'gimped' classes needs a boost?

-Freezingwiz-

Fledgling Freddie
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gia said:
This argument is flawed, I can't understand why albs keep using it...

If you take ANY combination of classes in the game, it takes MORE classes in a different realm to match their abilities... this works for any realm and almost every class but very few exceptions.

Easy example here just like yours:

To match ONE sorcerer in mid you need,

Spiritmaster (AE debuffs, Lifetap, Pet)
Healer (Long duration AE mez, mana regen)
Shaman (AE root, dot)
Runemaster (baseline speed, cold/heat/matter debuffs)

The point of this is, big deal if you can't mirror all the abilities a mid group has when you make a group, you are gonna have OTHER things that the usual mid fotm group DOES NOT have.

I think you would need to play against both albs and mids to really understand. When playing only one realm you mainly see what is weak but your strengths are always taken for granted.


he was compairing the standart util on a hib grp with warden, druid, bard, eld + what ever....

Albs need a friar for heat/cold/matter resist, both hibs and mids have that in grp if they make a decent grp...(druid, shammy) albs get a BG/heal gimp aswell witch is nice :)
Albs haven't done that for a long time, simply because albs needed utility from other chars

After more and more fights have turned into ranged fights, albs need NS we need a cabby then aswell, Mids rarely run with a RM, they are in the same "shit" there :p Hibs offen run with a Eld tho

In a caster group with Wizzies etc we need someone to interupt since we don't have 1 pet on each caster/healer so, add a theurgist aswell

Now we have:

1: Friar - resists/BG
2: Cabby - NS/Diease/nukes + pet
3: Theurgist - pbt/pet - interupter
4: Cleric - Heals
5: Cleric - Heals
6: Sorc - CC

this leave a grp free with 2 spots for dmg dealers/BGer/Light tanks/speed5/end/debuffer

with a hib group u could do most of it from less chars ^^ -and get more util

1: Druid - Heals + pet
2: Druid - Heals + CC + pet
3: Warden - Resists/pbt/BG
4: Bard - Speed/End/CC
5: Eld - NS/Diease/Stun/nukes
then u can add 3* stun + self debuffing casters or lighttanks etc etc etc


it takes MORE classes in a different realm to match their abilities

He is compairing grps NOT single classes, I dono how meny times this have been said but if u still haven't gotten it, shutup.... :touch:
 

gia

Fledgling Freddie
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Stop being blind instead of telling me to shut up.

The alb group you just mentioned has as much damage potential if not more than the hib one. It also has better tools for interrupting.

6 classes in that group can be a threat, where as in the hib group 4 classes have close to zero damage.

And the fact that albs NEED NS in range fights is just bullshit. Out of 4 casting classes in alb guess how many have more than 1500 range? ALL of them.

4 casting classes in hib, how many have more than 1500 range? ONE.

You also have many other advantages that I'm not going to bother listing. Of course other realms have their own, I'm afraid the alb list is much longer though.
 

Danamyr

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HerculesPluto said:
give fire wizards some sort of aoe bolt :D and up the rest of the damage :cheers:

Yay! I can't believe you're still playing! Where's the 'Big Sexy Paladin' part gone from your sig? ;)
 

-Freezingwiz-

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gia said:
Stop being blind instead of telling me to shut up.

The alb group you just mentioned has as much damage potential if not more than the hib one. It also has better tools for interrupting.

6 classes in that group can be a threat, where as in the hib group 4 classes have close to zero damage.

And the fact that albs NEED NS in range fights is just bullshit. Out of 4 casting classes in alb guess how many have more than 1500 range? ALL of them.

4 casting classes in hib, how many have more than 1500 range? ONE.

You also have many other advantages that I'm not going to bother listing. Of course other realms have their own, I'm afraid the alb list is much longer though.


ok tell me 1 thing please...


how meny of thoes classes can KILL anything on 1500+ range ?
1, the theurgist, but he have to cast shit loads pets on 1 to kill faster then even the bard can heal...

if u get in 1500 range of a chanter who isn't interupted/NSed he stun-debuff nuke nuke.... and u most likely die in 3 nukes... unless they get a good crit


Stop being blind instead of telling me to shut up
ok, u can try to open u'r eyes again now, cuz I'm not the blind guy


but still if u look u have 3 classes to fill in, albs have 2

and both alrdy have 1 good nuker
 

Flimgoblin

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if the cabbie has decent nearsight they're not going to nuke anywhere near a chanter...

4 chars for your support 4 specialised damage dealres

or 6 chars, 3 of which can do crap damage if they don't do their supporting role, and 2 specialised damage dealers.
 

Fyric

Fledgling Freddie
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so theurgists dont nuke for the same dmg as a light eld.. right, sorc/caba dont have same dmg potential as 2 chanters has, right.. please, if u have anything smart to say at all, please start doing it instead of trying to make a fool of yourself.

tried friar, merc, paladin, sorc, cabalist, theurgust, 2x cleric grp?, in that grp u have 2x bg/grapple, 6 pretty decent damage dealers, highest resists ingame(yes, soul shield/elemental shield on pala stacks with resistbuffs), 2 pets+any amount theurgist can summon, in sorc/merc/paladin/theurgist u have quite abit of very nice ae interuption, most of it not instant granted, but bards mainly use their ae mezz for interuption, or didnt you know?, could also exhange the merc for a reaver for even more interuption, but abit less dmg potential than merc.

just a few suggestions thats quite valid if u got any brain at all, stop whining about albs beeing poorer than anyone else, and use what things u _do_ have that noone else has, its getting quite pathetic to say the least.
 

Javlar

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Summoner said:
Any caster using spec nukes is able nearly 3 shot a caster and 4-5 shots seers. PBAE hurts even more. BD is able to do about the same dmg (with dark base nukes + insta LT) as spec nuker but it costs him a way more power. So BDs run outta power very fast.

I dont think that bd is able to kill anyone only using his LT unless that target lacks healing for like 15-20secs.

Just fyi i 2-shot almost every caster. 3-shots are very rare. And 3-4-shot support.

Light eld that is.
 

Vindicator

One of Freddy's beloved
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Javlar said:
Just fyi i 2-shot almost every caster. 3-shots are very rare. And 3-4-shot support.

Light eld that is.

You must kill alot of Unbuffed People.

A Caster with buffs and semi Decent Equipement can get 1300-1400hps. So your Doing about 700 damage a nuke according to your Statment at around 1.5s /1s ?
 

Dorin

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Flimgoblin said:
if the cabbie has decent nearsight they're not going to nuke anywhere near a chanter...

4 chars for your support 4 specialised damage dealres

or 6 chars, 3 of which can do crap damage if they don't do their supporting role, and 2 specialised damage dealers.

you dont rly need decent nearsight to prevent the enemy nuking back at you.
 

Dorin

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Vindicator said:
You must kill alot of Unbuffed People.

A Caster with buffs and semi Decent Equipement can get 1300-1400hps. So your Doing about 700 damage a nuke according to your Statment at around 1.5s /1s ?

not fully toaed brehon mentalist did perma 438 dmg on me with caped heat + red heat resist buff... and that was rr3 without toa, fully toa-d high rr hibs pretty much nuke for 500-600 + crits against resist buffs. so his statement is kinda true at some point (3 power relics + high rr + toa = ouch)
 

Vasconcelos

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Vindicator said:
You must kill alot of Unbuffed People.

A Caster with buffs and semi Decent Equipement can get 1300-1400hps. So your Doing about 700 damage a nuke according to your Statment at around 1.5s /1s ?

Actually is true (and sad).

Light eld with semi decent ToA gear n some resist pierce, can nuke albs (standard alb grp w/o elemental resist) in the range of 500-700 w/o any probs using the cold spec nuke. That means 2-3 shot a caster n 3-4 shot a support/light tank. Even faster if the eld lands an ae stre/cons debuff.


PS: use a paly with lvl 48 chants for the +20% cold resist ward :)
 

anubis

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Fyric said:
yeah that sounds pretty normal for a light eld

on 42% resist target?
doubt it
dont remember your dmg but garba hits for just a bit under 500, vinters hits for about 450
you should be somewhere inbetween
 

Flimgoblin

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Fyric said:
so theurgists dont nuke for the same dmg as a light eld.. right, sorc/caba dont have same dmg potential as 2 chanters has, right..

since when did sorcs and cabalists have pbaoe?

tried friar, merc, paladin, sorc, cabalist, theurgust, 2x cleric grp?, in that grp u have 2x bg/grapple, 6 pretty decent damage dealers, highest resists ingame(yes, soul shield/elemental shield on pala stacks with resistbuffs), 2 pets+any amount theurgist can summon, in sorc/merc/paladin/theurgist u have quite abit of very nice ae interuption, most of it not instant granted
since when could a sorc aoe interrupt whilst nuking?

oh and soul shield takes power... goes away when the paladin gets mezzed unlike proper resist buffs.

friar damage is nice... when the opponents are unbuffed - compared to a buffed pure tank it's not in the same league.

most theurgs spec earth/ice for the interrupts - they won't be nuking like a light eld unless they spec air.

and yes, it's been tried.

Incidentally we were talking about nearsight - a debuff/nuke cabbie doesn't have nearsight unless they cut their damage.

please, if u have anything smart to say at all, please start doing it instead of trying to make a fool of yourself.

Take your own advice. Oh and throwing random insults at people really backs up your arguments well.
 

Flimgoblin

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Fyric said:
just a few suggestions thats quite valid if u got any brain at all, stop whining about albs beeing poorer than anyone else, and use what things u _do_ have that noone else has, its getting quite pathetic to say the least.

Feel free to reroll alb and show us how it's done...

Though to be honest a 40% change in damage come NF (assuming the relic situation mirrors that of the US servers) might well turn the alb group around ;) at which point a baseline-ice-nuking theurgist with relics might well do the same damage as a light specced eldritch.
 

Fyric

Fledgling Freddie
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i am alb, on pryd tho, noone in their right mind wouldnt spec theurg 45 air, and noone ever pb's anymore, its almost useless, unless when zerging etc.
and somehow i doubt the grapplespamming/bg'ing friar will care much how much dmg he does, theurg+sorc+merc+cabby doing dmg is same dmg potential as bm+bm+light eld+hero, or mebbe im just way off here.
 

Filip

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Fyric said:
i am alb, on pryd tho, noone in their right mind wouldnt spec theurg 45 air, and noone ever pb's anymore, its almost useless, unless when zerging etc.
and somehow i doubt the grapplespamming/bg'ing friar will care much how much dmg he does, theurg+sorc+merc+cabby doing dmg is same dmg potential as bm+bm+light eld+hero, or mebbe im just way off here.

i disquessed this with quite a few ppl ... maybee you can answer me why to use a wind theurg instead of a body sorc ?

you get a better mezz.
ability to charm a green pet (maybee even buff it)
Shit loads of instant str/con/dec/quick debuff's
same delve and cast time on nuke..
lifetap nuke
same possiblity to work with a cabby
possibility to debuff for a fire wizz
AE root
-25% self dur mezz or speed..

only 2 things you loose as i see it..

you loose earth/wind pets
and 10 sec pbt..

earth/wind pets is a big deal to loose .. 10 sec pbt is nothing..

so is earth/wind pets really worth all that ... imho not.. the prober use of paboe and BG can negilify the melee pets...
 

Vasconcelos

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Filip said:
i disquessed this with quite a few ppl ... maybee you can answer me why to use a wind theurg instead of a body sorc ?

you get a better mezz.
ability to charm a green pet (maybee even buff it)
Shit loads of instant str/con/dec/quick debuff's
same delve and cast time on nuke..
lifetap nuke
same possiblity to work with a cabby
possibility to debuff for a fire wizz
AE root
-25% self dur mezz or speed..

only 2 things you loose as i see it..

you loose earth/wind pets
and 10 sec pbt..

earth/wind pets is a big deal to loose .. 10 sec pbt is nothing..

so is earth/wind pets really worth all that ... imho not.. the prober use of paboe and BG can negilify the melee pets...


EB+Haste tanks (merc with eb+haste >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> normal merc)
Air Pets (pain in the ass)
lvl 45 spec nuke spirit based > body based nuke (specially against hibs)

Aoe debuffs are redundant with 2 sorcs, meaning one of em wont using em. Un cc'able pet spamm is way better than green pet
 

RaiztliN

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Vindicator said:
No you didnt miss anything. Other than the fact that poor Herjulf is as about as clueless as they come. Personally I think Mythic go to him with Suggestions and realm balances most of the time.

Mythic Designer * Ring Ring

Herjulf:" hello Mythic I saw your Number on my Caller I.D"

Mythic Designer:" Hey there Herjulf, listen wer in a bit of a pickle here could use your insight and excellent judge of balance."

Herjulf:" Sure but I hope its about midgard?"

Mythic Designer:" Heh yes of course, We have a new class we want to make. Basically we dont think Zerkers are strong enough and we are going to have to reduce LA damage so we wer thinking of bringing in a Class that Still has Determination and Light tank RA's. Same Armor table. Give them self buffs that raise there Damage cap, Increase there weapon speed to haste, an instant shout to interupt, 50% melee resist's when needed, a Parry buff 2 just incase somebody is stupid enough to attack them, advanced evade of course and the highest Growth rate styles in the game. With the only positional 9s stun in migard 2 as a 2nd in chain move + a 4s rear stun incase the player isnt good enough to land it. What do you think ?

Herjulf:" Hmmm well after carefully considering it, with balance in mind 2, yes its ok but couldnt you give them instant heals and maybe a instant kill button with 30 sec timer to counter act Flurry?

Mythic Designer" Oh thats excellent great. We will try get your ideas in to but you know them damn whiners heh! ok thanks will be calling again for more superb Idea's!

Herjulf:" No problem, I will be here Eating my Brain food < Fish> thinking up Fresh idea's to balance Midgard. Just doing what I can with what I got ahh "

:m00:

< And please dont somebody say " omg ffs tbh another savage whine" I only used that as example I could have been Thane if they were maybe a little but more uber xD>


ROFL
 

Filip

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Vasconcelos said:
EB+Haste tanks (merc with eb+haste >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> normal merc)
Air Pets (pain in the ass)
lvl 45 spec nuke spirit based > body based nuke (specially against hibs)

Aoe debuffs are redundant with 2 sorcs, meaning one of em wont using em. Un cc'able pet spamm is way better than green pet

ya the EB/haste is good .. allthough how much melee dam is dished out nower days from alb groups ?

maybee there is a point in the spirit based nuke .. has to check it out ... if i ever get my selv to log back in :)

and about the un CC'able pet spamm ... an ice theurg is way better as a petter than a wind theug becuase of the option with ice pets... (on my theurg i got 9 in wind just to get stun pets... but i find that a combo of ice and earth pets most of the time does a better job ..

i have no doubth a wind theug is a nice caster ... just untill i tryed it i would consider it not the first choise if i wanted to play a nuker..

allso i forgot 1 major point of using a sorc as nuker instead ... they demezz .. theurg's dont..
 

Unalive

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Well look at it this way, 45 wind 29 ice.. you get aoe mezz/aoe root, stun pets and nuker pets. Ice pets still do around 100~ dmg per nuke which is fine to interupt those targeting being bg'd. Stun pets are great for stunning the healers as well so they carnt insta.
I dont miss earth pets at all I been finding 8s pbt is fairly useless tbh.. much better nuke with air spec as well guess it just depends on your playstyle.
 

Aeicaan

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-Freezingwiz- said:
1: Friar - resists/BG
2: Cabby - NS/Diease/nukes + pet
3: Theurgist - pbt/pet - interupter
4: Cleric - Heals
5: Cleric - Heals
6: Sorc - CC


then u can add 3* stun + self debuffing casters or lighttanks etc etc etc

in that group albs got 2 castable stuns and 1 self debuff and a lighttank allready
 

Votan

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Lol if savages are nuclear power plants then armsmen & women are wind turbines which are missing a blade or two :twak:
 

-Freezingwiz-

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Aeicaan said:
in that group albs got 2 castable stuns and 1 self debuff and a lighttank allready

hmmm friar = light tank ?... nope not really... a light tank is a merc/BM/Zerk
1 self debuffer... yes, but a 3 specced = 30% debuff and only about 30 in body spec aswell... no where close to a chanter :twak:
 

-Freezingwiz-

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Vindicator said:
You must kill alot of Unbuffed People.

A Caster with buffs and semi Decent Equipement can get 1300-1400hps. So your Doing about 700 damage a nuke according to your Statment at around 1.5s /1s ?

well as a gimp wiz assisting on a body sorc I can do this.... with 15% resist pirce & 50% debuff

if a light eld get loads of resist pirceing vs ppl with out pally/friar he get close to 700 for sure :p

firedebuff.JPG
 

Fyric

Fledgling Freddie
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heres the thing:
sorc/caba works as a team, and the theurg is more or less freestyle and does as he pleases, good theurg can take out enemy caster in 3-4 nukes(with good pierce etc), sorc and cabba, well i wont even come into the dmg potential/survivability of these 2 classes with moc+lifetap nuking etc.

caba alone kills enemies as fast as a chanter does too(if we dont take into account the relics).

and its very hard for the enemy chanter todo anything else than killing theurgist pets if you want him todo that considering stacking up as any realm is pure suicide nowadays cuz of the immense amount of ae cc'ing going on.

was there anything else?
 

Filip

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was there anything else?

hehe you got eiltetitis ? i dunno to feel sad or laugh at you guys.

i think the ardok answer was way better.. keeping the air pets. If i start playing again i will try to respec my theurg to wind/cold... allthough my toa template is made for a petter theurg ..
 

Fyric

Fledgling Freddie
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not really no, just curious if there was some other question he asked that i missed
 

Xsorus-Merlin

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LOL, The fact you guys are losing to 3 savage groups speaks volumes of the players on this server.

NF is going to be a big smack in the face of most of you that is certain

Oh yea, Roll lots of Champions/Friars
 

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