Religion Good news!

[Scouse]

I guess what I'm saying is , all in all, a lot of people in the world probably need religion to keep em quiet for another hundred years or two

Why? They've got X-Factor.

Religion is (happily - for me) dying in the UK. We're not coming to a horrid moral end. In fact - we've a more inclusive society than ever before. Paedophilia is (apparently) at half the rate that it was in the 1950's.

So what if the divorce rate is up eh? - at least people aren't being forced to live together with people they hate and children are no longer tarnished with the religious-based stigma of being illegitimate - or bastards, to give them their name.

Hand-in-hand with the demise of religion is increasing social freedom. Especially for those who've previously been under the kosh - women, homosexuals, intellectuals...

...we're in danger *gasp* of having the possibility of creating a society that values truth and evidence instead of one that believes in supersticion and rule by fear.

Yay!

 

[Scouse]

(in short; zealot atheist shoots people)

Lol - are you saying is atheism was causal in his murders?

Madman: "I murder you in, erm, nobodies name"

Victim: "You're a cunt then - at least you don't worship sky-fairies"

 

[old.Tohtori]

Because fall of religion is the logical reason for those changes.

*ding!*

Oh what's that? Ah, Scouse just reached level 80 with his Bullshitter class.

Lol - are you saying is atheism was causal in his murders?

Yes, he shot theists due to hating religion with a passion.

Spin that spiderman.

 

[Scouse]

Yes, he shot theists due to hating religion with a passion.

Where in that article does it say that?

I read the whole thing and it painted the picture of a lad with a very strange upbringing, drug abuse and mental health issues. The tiny point about him being atheist is one amongst many different points in the article and fuck all to do with anything else.

In fact a judge has ruled him mentally incompetent to stand trial.

Fishing for shit again Toht?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Hmm, go figure. Being an avid anti-religious person, or even just an atheist, was just part of him and the whole packet needs to be viewed before pointing a finger at one part.

Don't think that kind of overall viewing instead of cherrypicking would apply in evil people using religion as a tool to mass people into wars just to gain wealth, land, resources and power, or to fiddle kids, instead of pleasing the skyfairy applies then.

Right?

 

[Scouse]

Bullshit Toht. You said this:

Yes, he shot theists due to hating religion with a passion.

Spin that spiderman.

Where did it say that?

Oh. It didn't. You're so desparate to find some evidence to defend the indefensible you're making shit up and expecting me not to read it?

 

[old.Tohtori]

No, it was just plain old trapping to make the point above. Making it about "atheist kills people!" just lowered your twistdefences enough for you to agree that something being part of an evil act doesn't make the part evil.

 

[Scouse]

something being part of an evil act doesn't make the part evil.

In the case of the above, no - it's unrelated. In the case of systemic child rape and cover-up by a religious organisation, yes - it's integral.

 

[Yoni]

Scouse you really do scare me sometimes...... Really you do

 

[Scouse]

Scouse you really do scare me sometimes...... Really you do

Do I scare you because I'm responsible for child-rape, murder, indoctrination, sexual and intellectual repression? Oh...

What about me scares you? Is it that I'm unafraid/unashamed to tell the truth about an organisation as I see it? Widely-documented truth at that.

I mean, am I wrong?

Nobody has put up a denial that the church has done these things. So I thought I'd better ask the question...

 

[Raven]

He is right though. That's not to say all Catholics are kiddie fiddlers obviously (Or at least I hope not!) However their church is an organisation that has actively covered up child abuse for years and still does today. If it was any other organisation it would be investigated properly and there would be proper criminal proceedings against it's bosses. The Catholic church causes immense damage in the developing world with it's bat shit crazy teachings with regards to contraception and HIV prevention. Previous to all this it tortured people to death for not following their particular branch of religion.

The catholic church is a vile organisation and really, ought to be investigated properly and forced to change.

 

[Ormorof]

i think Tohts point was more that if this had been a guy who was batshit crazy but also happened to be religious you would be all over the religious part like a fat kid on a cupcake

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Do we have to have one of these threads every month?

 

[Yoni]

Do I scare you because I'm responsible for child-rape, murder, indoctrination, sexual and intellectual repression? Oh...

What about me scares you? Is it that I'm unafraid/unashamed to tell the truth about an organisation as I see it? Widely-documented truth at that.

I mean, am I wrong?

Nobody has put up a denial that the church has done these things. So I thought I'd better ask the question...

You scare me because of your level of hatred.... Not all Catholics interfere with children, not all priests want to either. Yet it would appear that you would like to ethnically cleanse the world of their existence.....

 

[Scouse]

i think Tohts point was more that if this had been a guy who was batshit crazy but also happened to be religious you would be all over the religious part like a fat kid on a cupcake

In direct answer to your question - if a killer killed a load of people and then said "god told me to do it" - that's pretty good evidence that his religious beliefs had something to do with it.

If he was religious, but didn't show that his religious beliefs were the motivational factor (i.e. he wasn't raging against gays, or unbelievers, or the moral decline of a society turning away from god, yadda yadda yadda) - then I wouldn't say it was the religion's fault.


As for atheism as a motivational factor - how can not believing in something be a motivation to do something? Atheism isn't a motivation to murder someone.

The atheist would have have to say "no god told me to do this - I decided on my own".


Hatred of the religious does not equal atheism, Ormorof.

 

[Scouse]

You scare me because of your level of hatred.... Not all Catholics interfere with children, not all priests want to either. Yet it would appear that you would like to ethnically cleanse the world of their existence.....

I hate the religion, Yoni. Not the practicioners.

I'd dearly love to see the church destroyed. I would hate it if someone took it upon themselves to start killing religious people. They deserve pity and sympathy more than anything else.


Edit: I'd like you to answer my question tho pretty please.

Are the facts I've stated about the church incorrect? Am I wrong?

 

[Yoni]

I hate the religion, Yoni. Not the practicioners.

I'd dearly love to see the church destroyed. I would hate it if someone took it upon themselves to start killing religious people. They deserve pity and sympathy more than anything else.

That is seriously condescending.

 

[Scouse]

That is seriously condescending.

I can't help that.

Am I supposed to hate them? I pity them for their delusions. For their mistaken apprehensions. For the waste of life I see all around me. I feel sorry for them.

And angry at a church that gets 'em young and indoctrinates them.

 

[Yoni]

I can't help that.

Am I supposed to hate them? I pity them for their delusions. For their mistaken apprehensions. For the waste of life I see all around me. I feel sorry for them.

And angry at a church that gets 'em young and indoctrinates them.

My experience of young people and the Catholic church is, parents take them until they are old enough to have an opinion after that the young adult will continue to go to church or refuse.....

As for pity, don't bother they don't want or need it. If you don't hate them feel nothing for them.

 

[Scouse]

My experience of young people and the Catholic church is, parents take them until they are old enough to have an opinion after that the young adult will continue to go to church or refuse.....

As for pity, don't bother they don't want or need it. If you don't hate them feel nothing for them.

Parents take them in their formative years, from when they're baptised, to give them a "moral grounding". That's why baptism is a very important thing for the church - getting kids in early makes a big difference to their belief systems. If the church started campaigning for their souls after years of a secular education - say starting at 16 - then it wouldn't get any traction whatsoever.

People would read the bible and go "what is this obvious bullshit". It's why the church desparately needs to get kids in young.


As for pity - they may not want it - but thats not my problem. I can't help how I feel. I can't "feel nothing" - because I'm human and not a monster. If pity is condescending then they'll just have to live with that - not that they'll care much.

 

[rynnor]

...we're in danger *gasp* of having the possibility of creating a society that values truth and evidence instead of one that believes in supersticion and rule by fear.

Yeah right - I dont see much evidence of this - people have just transferred their beliefs to other stuff like ufos/fad diets/crazy exercise regimes/useless vitamins etc. etc.

If anything Science in the UK has slipped backwards - people are now ruled by marketing bullshit.

 

[Scouse]

Yeah right - I dont see much evidence of this

I said possibility. Without the violently censorious nature of religion we can, in this country, speak scientific truth without fear of death.

So at least it's a step in the right direction - one of many - but it's a step nonetheless.

 

[rynnor]

I said possibility. Without the violently censorious nature of religion we can, in this country, speak scientific truth without fear of death.

Fear of death maybe but the onerous libel laws still mean speaking the truth can potentially bankrupt you.

 

[Scouse]

Fear of death maybe but the onerous libel laws still mean speaking the truth can potentially bankrupt you.

Hopefully scientific truth won't often be subject of libel. The objective reporting of unbiased observation is hard to prosecute against.

Monetary factors are the biggest hurdle. Companies that pull funding of science that looks to be bad for their bottom line or fund "sceptics" in the media as it's more cost-effective to mess with uneducated human beliefs.

 

[Scouse]

"Obama obama obama, We are here for the Triumph of Islam"

...Nigerian police on alert, clashes with hundreds of demonstrators in Tunis, Morocco, Sudan and the Gaza Strip, US citizens warned not to travel in Algeria and Afghanistan has blocked YouTube.

Over a film.

Time correspondent Ashraf Khalil describes the scene on the ground in Egypt and concludes the reaction to the film was "essentially a case of an American group of fringe Christian fundamentalists successfully provoking and enraging a similar group of fringe Muslim fundamentalists".

FUCK RELIGION IN THE ASS.

 

[Punishment]

Seriously Scouse, seek help.

Society is evolving, religion in all it's forms was just a label for generalised Ethics and morality, and it's position was abused sure and especially by the Catholic church but let the last couple of generations who fervertly believe in it without shoving it down other peopled throats get on with it.

You actually are coming across as a bible basher athiest tbh, i don't believe in fuck all but i don't consider myself an Athiest either like religion it's just another label people use for their own comfort of having a place for everything and everything in its place

 

[Wij]

I said possibility. Without the violently censorious nature of religion we can, in this country, speak scientific truth without fear of death.

Not true I'm afraid

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...senter-tom-holland-is-threatened-8125641.html

 

[Scouse]

religion in all it's forms was just a label for generalised Ethics and morality,

Absolutely vehemently disagree with this. Completely wrong.

Religion lays claim to ethics and morality but organised religion is neither ethical nor moral.

Not true I'm afraid

I'm beginning to agree with you - look at the number of people on here who think I should "seek help" for daring to state in no uncertain terms the harsh truth about religion.

 

[Punishment]

Absolutely vehemently disagree with this. Completely wrong.

Religion lays claim to ethics and morality but organised religion is neither ethical nor moral.

Let me rephrase it then, religion came about as a way of explaining Ethics and Morality to the masses many of which are idiots who need to be spoon fed.

Throw in a healthy dose of guilt and it set people right up, simpler times tbh.

I would consider myself a spiritual person, religion is pointless i will agree but some of your comments are downright daft like killing religious people

 

[Mabs]

religion was invented as a control mechanism for uneducated people, nothing more, nothing less.
it was designed to scare people into doing what you want them to do

seems to have done remarkably well, dont you think ?