[GOA EVENT] The Alchemist's Quest

Xalin

[GOA] English Servers GM
Joined
Nov 2, 2004
Messages
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Clicky

Roderick sneaked up on his older brother Michael, a tall guard of Camelot. He was having a drink with some friends in The Stone and young Roderick, who one day wanted to become an Infiltrator, was practicing his sneaking skills !

"Yes it was a busy day today. We had some crazy guy in Camelot screaming that someone in Wearyall needs help tonight" - Roderick overheard Michael say just before he was about to jump on his back. Roderick decided to listen a little longer.

"What was that all about?" Dwerrav the barkeeper said. "I heard the commotion. That guy was screaming his lungs out wasn't he?"

"Yes" Michael answered, "He claimed some Alchemist named Gerald paid him well to do just that ; Scream his lungs out. To ask people to be in Wearyall Village tonight at 19 :30. But we told him to get lost ! We have the cryers for that. At least they have had a proper training in crying their lungs out !"

"And they get selected for the pleasantness of their voice !" one of the guards said sadly "I was rejected."

"So is anyone going to check it out tonight?" Dwerrav asked. "Not me" Said Michael. "I have to babysit my little brother tonight." This was Roderick's cue and he leapt towards Michael.
 

Feamos

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Messages
209
tbh that was the worst 2 hours of game time ive ever played, no reward or anything and we free'd a hib.

:kissit:
:puke:
 

Soha

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 3, 2004
Messages
295
I couldnt come but keep em comming =)
Always fun to do something else than hack and slash :cheers:
 

Snowfall

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
21
Big thank you for a nice fun quest and all the hard work you put into it.

Good to see so much roleplaying too, it normally gets drowned out in all the spam.
 

IainC

English WAR Community Manager
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
1,862
Thanks to the people who turned up. I hope that most of you enjoyed it. Thanks to Jerelyn for playing Gerald for us as well. Who knows what the future will hold for Avalon Isle now.

Mostly there is no ingame reward for our events, the reward is taking part in an event that will never be repeated and which no-one else has ever done.
 

Shanaia

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,673
Feamos said:
tbh that was the worst 2 hours of game time ive ever played, no reward or anything and we free'd a hib.

:kissit:
:puke:
rofl @ people like you
 

Starbuck

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Apr 29, 2004
Messages
386
I'd like to see performance enhancements above all.....suffering form lags :(

that......and a new crafting sytems would be nice......

Whats next for DaoC?

Probably the wrogn thread for these comments but though i'd jump on the bandwagon.

Nice to see that efforts are being made to get the role players amongst us going :)
 

Jjuraa

Banned
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Apr 5, 2004
Messages
883
Starbuck said:
Nice to see that efforts are being made to get the role players amongst us going :)
no it isnt :<

the /em command and a book of poor jokes is all it takes to keep the roleplayer population happy. work on events that everyone will enjoy, not just the roleplayers :touch:
 

Starbuck

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Apr 29, 2004
Messages
386
i agree mate, but not everyone is RvR focused like us.

They have done RvR events in the past also. Can't really say I keep track though.
 

Shanaia

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,673
Jjuraa said:
[..]work on events that everyone will enjoy, not just the roleplayers :touch:
I can't begin to comment on this I don't know where to begin ... that comment is flawed on so many levels that I'm to baffled to make a witty reply :<
 

Lamont

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jun 8, 2004
Messages
193
Witty reply

Shanaia,

I really wouldn't bother.

Guys like Jjuraa just don't seem to realise that by even playing this game in the first place they are in fact partaking in a form of roleplay. I remember Flesh having a go at roleplayers on a regular basis, even after he decided to get married in-game.. confused me a bit that one. ;)

Hate to point out the obvious, but it's called a 'Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplay Game' for a reason.

Now sure, some of us like to immerse ourselves in the game more than others, and fair play/respect to those who get their kicks from the game by concentrating fully on RvR and the neverending quest to become l33t, but I really don't see the logic behind certain comments made on this thread.

I also don't see the logic behind logging on another account to have a go at a player from another realm who just killed your paladin. :eek7: so if anyone should be defending themselves for the way they play this game...... will Jjuraa please take the stand? :touch:

One last point, if you don't play this game for escapism, why DO you play it? And that's an open question to anyone who wants to answer.. I'm interested.

Live and let live.
 

Jjuraa

Banned
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Apr 5, 2004
Messages
883
OK so you think my comment was unfair? Fair play. I'd appreciate an explaination though.

You failed to put it eloquently, but yes: i enjoy playing DAOC because of the "see who can be the best" challenge the game offers. I do not play the game to roleplay. In any sense, shape or form.

However, i do pay my subscription (2 subscriptions in fact, probably because of my elitist attitude?) So i fail to see why GOA should run events that only cater to the Roleplaying population of the server. (Yes i have been on one or two of these new-style events, and had to leave halfway through simply because there was no challenge, no adventure, just plot.

Now i appreciate that some people find "just plot" interesting, and i am in no way saying that this should not be the case. I just think that more could be done to make the events open to all, even those who do not wish to partake in storylines, or in-character communication. And that there should be proper rewards to be gained from these (very rare) occasions when GOA does some direct action ingame. (And i mean tangible rewards, the "warm glowly feeling" of a job well done lasts only as far as the next realm point for most).

To you.
 

Lamont

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jun 8, 2004
Messages
193
To me

Great stuff.. lets debate. :cheers:

Let me start by saying I'm a Jock, so 'eloquence' as you put it normally consists of reciting Burns once a year, and not much beyond. But I shall endeavour to satisy.

Indulge me if you would by allowing a chronological disection of your points.

Firstly, your reasons for playing: I would agree with you that 'To see who can be the best' is indeed a challenge fundamental to many peoples' enjoyment of the game; but how can there be a definition of what constitutes 'the best' when the mechanics and variables of the game give rise to such a huge number of possible yardsticks with which to measure yourself? To illustrate, do you define being 'the best' as having the highest number of RPs? The most efficient template? The most plats? Do you define it as having the most level 50s perhaps, or leading the largest guild?

My point is there is no single yardstick, and more often than not any one person who excels in any of those areas I have mentioned does so as a result of putting in the time and effort to accumulate rps/plats/artis etc etc.

Is one person 'better' than another because he can play 16 hours a day and afford 2 or more buffbot accounts? Can you buy 'better'?

Of course there is an element of skill involved in the playing of the game, but no amount of skill will for example help a good cleric who knows how to play his class beat a good infiltrator who also knows his class, if direct one-on-one is the yardstick you wish to use. It would be unfair and grossly inaccurate to say that players using infiltrators are 'better' than players using clerics, surely.

Imagine if you would a car race, with a start line and a finish line. Is one racer better than another because he can afford a faster car? Is he better because he can start earlier than the other competitors, or because he has more mechanics helping him fine-tune his engine? If most races were started without a level playing field from the outset, there would be a lot of debate about who was actually 'the best' now, wouldn't there.

My arguments therefore is that if everyone was to play the game to 'be the best' under a single definition, then most of the opportunities for having fun in the game would be lost as most classes would cease to exist and the variety and unpredictable human element would become typecast. Can you imagine a server with nothing but warlocks? :puke:

Secondly, you say you do not play the game to roleplay in any way, shape or form. That is absolutely acceptable of course, because as you rightly point out you pay your (multiple) subs and should feel free to enjoy the game how you feel fit within game rules.

But are you telling me that you've never enjoyed a quest you've gone on? Do you have your epic armour, and did you use it for any length of time? If not, why did you bother getting it? Did you honestly not think 'wow' when you saw Phoenix or Golestandt for the first time?

My point is that while you actively choose not to partake in any form of roleplay as you perhaps understand it, every time you log on you start playing a role by definition. Whether that is the role of a healer, or a nuker, or a tank, you are controlling the actions of an alter-ego represented by pixels on a screen.

If you only see pixels, then I can't understand why you would even want to play. If you see however a paladin you control who's actions can determine the success of your group, then I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this, but you are indeed a reluctant roleplayer in denial, and there is no known cure.

Roleplay doesn't need to involve shouting out 'I shall smite thee fell beast' at every opportunity. There are a number of roleplay guilds on the server and even THEY don't go to those extremes.

God, I've gone into 'wordy' mode.. apologies to those ploughing through this.

Now, as to events on the server only ever catering to what you define as roleplayers, with 'no challenge, no adventure, just plot'.

1. Challenge - By no challenge I assume you mean the event was completed quickly and easily (though by your own words you left half way through and I struggle to understand how you can make any comment about the challenge when you weren't arround for the finale)

Does anyone remember the battle event at Swanton Keep about a year ago? Hordes of purple con red bandits or whatever they were called. We must have had over 50 Albs there, and we only just succeeded in completing the event. Everyone agreed that was great fun. Some roleplayed it more than others, but everyone there enjoyed it. A good and challenging event, though I accept that some aren't nearly so good. But then I'm sure you yourself remember the good RvR fights and love RvR for that reason, and accept the less enjoyable RvR battles as an unavoidable element of the game, don't you? You put in the hours and endure boring runs around the frontier in search of that gem of a 1fg v's 1fg fight with no adds, where your skills are tested and the battle is a close thing right up to the last moment, when you ultimately win, don't you?

2. Adventure - You say you don't take part in events because there is no adventure? A direct contradiction surely. Adventure is loosely defined as 'a strange or unusual undertaking'. The events run by the GMs are just this; they cannot be read about on VOS or Allahkazam, they are unknown quantities. Of course, they are not to everyone's tastes (an impossible aspiration anyway), and some are better than others, but they are all 'adventures' by their very nature.

3. 'Just plot' - Ahhh, I think by this and your later comment regarding 'proper rewards' you mean items or cash you can use. Think about this for a moment.

If you expect an event such as this to provide something of such value that it would make it worth your while to turn up purely for the reward, then this is already done, and is known as a 'quest'. Arti quests, epic quests, etc etc. If you 'don't want to participate in storylines, or in-character communication' as you state, then your needs have already been catered for a thousand times more than those you define as roleplayers, in fact the game mechanics pander to what you are asking for. Quests - they are already there for you, so enjoy.

It seems to me that you want a part of the game you don't enjoy, i.e. GM organised events, to give you something that you would value, i.e. l33t gear.
I'm confused as to why, when there are plenty sources of l33t gear already, you would want a part of the game you admit to hating to provide yet another source? Analogous to a spoilt child at Christmas wanting someone elses toy purely to own it, rather than to enjoy it, don't you think?

Back to your other comments:

You say you think that more could be done to make these events open to all.

They already are open to all. Anyone can come along.. any level, any class, any guild, any player. I'd be extremely interested in any ideas you have that could improve the accessibility of these events. Extremely interested and absolutely amazed.

To finish off with (I can hear the cheers - sharrap, I'm almost done ;) ) you conclude by voicing a desire for events with your definition of a proper reward at the end of it. Great. Opinions like that are contructive, informative, and consequently gather support and are built upon. Comments such as your first one on this thread however get guys like myself releasing suppressed desires to tell-it-like-it-is.

And as I'm sure you can see, that can be a long and painful experience for all involved.

To quote a response to a similar post I made....

'so many words' :puke:

To you.
 

Jjuraa

Banned
Joined
Apr 5, 2004
Messages
883
Rah,

OK firstly i concede the point about being a roleplayer in the sense of performing a role within the game which has no bearing on real life (i don't usualy run around chanting things and hitting people). I guess i should alter my use of the word roleplayer, and call them "active-roleplayers". By this i mean the people who make an effort to speak in the language of "ye olde worlde", and build up a story behind their character. As opposed to people like me, who just type as they do in any online situation, and have no story behind their characters other than "LOL meights 50 in 1 day /played".

Next onto defining "the best". I understand how there can be no set deffinition of the "best player". I mean in theory i suppose it's possible to be the "best (active)roleplayer". But i still don't actively roleplay: so obviously il never be the best at that. However, it is entirely possible still to be seen as "elite" (for want of a better word) in the game. I don't think anyone could deny that Public Enemies are one of the best RvR guilds for example, or that Soulfly was one of the best raid leaders. With goals changing constantly, becoming "the best" may be short lived, but its a measurable goal none the less, and i play the game in the hope of achieving it. Regardless of wether or not it will ever happen. In a way maybe being the best is a measure of respect, but a short deffinition of it would be: No-one being able to deny that you are excellent at what you do. Again that could apply to all sorts of things, so i should say my desire to be the best lies with RvR in mind, simply because few people ever got recognised for being famous PvErs.

Onto the event points

1. Challenge: when i say there was no challenge, i meant nothing extra-ordinary was going on. Running to the barrows- challenging for some of the newer players maybe. Not for a beta player. Fighting down the barrows- again for a level 50 pally this would have taken less time solo than it did to fight down in a zerg, go back up and rez, back down again. etc. (I understand im focusing a lot on myself with these points at the moment, bare with me). In short, it was boring. Even for PvE.

2. Adventure: "Adventure is loosely defined as 'a strange or unusual undertaking' ". There is nothing strange or unusual about going down to the barrows, killing a mob, heading back up. Almost every epic quest involves doing this.

3. Just plot: This is probably the reason behind the lack of interest for me. While the plot and the (active)roleplayers say things like "defeat this immense foe". When you get down there the mob is Low-end purple and could be killed solo by virtually anyone.


You bought up the point about quests with rewards already existing, and thats fair enough. Obviously i do these quests in order to gain the rewards, theyre not fun or exciting, but still. However there is no direct GOA Input. Any player, roleplayer or active-roleplayer can do these quests. and get the reward (and the active-roleplayers may even enjoy the quest itself). Yet when GOA take action and make an event, the only ones to really recieve a reward are the active-roleplayers.

You mentioned the Swanton Keep quest: that is exactly my point. A quest that lots of people went on, some had fun actively-roleplaying, it was a challenge for those people who didn't want to roleplay, And if im not mistaken there were rewards? Didn't some people receive a special red cloak? That may have been a different quest.

Again other people have mentioned the Thidranki quest, all three realms took part, was deffiantely a challenge, it was adventureous (as in, my god what the hell happened to thid). And their were rewards (granted stupidly overpowered rewards, but if GOA took the time to do some research im sure they could come up with some rewards worth having, but that would not upset the game mechanics).

I remember back when i was in Lords of England. We got invited to take part in a beta test of an event on Gorre. We had to get a full group together, make our chars on gorre using /level (this was before /level was on live servers). and head to Thid. It was all three realms taking part, 3-4fgs from each realm. i forget which. Think it was SoTL and LoE from Prydwen, and two Albion guilds from Excal.

Anyway the aim of the event was to run to thid keep and steal dragon eggs (or it was something similar, was a long time ago). The eggs had to be taken back to your portal keep.. and all the time you were running into the other realms FG, and had to stop and have a fight. It was amazing fun, and im gutted it never made it onto live servers.


THIS is the kind of GOA-run quest id like to see, something that appeals to EVERYONE. Theyve proved they can do it, i'd like to see it more.
 

Shanaia

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,673
So many words Lamont but they make so much sense... and you know how much I hate to agree with you :(

And I'm glad to see Jjura is open for a discussion ... I have to admit that I didn't expect this from you and I appoligize for that.

Just a little thing Jjura about your point:
Jjura said:
1. Challenge: when i say there was no challenge, i meant nothing extra-ordinary was going on.
The last event (the event this thread is about) involved solving riddles, finding objects, finding npc's and finally beating a monster that Forcefull Zephyred people high up into the air. The monster itself could not be harmed but it could be beaten by defeating smaller versions of it around it. It mezzed/stunned/rooted and as I said FZ'd people away ... quite different then a soloable low level purple and certainly quite challenging... and quite... extra-ordinary

Also the event had special "Fire sticks"... items you could /use to distract mobs by making a magic fire on the ground where you stood. quite original

To bad you missed it ;)
 

Jjuraa

Banned
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Apr 5, 2004
Messages
883
Sounds like fighting the Summoner in PoC :eek: Anyway admittedly i left before it got to that stage. But i was on this event for almost two hours, and nothing happened in that time.. if there is a genuine challenge to be had, i wish it could get to the point a bit faster, or have the people who enjoy roleplaying go on the story-driven part, and then recruit people later to go kill the end mob.
 

Lamont

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jun 8, 2004
Messages
193
Agreed.

I agree Jjuraa, perhaps a few shorter events would make a nice change now and again.

As you know, seemingly slight differences in character makeup, for example TOA skills, fully trained artis, access to a buffbot and spellcrafted gear, can make a huge difference in character effectiveness.

But what you have to understand is that as one of the more 'capable' players, one who has been able to put the time, sub-fees and effort into gaining equipment and skills that give you a distinct advantage over many players on the server, most of these quests will always appear easier and more straightforward to you; disproportionately so in many cases.

But to turn one of your statements back over to you, those unable or unwilling to access such advantages also pay their subs, and as GOA only have finite resources at their disposal with which to create these events they must of course try to cater to the largest proportion of the population.

Those who run the events are mainly volunteers and they are ALSO developing the skills needed to provide good events. With the huge amounts of hard work and coding required to make these events happen however, the rate at which these skills are gained is always going to be slow, and without constructive criticism and specific feedback, we aren't helping them or ourselves much.

Hopefully, even now these 'powers-that-be' are considering everything said on this thread. I'm willing to bet however they get much more info and your point of view much more support from statements like:

THIS is the kind of GOA-run quest id like to see, something that appeals to EVERYONE. Theyve proved they can do it, i'd like to see it more.
and nothing of any use from:

the /em command and a book of poor jokes is all it takes to keep the roleplayer population happy. work on events that everyone will enjoy, not just the roleplayers
Dammit, did we just agree on something? I HATE debates! :mad:
 

Xalin

[GOA] English Servers GM
Joined
Nov 2, 2004
Messages
241
Lamont said:
Hopefully, even now these 'powers-that-be' are considering everything said on this thread.
Oh trust me we are and I picked up some really helpfull insights reading this thread. Thanks guys and I hope to see you at the next event!
 

Jjuraa

Banned
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Apr 5, 2004
Messages
883
Can't say fairer than that then. Cheers for the debate Lamont ;) who says arguing on the internet isnt fun.
 

IainC

English WAR Community Manager
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Apr 21, 2004
Messages
1,862
A couple of points about Goa events.
Firstly, they are primarily designed to enhance the atmosphere of the game and bring various parts of the background story to the attention of the players. Our events are usually based on historical figures and on the ambitions of factions within the game world. They are there to make the game world seem more real to players. That's not specifically aimed at roleplayers but at anyone who wants to learn more about the background of the game - in otherwords the people who actually read quest descriptions rather than just clicking on the keywords.

Secondly as far as challenge is concerned: We write the events in advance and have no way of knowing how many players will turn up or how organised/skilled/efficient those players will be. To some extent we can adjust the difficulty level, but mostly the level is set by our estimates at the time of writing the event. If five players turn up to an event they are going to have a harder time than fifty. If the players go off on a tangent or ignore the clues they are given, the event will take longer. In the case of the Alchemist event, it took some time for players to put the clues together and figure out what they were supposed to do. We could make it easy and just provide a succession of mobs to zerg but that is not particularly challenging, we prefer to provide events that reward thinking and puzzle-solving over having overwhelming numbers I'd say that's challenging - even if the end mob dies in ten seconds to a overbuffed necro pet and a couple of theurgists, getting to that point can still be a challenge. We don't claim that we always get it right, but the general idea when we start to write an event is to provide a mental challenge rather than just a test of how opted your character is, we would rather the event was completable by a few characters with terrible templates who figured out what they had to do, rather than a perfectly opted group who never had to think about the event beyond picking the next target for the assist train.

We tend not to provide ingame rewards for a number of reasons. Primarily it's to be fair. Not everyone can attend the events and they are only run once, not left as static content like normal quests/encounters. If we give something cool away, then players who couldn't make it will cry foul. The rewards we gave out after the Geersha event caused a lot of problems as players complained they were too powerful. Since then we've mostly only given token rewards out - cash, trophy cloaks (with no special powers) and, very occasionally, respec stones. The reward as I said before is the opportunity to take part in a unique event. An encounter for which there is no walkthrough, no easymoding and that no-one else will ever do again. You will be the first and the last people to encounter it. You can feel fuzzy inside about saving your realm from the diabolical scheme of a mortal enemy, or you can just enjoy experiencing a new situation and just playing the game for it's own sake. If you need a specific reward then Goa events are not for you, there is already plenty of content that gives a reward if you push the right buttons, our events are designed to be different to that. If you're looking for an event where you know in advance what you have to do and will give you a tangible ingame reward, you can find a good list here.
 

Levin

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
2,734
Just an idea regarding GOA quests.

I seem to remember with the Geersha invasion that, until the players got their act together and eliminated the threat, there was actually a real and tangible danger of approaching Swanton Keep and Cornwall station. People would start crying out "somebody please do something!!!"

Would it be possible to script events that pose a real and tangible threat to the realm such as the above? For example having the guild of shadows overrun Camelot with street thugs, and until it's been dealt with, the city would be extremely dangerous to enter, meaning no entry into Catacombs from there, and no visiting the respec stone NPC etc. Or something with the threat from below, involving the inconnu crypts being flooded with undead etc. Lots of stuff to take from to lift forward the cool storylines. :)

What i'm after here is - the reward for completing the quest then would be having eliminated a real and present danger that would affect everyone's playing. Order once again restored to the realm, and the questors would be true heroes! A cloak of honour showing that you were there, even if it has no powers on it, would then be a nice reward!

With some proper care taken as not to make the threats TOO bad for low level players, and with ample warnings to enter certain areas, perhaps this could be doable?

Just an idea, nothing more. :D
 

Aeva

Banned
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Apr 15, 2005
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286
Jjuraa I think you need to realise that time and effort were put into these events to make players happy. what you are supposed to enjoy is being part of something that you won't experience again, being united with other players to perform a different task to what you would usually get given. and it wasnt for roleplayers, just because it wasnt what you wanted you felt you had to criticise it? if you didnt like the idea then just dont take part in it, keep your mouth shut and dont ruin the event for anyone else! can it be anymore simpler then that? afaik about 98% of those involved enjoyed and appriciated it.
perhaps when you get a bit older you will realise that :eek:
 

Jjuraa

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883
Aeva said:
just because it wasnt what you wanted you felt you had to criticise it?
Obviously, or nothing would get done about it in future. I used constructive critisism, i backed up my arguments with evidence. I fail to see the problem in expressing my opinion. However if you spot somewhere i went wrong don't hesitate to point it out.
 

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