Religion Good news!

[old.Tohtori]

I'm beginning to agree with you - look at the number of people on here who think I should "seek help" for daring to state in no uncertain terms the harsh truth about religion.

The problem being that you don't notice, or even accept, how over the top zealot like you are in your anger towards religion. Just like religious zealots.

People don't think you should seek help for an opinion, they think you should seek help due to the excess reactions.

 

[Punishment]

religion was invented as a control mechanism for uneducated people, nothing more, nothing less.
it was designed to scare people into doing what you want them to do

seems to have done remarkably well, dont you think ?

Indeed, now it's no longer needed as financial burden and the pursuit of wealth are the new vehicle

 

[Scouse]

People don't think you should seek help for an opinion, they think you should seek help due to the excess reactions.

I don't consider typing about the shortcomings of religion on an internet forum an "excess reaction" to the many violent crimes of religion.

I think it's morally reprehensible that people let the institutions come away from their crimes with a clean bill of health.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Like i said, you don't see what you're saying like outsiders do. I'd suggest getting some RL person who you trust and respect to read this thread and tell you honestly how you come across.

 

[Scouse]

I hope antagonistically - otherwise I'd feel like an appeaser of this sort of stuff. In today's news:

Imam Jailed for sexually assaulting children

An Imam from Northamptonshire who sexually assaulted two children he was teaching about the Koran has been jailed for 12 months. [Abdul Matin] was convicted of seven sexual assaults over 12 months from January 2007

Another human in a position of religious responsibility and authority caught kiddy fiddling. This time it was an Islamic cleric caught showing his particular religion's potential for clerical child abuse.

Perhaps it's something about the power their adoring masses adorn them with?

 

[Raven]

It's not exclusive to the religions though, all sorts of people mess with kids from all walks of life. The problem is that some of them institutionally cover it up and don't get punished for covering it up.

 

[rynnor]

religion was invented as a control mechanism for uneducated people, nothing more, nothing less.
it was designed to scare people into doing what you want them to do

seems to have done remarkably well, dont you think ?

Interesting to see the old Marxist view isnt dead.

In reality the first religions were about giving man the illusion of control over forces he couldnt comprehend like disease/famines/weather/death. Classical religions like the Greeks/Egyptians still had a strong streak of this but personified different bits into different deities.

The Egyptians appear to have been the first to link the gods to their monarchs in order to reinforce their position - a state that continues to today in the UK with the monarch being the head of the church or for Catholics the Pope serving a similar role.

Either way it wasnt invented to control the uneducated since it began so long ago the idea of an educated elite didn't exist.

 

[Mabs]

The Egyptians appear to have been the first to link the gods to their monarchs in order to reinforce their position.

nice try, but you shot yourself in the foot there a bit

 

[Ormorof]

not really, the Egyptians did not invent religion it was around a long time before them, but they were among the first to change it into what it has now become

religion was not invented as a means of control, but it became a useful tool.

i do agree that the catholic church has done terrible things and continues to spew madness all over the world along with many other religions, my point in the previous post was that even if he had not said he was doing it for god or whatever, you seem to hop on the religion bashing wagon as soon as any mention of religion comes up (even if it is totally unrelated and the guy is simply gone in the head)

What i find reprehensible is that police & governments seem to be totally ok with the fact that these crimes have been covered up, if it had been a group of sports coaches molesting kids for decades they would have been hung drawn and quartered, but to use Ireland as an example, the church was allowed to force the police and the investigation not to mention any names and that was seen as totally ok by the courts and not at all an obstruction of justice, which is absurd.

 

[rynnor]

What i find reprehensible is that police & governments seem to be totally ok with the fact that these crimes have been covered up, if it had been a group of sports coaches molesting kids for decades they would have been hung drawn and quartered, but to use Ireland as an example, the church was allowed to force the police and the investigation not to mention any names and that was seen as totally ok by the courts and not at all an obstruction of justice, which is absurd.

That applies to any group that has power/is part of the establishment. The crimes of MPs/royals/policemen etc. all get a far more lenient treatment and are often swept under the rug.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I hope antagonistically - otherwise I'd feel like an appeaser of this sort of stuff. In today's news:

Imam Jailed for sexually assaulting children

Another human in a position of religious responsibility and authority caught kiddy fiddling. This time it was an Islamic cleric caught showing his particular religion's potential for clerical child abuse.

Perhaps it's something about the power their adoring masses adorn them with?

Isn't this good though, a in just what you asked? Punishment for crimes to people in power.

 

[DaGaffer]

Either way it wasnt invented to control the uneducated since it began so long ago the idea of an educated elite didn't exist.

"Educated" is a misnomer in the modern sense, "having access to the Gods" is a better description. Elites have always existed, even in Neolithic times (wise women, witch doctors etc) who were often the keepers of oral history and are probably the ones the rest of the tribe turned to for an explanation. Genetically they were probably the geeks who were crap at hunting but had the gift of the gab and got themselves a cushy gig back at camp (it may even explain where modern notions of priestly celibacy come from - if you were the guy back at camp with the women, the hunters didn't want you getting ideas, to the extent that castration became an affliction of priests in lots of cultures). These geeks used the "gods" (which usually came down pattern recognition) to protect their position. Even if some believed what they were saying, self-interest was still part of their agenda.

Once organised farming started then religion is almost certainly one of the main means of control those at the top used (because its less risky than only using force). Its fairly obvious if you look it because a lot of religious strictures even today are actually based on sound practical advice in the cultures they spring from (like avoiding pork and shellfish in hot climates).

 

[DaGaffer]

What i find reprehensible is that police & governments seem to be totally ok with the fact that these crimes have been covered up, if it had been a group of sports coaches molesting kids for decades they would have been hung drawn and quartered, but to use Ireland as an example, the church was allowed to force the police and the investigation not to mention any names and that was seen as totally ok by the courts and not at all an obstruction of justice, which is absurd.

I think the Irish case is probably the most extreme to be honest because the place was effectively a theocracy after independence and in particular the church had near total control over the education system (at first and second level). The church's hold has finally been broken but it will still take a long time for it to all shake out; even now I heard on the radio yesterday that Irish primary school kids spend more than twice as much time on religion than science (10% v 4%), which is shocking frankly, but at least the politicians are no longer afraid to say its going to change.

 

[Scouse]

Fuck Islam...

Crowds in Khartoum attacked the German and British embassies

Despite it being a US-made film and nothing to do with us.

FUCK religion. Fuck it in the ass. It turns usually reasonable people into warmongering dogs.

 

[Olgaline]

Fuck Islam...



Despite it being a US-made film and nothing to do with us.

FUCK religion. Fuck it in the ass. It turns usually reasonable people into warmongering dogs.

it's an excuse,
Islam has jack-shit to do with anything. - same was true with the oh so famouse drawings.

Lets not hold an entire religion hostage on the count of a bunch of nutt-headed extremists.

- Funny thought
Terrorists bomb some western country, islamic religiouse leaders say = act of a few, dont judge
Some nuttjob makes an amatur anti-islamic film, islamic religiouse leaders scream = Insult! Down with the west!

I have friends that are well educated, intelligent and simply happen to be islamic as well, posting stupid remarks on FB like allahu akbar since yesterday, I love them, but I want badly to beat thier haeds in!

 

[Olgaline]

One can rightly wonder why an amateur film, made ​​by an Israeli-American real estate agent and posted on Youtube
can cost a U.S. ambassador and several others their lives.

Regardless of how mean, ridiculous and hateful the so-called film may be, we must all accept both freedom of expression and technological development.
And recognize that there can be posted stuff on You-tube, Facebook or Twitter, which you simply cannot hold a country's government or region of the world responsible for.

That freedom of expression also applies to people you disagree with. And such must be fought with silence or arguments.
Not with hate and ritual attacks on the United States.


Peace out!

 

[old.Tohtori]

FUCK religion. Fuck it in the ass.

I agree, i know a couple of very religious hotties at the local club.

 

[rynnor]

One can rightly wonder why an amateur film, made ​​by an Israeli-American real estate agent and posted on Youtube
can cost a U.S. ambassador and several others their lives.

I think Al Qaeda were behind that attack in Libya - it was on Sept 11 - they just used the film demo as cover.

 

[Turamber]

The article states that the number of people claiming adherance to a religious faith is down to 50% from 2/3rds. And it also states that young people see no value in morality.

Do you think it is good that young people do not care about morality? Do you believe there is a correlation between people's changing views about God and religion to young people's lack of morality? Is that a good thing?

 

[Olgaline]

I see no reason to link Religion and morality,
both can aesily co-exsist without nessersarily beeing linked.
If a religion teaches morality, fine! as long as it's constructive and not some warped version of realityt.

 

[DaGaffer]

The article states that the number of people claiming adherance to a religious faith is down to 50% from 2/3rds. And it also states that young people see no value in morality.

Do you think it is good that young people do not care about morality? Do you believe there is a correlation between people's changing views about God and religion to young people's lack of morality? Is that a good thing?

No it doesn't. It says:

The poll also suggests 51% of young people believe they are less concerned with morals than their parents.

That statement can be construed several ways, but at no point does it say young people see no value in morality.

 

[rynnor]

Yeah - I think morals are tainted somewhat when homosexuality was seen as immoral, sex outside marriage etc. etc.

 

[Scouse]

Lets not hold an entire religion hostage on the count of a bunch of nutt-headed extremists.

It's not nut-headed extremists. It's the moderate majority.

You only have to have lived in Bradford to know that the only thing that separates "our" muslims and the rest of the islamic world is two generations of kids being schooled here...

 

[Zede]

Scouse, like me is from the Hitchens school of ethics.


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQorzOS-F6w

 

[Job]

As much as I like to see the death of religion, I have no fucking idea whatsover we are going to replace it with, science's teaching of a cold, indifferent universe, made by chance with no point, no matter how majestical and awe inspiring is still an utterly pointless and uncaring place.
Built into the human brain is a desire for comfort and meaning to life, evolution offers the exact opposite to this, you are here simply because billions that weren't as good died off, everything you think, everything you desire is only there because those traits are what kept you reproducing, they mean nothing and nothing out there cares, we could all be taken out by a passing rock and it would mean nothing, in fact it allready does,
Religion will neverr go away because the truth is frickin horrible.

 

[Wij]

Azathoth is a more appropriate deity.

 

[Raven]

The article states that the number of people claiming adherance to a religious faith is down to 50% from 2/3rds. And it also states that young people see no value in morality.

Do you think it is good that young people do not care about morality? Do you believe there is a correlation between people's changing views about God and religion to young people's lack of morality? Is that a good thing?

What have morals got to do with religion?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well...we would need proof that morality(as it is) would exist without religion.

 

[Job]

LOL morals..
We all have fuzzy logic morals based on the circumstance of the event and how it is presented to us.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Only fuzzy morals we have is; save own arse, save mates arse, kill all opposers.

Anything else, all religion of one form or other.