Politics General Election 2017

[Bodhi]

What shit would that be? Last time I checked, Lloyds paid it back and it was only RBS that's still a big bag of shite.

"I'm sorry, but there is no money left".

That shit.

 

[old.Osy]

How is the quality of a health care system linked to the life expectancy?

Is that a serious question? If so, your failure to recognize the link drives me to think that maybe you are not so intelligent.

 

[old.user4556]

"I'm sorry, but there is no money left".

That shit.

I think Gaff's post sums it up.

You're missing the point. The Tories are running policy off the back of the debt the country had to shoulder after the banking crisis; the logic going that the country should be fiscally responsible and run a surplus so there's money on hand to cope with economic downturns/shocks etc. and this is now accepted as the only way the economy can be handled. The reality is that even running a regular surplus wouldn't have reduced the impact of the banking crisis materially. The country has only run a surplus eight times in the last 62 years and on each occasion its been a pretty modest one (handful of billions at best). Yes, Labour, particularly under Gordon Brown, were spending too much (although it looks worse than it was because the objective was to run public spending as a percentage of GDP at the same level as other EU countries and he did it too quickly and crashed into the banking crisis at exactly the wrong time; borrowing was due to start reducing again in 2009), but even in their worst year the deficit was still only one twelfth of the cost of the bank bailout. The Tories would need to run a surplus for a hundred years to have the money on hand to deal with that kind of financial shock, and they know it. That's my point, the issue is no longer about economics, its about ideology, and the hard rightists of the Tories who run the show would be happy to see to everything run by the market, even when it demonstrably doesn't help the majority of people - particularly in healthcare and education.

 

[Gwadien]

Is that a serious question? If so, your failure to recognize the link drives me to think that maybe you are not so intelligent.

Because life choices > health care in the vast majority of cases, IMO.

For example, Leicester has one of the lowest life expectancies in the UK however the neighbouring super wealthy county of Rutland is the highest. Difference? Money.

 

[Scouse]

Queue incoming legislation from all parties that will dramatically weaken our safety.

Some serious shit that. NHS ffs

 

[Scouse]

 

[Tom]

that's why foodbank use is at record levels (which might I add only happened SINCE the tories came to power)

This is partly because in around 2013 job centres began referring people to food banks, where previously they did not. Delegation of responsibility for crisis payments being moved from central government to local councils also has an affect. And obviously, a huge increase in the number of food banks means that more people will be using them.

I'd like to see statistics on the use of food banks per capita. Because just as the government now says "more people in work than ever before" (because the population has never been higher), I suspect that when it comes to food banks, there's some dodgy statistics being used for political gain. And I'm genuinely not having a go at the food bank system - I filmed in one and watching people in there at their lowest point was quite upsetting.

 

[Job]

The wife volunteered in a foodbank a few years ago, she said lots of the men who came in..in fact on the day, pretty well all of them, were divorced or seperated men who had lost the house and kids to the wife.

 

[Raven]

Everyone should donate food to food banks, roughly 5-10% of my food shopping gets donated each week through the wife's work.

If the government are not going to help or the society we are in wont help then it is our responsibility to do so.

More does need to be done re eligibility tests though, if you can't afford to eat because you spent all your money on ciggies and Sky TV then you should get precisely fuck all.

 

[Bodhi]

YouGov | Regional voting intentions show Tory tide rising across country

If that's even halfway accurate it's going to be a bloodbath for Comrade Corbyn and his Trotskyist mates.

Which is a shame.

 

[Raven]

Hopefully a fit for purpose Labour party emerges...as in a functional opposition.

I think they are basically fucked for decades now though.

 

[BloodOmen]

This is partly because in around 2013 job centres began referring people to food banks, where previously they did not. Delegation of responsibility for crisis payments being moved from central government to local councils also has an affect. And obviously, a huge increase in the number of food banks means that more people will be using them.

I'd like to see statistics on the use of food banks per capita. Because just as the government now says "more people in work than ever before" (because the population has never been higher), I suspect that when it comes to food banks, there's some dodgy statistics being used for political gain. And I'm genuinely not having a go at the food bank system - I filmed in one and watching people in there at their lowest point was quite upsetting.

The Trussell Trust - End of Year Stats

I'm sure there are plenty of other sources dotted around the internet

 

[Gwadien]

This is partly because in around 2013 job centres began referring people to food banks, where previously they did not. Delegation of responsibility for crisis payments being moved from central government to local councils also has an affect. And obviously, a huge increase in the number of food banks means that more people will be using them.

I'd like to see statistics on the use of food banks per capita. Because just as the government now says "more people in work than ever before" (because the population has never been higher), I suspect that when it comes to food banks, there's some dodgy statistics being used for political gain. And I'm genuinely not having a go at the food bank system - I filmed in one and watching people in there at their lowest point was quite upsetting.

More specifically;

• Foodbanks in areas of full Universal Credit rollout to single people, couples and families, have seen a 16.85% average increase in referrals for emergency food, more than double the national average of 6.64%.

So yeah, there's some credibility in your argument it just doesn't explain the colossal increase though.

I'd like to know how many people use foodbanks after watching a political debate where the opposition drop that in

 

[Tom]

The Trussell Trust - End of Year Stats

I'm sure there are plenty of other sources dotted around the internet

Those don't really tell us anything though. What you need are statistics that show the percentage of the population that uses foodbanks, tracked against foodbank availability. Realistically, only someone like the ONS could do that.

 

[Job]

Why are foodbanks an issue..is it simply the perception of some kind of soup kitchen poverty.
People ate on handouts all over the country...working families get money to survive..but it quietly goes into a bank account..imagine the uproar if everyone had to go to a stall in the town centre and queue for cash handouts.
That'd bring the benefit bill down overnight.

 

[Gwadien]

Why are foodbanks an issue..is it simply the perception of some kind of soup kitchen poverty.
People ate on handouts all over the country...working families get money to survive..but it quietly goes into a bank account..imagine the uproar if everyone had to go to a stall in the town centre and queue for cash handouts.
That'd bring the benefit bill down overnight.

I thought we were beyond Victorian philanthropy.

 

[Job]

Well food banks are like US food stamps..they could just give you the money, but they dont trust you.

 

[Himse]

The endless cycle of bullshit until one pleb wins the election.

I'm excited for this to be over so I can more than likely be shafted by whatever party wins in some form or other, whether it be my health or my pocket.

 

[Hawkwind]

 

[Raven]

To me, To you.

General election 2017: Len McCluskey 'now optimistic Labour can win' - BBC News

 

[old.user4556]

Labour and Tory coalition? LELS.

Labour threatens to suspend Aberdeen councillors over Tory coalition - BBC News

 

[Raven]

I do wish they would stop with the party politics bollocks in councils, it really doesn't help local issues, at all.

 

[Raven]

I have this horrible feeling I might end up voting Lib Dems as my own little fuck you to May and Corbyn.

 

[caLLous]

(Switched threads to appease people who started talking about social care in the UK in the EU thread but now don't think it's an appropriate place for the discussion - which is probably right.)

Whatever you earn in your life will be used to pay for a nursing home. Then you will die.

"It will promise no-one will have to sell their property in their lifetime to fund residential or home care."

Oh, so what you are essentially saying is that they don't force you to sell stuff to pay for care? I wish someone had told my granddad that before he went into a home for 3 years.

That seems to be pretty much exactly what this manifesto is saying, yes.

 

[Raven]

Actually, you are the one that posted a story predominantly about Tory bastardness (none of which is at all related to the EU or Brexit, at all) in the EU thread, a bit of offtopic is fine so long as its not a desperate attempt to pin it on Brexit...which I am sure you would never do, oh no. Only a bitter little man stuck in 2016 would do that.

The change in the goalposts means precisely dick, stuff still has to be sold to pay for what should have already been paid for through tax and NI. And like I said, deferral is an option now, under existing legislation but logically what would you do? You have to sell it now or in 3, 4, 5 years? Option A, you sell it now, option 2 you pay for the upkeep of a house that will remain empty and you will likely never see again for 3, 4, 5 years?

 

[caLLous]

Lol, I posted it in that thread to continue the discussion ("thingsone particular thing will be the same in 2020 as in 2010") where it started. It's got fuck all to do with Brexit, which is why it's now here.

I was highlighting the fact that things* might not stay the same because you said one particular thing that would and then, just 2 days later, the Tories say they are going to make changes. Therefore nobody can predict how things* will be in 2020.

To sit there with your pompous Brexit hat on and say that things* will be the same is bloody ridiculous.

* the general, all-encompassing definition in which it was originally used in the other thread.

 

[Raven]

erm. You do realise the post was in response to a post asking what would change post-brexit...right? You do understand that a thread is like a conversation, not just a series of random statements? right?

Its like speaking with someone who has recently had a head injury.

The change (you have picked one out of several discussed in the article in a desperate attempt to score points) is not a change at all, you can do it now. Not that it is in any way a bonus, you still have to hand over what you own to the government, despite having already had it taxed at several points and already having paid for social care through tax and NI. Which by any stretch of the imagination is cuntish and will not change, Brexit or not. Because, dum dun duuuuuh, Brexit is not actually that important to Mr Average, he will still spend his life paying taxes and then have what's left taken away from him when he dies.

 

[caLLous]

Of course I picked it out because it was the exact example you used to show that things will stay the same!

dum dun duuuuuh, Brexit is not actually that important to Mr Average, he will still spend his life paying taxes and then have what's left taken away from him when he dies.

Of course Mr Average will still pay taxes but who's to say how those taxes might increase. Or how the cost of Mr Average's weekly shop might go up because of the Pound going to shit causing import costs to rise. Or how Mr Average might find himself out of a job because unemployment might suddenly go through the roof if big foreign-owned companies with factories in the UK and/or international banks decide to up sticks. All because of the shoddy Brexit that this government might be forced to walk away with.

All of the above are hypotheticals but you've no authority to say that "Brexit is not actually that important to Mr Average" when none of us have any idea of what lies ahead. Let's see how things* are in 2020.

* the general, all-encompassing definition.

(we appear to now be talking about Brexit in the General Election thread)

 

[Job]

The Liberal democrats who have church going leader who believes homosexual sex is a sin and that abortion is wrong...and just recently changed his mind on both accounts after getting asked about it...like no one had though about him getting asked about his conservative views.

 

[Raven]

Well, yes but I am not voting for Farren.

I have a choice here,

Tory, Andrea Leadsom (No, fuck no) lead by an essentially evil bitch that needs to go.

Labour, lol

Lib Dem, lead by a mentally ill guy (religion is a mental illness) the local candidate however actually seems OK, does a lot for the national trust and is involved in various other things that I think are important, locally.

UKIP, lol

And a handful of indis that don't appear to be bothering to campaign, let alone say what they think.

Option 2 still remains to spoil my ballot and while I think it is important for people to do that so that they at least engage with the election, I have to admit that while not looking too deeply into the maths, the Lib Dem manifesto ticked a few boxes.