not carry it) then there is only one place this game will go: we should all QQ at that thought!

 

[acei]

Surprised that Herbal is knocking the RR... Herbal, you speak of strategy etc and giving the enemy a chance to defend... your last RR had 500+ people on it? More than the amount of mids that was on at that time, please don't say primetime is strategy when you're only outnumbering the enemy. Relic raid in the morning is more strategical than outnumbering 2:1... 2:1 is brute force NOT the uber strategy you're making it out to be. So stop knocking Tappi's RR until you come up with a true strategy other than outnumbering!

 

[Herbal]

Surprised that Herbal is knocking the RR... Herbal, you speak of strategy etc and giving the enemy a chance to defend... your last RR had 500+ people on it? More than the amount of mids that was on at that time, please don't say primetime is strategy when you're only outnumbering the enemy. Relic raid in the morning is more strategical than outnumbering 2:1... 2:1 is brute force NOT the uber strategy you're making it out to be. So stop knocking Tappi's RR until you come up with a true strategy other than outnumbering!

500 man was my 1st rr, 2nd was with 220. You should know, you where on both iirc m8. 1st raid i over did it on numbers because i thought mids would react faster than they did.

I dont mean to have a go at tappi, i'm just stating my disagreement on the time. I've always thought later than 12 pm gmt raids where lame even if they started X hours earlier (and have never partisipated on a rr that finished long after 12 ie past 1 am) no matter the realm doing the rring.

Anyway cba argueing over the same points over n over, we have a difference of oppinion, you want to play the game one way, i prefer another. It's not the end of the world .

 

[noaim]

500 man was my 1st rr, 2nd was with 220. You should know, you where on both iirc m8. 1st raid i over did it on numbers because i thought mids would react faster than they did.

Actaully, it was the second that had 500 on it, or both, because I wasnt home when you did the first, but I was logged in Mjollner when you did the second, and that one was the one had insane amount of people.

 

[Icebreaker]

200, 500, ..... oh god. I wish i could get so many Hibs. xD

With 500 Hibs i would roxxor the World.

 

[Belomar]

With 500 Hibs i would roxxor the World.

Shrooooooooooms of doooooom overload!

 

[Phule_Gubben]

200, 500, ..... oh god. I wish i could get so many Hibs. xD

With 500 Hibs i would roxxor the World.

You mean DAoC i hope. This is just a game you know.

 

[Heath]

Why didn't Mythic build in controls to make sure strategy and skill, and not numbers were the upmost deciding factors in any relic raid, or indeed in any enemy keep take?

So, you don't consider having to take 3 keeps (and towers) just to open the relic gates a control?. What would you like..a Lara Croft type puzzle that needs us to enter every keep and throw a switch?? ..but the switch is hidden in different places at every keep??.

Hell, why not make it so we have to take EVERY enemy keep before we even get a sniff of a relic gate. Or, better still, make the relic keep like the ML10 portal...changes location everyday. <sarcasm off>

I think that when you look at NF and OF, the difference is amazing. The planning that needs to be done, Yes Calo...planning. 3 keeps (and possibly towers) need to be taken, and defended enough to keep the relic gates open, the main force needs to push to the relic, get through the mid/hib defence. Then, needs to stay at the relic keep long enough for the pillars to come down. Get the relics and get home safe.

If you think that sheer numbers alone will do that...look again. A massive army will bring with it massive egos, everybody will want to be a leader. Trying just to keep control isnt enough. If the leader doesnt do a good enough job, nobody will follow them again.
Look at Herbal, Ardamel etc...their people know what they can do, and would follow them without question. Tappi is emerging as one of those people.An Alb leader for NF. And, i for one, would follow him and his orders without question. Hopefully others would too now.

 

[Sendraks]

Sendrak; Didnt see your somewhat rude reply right away.

Heh, nice try, but I don't think there was anything rude about my reply. You have been willfully and persistantly ignoring the point I have been making, forcing me to spell it out for you, however....

I understand, but sorry, it doesnt matter if you disagree with it or find new definitions of it. The old ones are still there and at least most of Midgard (an looks like some Albs aswell) look upon it as a nightraid..

It does matter if I disagree. Thats the whole point. If I don't agree with the earlier definitions, it makes your attempt to use them to counter what I say totally pointless. Thats how it is. You can choose not to accept it, but it won't change it as a fundamental fact. However..

I see you've moved your position from the raid being considered and "alarm clock raid" to is being "a nightraid."
This I agree with.

Anyway, in my point of view alarmclockraid is just a way to make the realm under attack unable to defend itself...

Thats everyone's defintion of an alarm clock raid, not just your's.

just like Albion bring 400 man zergs.. (noone but the server itself can defeat such a zerg on Excal), so at least I dont mind that u took the relics in the middle of the night.

I've never seen a 400 man Albion zerg, EVER. At best I'd say I've seen 200 Albions in for one RR at anyone time and Midgard is more than capable of fielding those kinds of numbers.

Midgard has defeated (hats off, respect due) such zergs in the past, but I don't recall it having to defeat a 400 man zerg. Though I'd be interested to see any information alluding to when it had. I notice that Herbal mentions a 500 man one, be interested to see the figures to support that.

 

[Antedeluvian]

500 peeps yeah, but shared btw the 8 keeps, there were about 180-200 on RK

 

[Octo]

Sendrak; Nightraid - alarmclockraid, by earlier definition the same thing. It doesnt matter if you disagree with the earlier definition because very large amount of ppl have agreed on the earlier definition. Ofc, Mids where fighting against getting the alarmclock-staple on the raid, just like you fight for not getting alarmclock-staple on your current raid, but the general Albion population (aka "albs") and even a few Hibs "decided" it was an alarmclockraid.
I see that you are new to the game.. if u mean that Albion never had 400+ zergs and have never been part of such a zerg u cant have been active in RvR for long.
The reason Albion didnt have all relics pre NF where mostly due to the servers crashing/melting if the defending realm could mass a 100+ zerg or place a "few" shrooms in the same zone .

 

[Icebreaker]

You mean DAoC i hope. This is just a game you know.

Daoc ofc, there aren't Hibs in RL. And no Shrooms you know.

 

[Vaas Harkonnen]

albs uke:

 

[Smilewhenyousaythat]

mids..... uke:

 

[Sendraks]

Sendrak; Nightraid - alarmclockraid, by earlier definition the same thing. It doesnt matter if you disagree with the earlier definition because very large amount of ppl have agreed on the earlier definition.

It does matter. You're basically forcing me to ascribe to a defintion that I don't agree and have never agreed with, in order to prove your point. Which doesn't work.

My whole point is based around what I think and my opinion. If wish to argue the earlier defintion of an alarmclock raid, then argue it with the people who came up with it and agreed with it.

Furthermore, its not even as if its the majority of the Alb population that I'm disagreeing with, as the people who post here do not represent the majority of the ALb population on the Excal server.

An example of what you are doing is this - hypothetically speaking, some time ago some Albs decreed that in order for anyone to participate on an RR, the must be raped by an enraged wild goat beforehand. Obviously this is not something that I would agree with.

I participate in an RR where the people involved don't allow themselves to be raped by a wild goats.

The Albs who signed up to the earlier defintion and some Mids who agreed with it, call the raid "lame" or whatever, due to the lack of pre-raid wild goat action.

Despite the fact that I disagree with this earlier concept, you are insistant that I should allow myself to be viciously sexually assaulted by a wild goat.

In short, just because some Albs/Mids (not the majority of the population by any means) many moons ago agreed a definition, does not mean that I have to accept that defintion when formulating my arguments. For the basis of my opinion it is not relevant.

but the general Albion population (aka "albs") and even a few Hibs "decided" it was an alarmclockraid.

If it was decided on these boards, then it wasn't the general Alb population. I don't think anyone is under any illusions that, busy as these forums are, they are frequented by the "majority" of DAoC Excal playes.

And, as I have previously indicated, I don't agree with the earlier definition, have never agreed with the earlier defintion and am not bound to respect said earlier defintion.

Your whole argument on this issue is dependant on the fact that you think I should agree with it. But of course, I don't have to.

I see that you are new to the game..

You do? How do you see this?

if u mean that Albion never had 400+ zergs and have never been part of such a zerg u cant have been active in RvR for long.

I have not seen a 400 man zerg myself, I did not say that they never happened. But on the basis of what I have experience to date, such a zerg strikes me as unlikley or an exaggeration, until proved otherwise.

The reason Albion didnt have all relics pre NF where mostly due to the servers crashing/melting if the defending realm could mass a 100+ zerg or place a "few" shrooms in the same zone .

Despite your assertion that I am "new" to the game, I am fully aware of some of the reasons why the prime-time RR raids failed pre-NF. As I have previously indicated in this thread, I was on some of them and they were not 400man zergs.