Politics General Election 2017

[DaGaffer]

Cant happen. Too many ways around it.

Wait till they start looking at people's credit card bills for evidence of VPN purchases.

It doesn't really matter that there are ways around this; it's both a. Draconian and pointless, and b. Will have a chilling effect on tech inward investment at exactly the wrong time for Britain. Google & Facebook might bend over for access to a market of a billion Chinese, they might be a bit more reluctant for 60m post-Brexit Brits.

 

[Tom]

"Hey, you! Yes, you in that other country over which we have no jurisdiction! Yes, you! Turn that thing off, it's illegal in our country! What? You said no? Well, we'll see about that! *stomps upstairs to bedroom*"

 

[BloodOmen]

 

[Job]

I don't understand this raising nurse wages...surely Labour just wants to let in loads of nurses from poorer countries who will work for less.

 

[Himse]

Very eloquent.

I haven't got round to flicking through the Tory manifesto yet, but reading some comments it seems very underwhelming.

 

[Wij]

What this misses is the experience of everyday Labour MPs and other party members (of which I know many personally and follow others on Twitter) who have tried to engage Corbyn on action, direction etc and have been met with dithering, indifference and scorn. He is a man of protest, but only against certain targets, weak against others that are terrible but who he thinks he has common enemies with.

Fuck him. He's a dick.

(Doesn't mean I will vote Tory. Corbyn is happy with the tribalism of binary politics. I'm not.)

/edit: And he still wants hard-Brexit. Cunt.

 

[BloodOmen]

What this misses is the experience of everyday Labour MPs and other party members (of which I know many personally and follow others on Twitter) who have tried to engage Corbyn on action, direction etc and have been met with dithering, indifference and scorn. He is a man of protest, but only against certain targets, weak against others that are terrible but who he thinks he has common enemies with.

Fuck him. He's a dick.

(Doesn't mean I will vote Tory. Corbyn is happy with the tribalism of binary politics. I'm not.)

/edit: And he still wants hard-Brexit. Cunt.

In that regard - I'd still vote Labour if I were you, what's the alternatives? not voting at all, UKIP? Greens? I'd rather give Corbyn a chance than let the Tories continue gutting the country. I fully intend on voting Labour myself.

 

[DaGaffer]

In that regard - I'd still vote Labour if I were you, what's the alternatives? not voting at all, UKIP? Greens? I'd rather give Corbyn a chance than let the Tories continue gutting the country. I fully intend on voting Labour myself.

Libdems. Despite the Christian, despite the whole "they let us down with the coalition" stuff, they're the only ones not advocating hard Brexit. Brexit is happening no matter what, but that doesn't mean you have to repeatedly punch yourself in the face while doing it, which is May and Corbyn's view.

 

[dysfunction]

Im definitely leaning towards voting LibDem. Labour under Corbyn is going nowhere and the Tories under May are dreadful.

 

[Raven]

The Torys could all come out as lizardmen and would still win, the way Labour are imploding.

Labour front bench row over Trident commitment - BBC News

 

[Bodhi]

In that regard - I'd still vote Labour if I were you, what's the alternatives? not voting at all, UKIP? Greens? I'd rather give Corbyn a chance than let the Tories continue gutting the country. I fully intend on voting Labour myself.

Even though he doesn't plan on reversing half the welfare cuts you've spent the past 2 years moaning about? Interesting.

Must admit after seeing the Tory manifesto I'm a little confused as to who the hell to vote for, far too much Nanny State bullshit in there for my liking, but then the other parties are a joke as well, so meh. Time to see if Monster Raving Loonies have a candidate in Stafford tbh.

 

[Scouse]

At least they'll reverse some and not up taxes for 95% of us.

But don't kid yerself @Bodhi. You love the Tories

 

[Bodhi]

At least they'll reverse some and not up taxes for 95% of us.

But don't kid yerself @Bodhi. You love the Tories

Labour will as well, just not directly. Unless you're of the opinion Corporation Tax is paid for by businesses and not their customers or employees?

 

[Scouse]

Labour will as well, just not directly. Unless you're of the opinion Corporation Tax is paid for by businesses and not their customers or employees?

Corporation tax is a tax on the profits that companies make from the sale of their goods and services. If goods and services become more expensive because of the levying of corporation tax then consumers have a choice whether to continue buy them in such quantities.

Through this consumer choice the market will decide what is important to us and what isn't and companies providing the greatest value to the greatest number of people will continue to thrive whereas companies that offer goods or services of marginal value will take a hit.

Income tax or national insurance rises deny us that choice. If the end result is that I'm going to have less disposable income either way I'd much rather be taxed indirectly through my purchasing decisions than having it taken directly out of my pocket, denying me that choice.

 

[Wij]

Corporation Tax would hit me more than Income Tax or NI but I'd pay it to vote for a party that had a clue. Labour under Corbyn is not a party that has a clue. Hard Brexit will make the whole country poorer. Can't pay for Health, Education and Social Care then.

 

[Talivar]

I work with Teachers, Social Care, Police and other similar services so 100% has to be Labour for me

 

[Scouse]

Corporation Tax would hit me more than Income Tax or NI but I'd pay it to vote for a party that had a clue. Labour under Corbyn is not a party that has a clue. Hard Brexit will make the whole country poorer. Can't pay for Health, Education and Social Care then.

Totally agree with this. (With the addendum that the Tories are going there too)

My comment was more on what type of tax is fairer. Corp. tax is a better form of taxation.

 

[Gwadien]

2 million voters registered since the election was called, vast majority young people, the vast majority labour too I'd wager.

I genuinely think people should stop and think about this election, rather than writing Labour off straight away..

The Tories are treating like everyone like they're mugs, because they're unrivaled I think it's about time we say 'fuck you' to them.

It's not like Corbyn will be able to turn the UK into a communist state, his policies aren't really that radical. I genuinely think that they are quite 'new labour' but because the media has demonised Corbyn people think they're socialist.

Renationalised services won't actually happen...

 

[Hawkwind]

Personally, I wrote them off years ago and not much has changed policy wise. Fact is that if he does half of what he says they are going to do, taxes will rise and the country will be borrowing again to pay for it all. Given Brexit and the economy the numbers just don't add up for me.

 

[Job]

It's there for May to lose...down in Loughborough with the wifes sister and all her senior management friends, politics main subject of conversation and everyone of them turning on the Tories.

 

[JBP|]

As I voted remain in the referendum I'll be voting Lib Den in this election.
Also 1p in the £ across the board is the fairest way to pay for the NHS/social care in my opinion, I just don't think 1p is enough though.

 

[Raven]

It is difficult to soak up corporation tax as a cost because it is a tax on profit, the cost cannot be passed on to the customer, nor the staff through wage cuts (wages don't actually get cut btw, they just don't increase as much as inflation) The only way to pay less is to lower profit, not increase it, which is self defeating. The reason Amazon pay a relatively low amount of corp tax is because over the last decade they have been ploughing profit into expansion and development, creating jobs and so on. It might make a good headline for shitrag papers but in reality its pretty fair and logical.

It can however make companies that offer a service and can essentially operate anywhere, think twice about where they are based, places like financial markets, support and so on. Things that are important to our economy.

Stupid idea.

Edit, a tax on turnover would never work either because of high turnover/low profit companies, the cost would be rammed right up the customers arse.

 

[Raven]

Edit2. A tax on margin might work but would be incredibly complicated to manage and would be so open to abuse it would not be worth it.

 

[Talivar]

I just find it bizarre how more people are not concerned with the slow and steady destruction of the Public Services. Surely this effects everyone in some way as we all use Police, NHS, Schools, Fire Brigade, Family Services, Social Service ect. At a guess some responses will tell me that the Public Sector is useless and just full of pointless jobs on high wages but they are not the ones being cut and squeezed. The councils and the Government seem happy to keep employing those people and raising their wages, its the front line staff that are taking the cuts.

 

[Scouse]

It's not like Corbyn will be able to turn the UK into a communist state

Post-Brexit he could if he had enough of a mandate. That's why he supports brexit - membership of the EU precludes running anything but a capitalist economic system.

So technically he could. But he wouldn't

 

[Raven]

I just find it bizarre how more people are not concerned with the slow and steady destruction of the Public Services. Surely this effects everyone in some way as we all use Police, NHS, Schools, Fire Brigade, Family Services, Social Service ect. At a guess some responses will tell me that the Public Sector is useless and just full of pointless jobs on high wages but they are not the ones being cut and squeezed. The councils and the Government seem happy to keep employing those people and raising their wages, its the front line staff that are taking the cuts.

Government don't decide who is got rid of and who is kept on (well, up to a point). If the different organisations wilfully continue to employ chair warmers then it is those you should be going after. We cannot spend what we do not have.

The Torys are cunts, don't get me wrong but they are certainly not the ones that hired the army of mid management wastes of skin. Funnily enough it is still a hang up from the Blair/Brown years where they bought and paid for an electorate.

The public services need a change in culture.

 

[Talivar]

Ive not seen the Tories even begin to talk about tackling management within the Public Sector tho, its always about the front line staff and the nonsense fairy tale they keep telling everyone about how they are actually much better off now under the conservatives ect. The reality is front line public sector staff are far far far worse off and expected to do much more and STILL many people sneer at them because they beleive the lies and think these Front liners have easy well paid jobs

 

[Raven]

Well, up to 2014 the average public sector wage was higher than private. Then add on much more attractive pensions, sick pay, holiday entitlement, shorter working hours, a limpet like ability to remain in employment after poor performance etc (Couldn't find more up to date figures but there doesn't appear to be a reason for them to have changed)

https://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/comms/r97.pdf

Then add on the vast amount of people employed, (nearly 10% of the total population) 6.5 million, in 2010...doing what? All we hear about is worsening services.

Public sector employment, UK - Office for National Statistics

I cannot find anything on staff ratios from a quick search but anecdotally it is higher, there are roughly 15-20 staff per management level position where I have worked over the last 20 years, its far fewer staff to management in the public sector.

When I fuck up the company loses money, people lose jobs etc when someone in the public sector fucks up they get a nice fat wedge of cash and moved on.

 

[Talivar]

Only the management, when Front Line fuck up they are sacked same as private sector and the wages thing is a reflection of management wages not front line. Family Services get about £20k , Social Workers get about £26k ect. Working hours for me i suppose is ok as full time classed as 37 hours but many of the other Front liners like Social Workers end up doing 50-60+ easily for no extra pay. Annual leave is about 4 weeks per year so thats good and the sickness pay is good but these are things that are slowly being removed, or atleast they are trying to remove them.
Also when we fuck up children die or are hurt and neglected so the pay certainly does not reflect the level of responsibility

 

[Embattle]

As I voted remain in the referendum I'll be voting Lib Den in this election.
Also 1p in the £ across the board is the fairest way to pay for the NHS/social care in my opinion, I just don't think 1p is enough though.

It isn't, even using their own figures it'll bring in £6.6bn on top of the £150bn that is roughly spent already on health each year.

In reality it needs to be tackled from all directions including providing more money, improve efficiency and people actually taking fucking responsibility for their own health.