Politics General Election 2017

[Gwadien]

Amazing innit.

Embattle be like stop blindly defending Corbyn.

Don't touch my precious Tory party though!!!!

 

[Gwadien]

Case and point.

Radio host hit in face in 'racist attack'

 

[Scouse]

I'm clearly not blindly defending Corbyn (I don't want to defend him at all) - I just think that given the wider picture the antisemitic noise is largely bullshit, as it's being applied to the labour party.

And it's so front and centre...

 

[Wij]

Labour got their biggest jump in the vote in, like, 60 years. I think, despite everything, he clearly could win - but the thing that is stopping him is the splitters in the Labour party. The arguing and sniping from the sidelines and constant undermining is the thing that makes Labour a big enough joke to stop them getting across the line...

He did not win. He was leant votes by remain-friendly voters who assumed he was playing the long game or something. His ratings have tanked among EU-supporters and the young since then. He hasn't got a hope even against the current shower of shit Tory government. His actual members that he is supposed to represent feel betrayed by him on Brexit and many other issues. But somehow it's all about the MPs who have left the party? It's all their fault? Not following your leader blindly is a betrayal now despite the fact that is what Corbyn has ALWAYS done.

You (and Gwad) keep making the same argument and it keeps not making sense.

 

[Wij]

I'd like to see more done about racism in the Tory party it's clearly way more prevalent, but no, let's focus on people criticising Israel.

I'm happy to criticise the Tories too. That doesn't mean I can't criticise Corbyn.

 

[Scouse]

@Wij - I'm not really making that argument (in context). I'm not actually interested in anything other than the antisemitism bullshit. So I'm not holding hard to any particular PoV other than the one I'm interested in...

...there's no party in government that remotely represents me. So it's hard to give a fuck.

 

[Bodhi]

So after 2 pages, it appears he is still a terrorist sympathising anti-Semite.

Cool.

 

[Embattle]

Strangely satisfying to stick my Twickenham Gazette in the Shredder.

 

[Gwadien]

Meanwhile Israel is reminding everyone they're anti-Semitic, probably planning an offensive in Gaza or something.

Israel summit falls apart in 'racism' row

 

[Scouse]

Israel in making wide-ranging generalisations about all people from a geographical region in a hypocritical non-shocker.

 

[Embattle]

Strangely satisfying to stick my Twickenham Gazette in the Shredder.

I did read the article about the 20 mph plans which got worse when I read the local council information about it, in the end I got very annoyed and it reminded me why I shouldn't bother nor be surprised when you get such disinterest in politics - Amended 20mph limit set to go to Scrutiny and Cabinet for approval - London Borough of Richmond upon Thames

 

[Wij]

Oh, and add 'asking questions about Vote Leave and Leave.EU breaking the law' to the list of things people wanted Corbyn to do but it didn't suit him.

 

[Scouse]

Oh, and add 'asking questions about Vote Leave and Leave.EU breaking the law' to the list of things people wanted Corbyn to do but it didn't suit him.

Did the brexiteers (the majority who won the vote) want him to do that?

I get that Brexit is on your mind but how (and why) do you expect the minority party to fix it? All they can do is present their alternatives whilst respecting the fact that a majority of blighty voted to leave.

Plus - what about all the other shit that's being ignored due ro brexit that's going on that Labour are focussing on?

 

[Wij]

Did the brexiteers (the majority who won the vote) want him to do that?

His party members and voters are not majority Brexiteers. He should be representing their interests.

His job is to hold the government's balls to the fire. He is neglecting that.

The fact that if he pressed on the lawbreaking by the leave campaigns it might well lead to the door of government ministers or leading Tories should be the icing on the cake. It's an open goal.

'Nah, can't be arsed m8'

 

[Scouse]

His job is to hold the government's balls to the fire. He is neglecting that.

Well, if he's failing on the above, at least he's attempting to succeed on a much thornier problem, that successive governments the world over are failing on.

Not saying that Luciana Berger's involvement in the Labour Friends Of Israel isn't genuine - but the overstated problem (*tiny* numbers compared to membership) is proving a totally unnecessary distraction to local (UK) politics when we desparately need them to be focussed elsewhere.

Aside from clearly stating being anti-Israel is to be antisemitic - The Times of Israel reported this:

Were Labour led by a more widely trusted leader — May scored 38% to Corbyn’s 24% in a recent poll on who would make the best PM — Labour would be a shoo-in. Instead, all bets are off, but Labour’s reputation and credibility are clearly overshadowed by its anti-Semitism problem; 46% of respondents to a poll in September said that anti-Semitism was the most common subject people associate with Corbyn’s party

It's a succesful tactic that's totally tying up Labour's time. So if you want to understand why Corbyn isn't weighing into the Tories more heavily - then look at the Israel lobby for waging such an effective campaign.

If they can keep the Americans quiet (and they do) then the UK is a doddle.

 

[Wij]

Well, if he's failing on the above, at least he's attempting to succeed on a much thornier problem, that successive governments the world over are failing on.

Not saying that Luciana Berger's involvement in the Labour Friends Of Israel isn't genuine - but the overstated problem (*tiny* numbers compared to membership) is proving a totally unnecessary distraction to local (UK) politics when we desparately need them to be focussed elsewhere.

Aside from clearly stating being anti-Israel is to be antisemitic - The Times of Israel reported this:


It's a succesful tactic that's totally tying up Labour's time. So if you want to understand why Corbyn isn't weighing into the Tories more heavily - then look at the Israel lobby for waging such an effective campaign.

If they can keep the Americans quiet (and they do) then the UK is a doddle.

So basically everything can be blamed on Israel?

 

[Scouse]

So basically everything can be blamed on Israel?

Why jump to the extreme? It's not everything, but you'd be being completely dishonest if you tried to say it's not a major factor.

 

[Gwadien]

Seems to be a theme here

Eighth MP quits Labour for Independent Group

She was chair of the Labour Friends of Israel (LFI)

She repeated Ms Berger's claim that the party had become "institutionally anti-Semitic", suggesting that under Mr Corbyn's leadership Israel had been "singled out for demonisation and de-legitimisation".

 

[Scouse]

Good on him. Keep the pressure up. That cunt of a country can't continue to have us turn a blind eye to the atrocities it continues to perpetrate.

Smearing everyone with the anti-semite brush for criticising a state is starting to get stale and beginning to backfire.

 

[Gwadien]

Smearing everyone with the anti-semite brush for criticising a state is starting to get stale and beginning to backfire.

I wish this was true.

Look at the response from usually reasonable people on this very forum

 

[Wij]

The return of King Rat Derek Hatton marks a new low for Labour

 

[Wij]

Ok. That problems sorted then:


View: https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/11763688769

 

[Wij]

Like two peas in a pod. UKIP through and through:


View: https://twitter.com/Piers_Corbyn/status/1066561373440802816

 

[Gwadien]

Wow.

Actual wow.

 

[Wij]

Not really helping their cause by implying shadowy wealthy Jews may be behind the whole thing:


View: https://twitter.com/michaeldweiss/status/1098038349254733825

 

[Gwadien]

Not shadowy Jews, Shadowy Israelis who don't want their fascist state to be criticised.

As I said though, they're feeding the antisemitism, they keep saying anti-semitism, but all the pro Corbyn people keep saying where? All I see is anti-israel stuff, and there's never a good response its always STFU YOU ANTI SEMITE.

British MPs who care about Israel more than the UK. Hm.

Even the article you posted says 'Israelis' not 'Jews'.

Come the fuck on man.

 

[Wij]

Not shadowy Jews, Shadowy Israelis who don't want their fascist state to be criticised.

As I said though, they're feeding the antisemitism, they keep saying anti-semitism, but all the pro Corbyn people keep saying where? All I see is anti-israel stuff, and there's never a good response its always STFU YOU ANTI SEMITE.

British MPs who care about Israel more than the UK. Hm.

Even the article you posted says 'Israelis' not 'Jews'.

Come the fuck on man.

And you are conflating support for Israel per se with support for Netenyahu's regime. Demonising anyone who thinks Israel has a right to exist but might not necessarily think that its current actions are all brilliant.

And implying that some secretive Jews are covertly pulling financial strings.

 

[Wij]

Labour increasingly tolerant of the hard right:


View: https://twitter.com/andywigmore/status/1097946246277402625

 

[Job]

Like two peas in a pod. UKIP through and through:


View: https://twitter.com/Piers_Corbyn/status/1066561373440802816

As usual hindsight is wonderful.
The Nazis didnt start with killing jews and world war on the manifesto..they set out similar goals and justified conquest with the good of Europe.
Its a very accurate comparison....flag waving for a German led empire.

What do you think is down the road as Islam starts to get its ultra conservative grip on European politics.
Jews will start emigrating to America...hmmmmm.

This liberal orgy of inclusion is simply a prelude to a massive backlash.

 

[Gwadien]

And you are conflating support for Israel per se with support for Netenyahu's regime. Demonising anyone who thinks Israel has a right to exist but might not necessarily think that its current actions are all brilliant.

And implying that some secretive Jews are covertly pulling financial strings.

Israel has always adopted Netenyahu's policies though.

No, I am implying that a group of MPs who are more bothered about Israel than they are their own party has undermined British politics for a very long time.

Personally? Israel has a right to exist, and they absolutely have a right to defend theirselves, but they've shown time and time again that they have very little respect for non-Israelis around them, abusing their position that has been given to them in a post-holocaust world, they know that, everyone knows that, that's why they're so desperate to keep that identity and routinely accuse other countries of Antisemitism.

If anything the actions of Israel, being the only Jewish country, are causing anti-Israel views to transfer to anti-Jewish views.

I also believe that Israel needs to be the ones to lead a peaceful approach with the Palestinians, because after growing up in a war zone, most Palestinians are understandably hostile towards Israel.