Football Gary Speed

[Wazzerphuk]

Whether a "conscious decision" or depression, the survival instinct is so strong that suicide is typically indicitive of some abnormal brain activity.

RIP Gary.

 

[russell]

Ah -that makes sense, thanks DaGaff
Also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide goes into 'types' of suicide for those of you who would like more insight.

 

[caLLous]

Surely (especially with something like hanging) once you've set the process in motion , it's too late for any survival instinct to kick in.

My English teacher told us that it was impossible to stab yourself. I'm paraphrasing, because it was 20 odd years ago and I don't remember his exact words. I also don't know if he was just trying to be 'ard, but I guess that's a more clear-cut survival instinct demonstration.

 

[russell]

At the end of the day unbearable pain is unbearable pain -be it physical or mental. I hope none of us ever have to experience it.

 

[throdgrain]

Ooh the BBC, must be true then

 

[russell]

Ooh the BBC, must be true then

Sorry I am too knackered to find more reputable sources -WIKIPEDIA too!!

 

[Rubric]

Interesting, I wonder what it is about being cathokic that helps you not give in to those thoughts? Suggest there is a point where people make a conscious decision to take an easier route or to ask for help.

I can't believe what Catholics preach would weigh more heavily than say flesh and blood left behind.

 

[Scouse]

My English teacher told us that it was impossible to stab yourself. I'm paraphrasing, because it was 20 odd years ago and I don't remember his exact words. I also don't know if he was just trying to be 'ard, but I guess that's a more clear-cut survival instinct demonstration.

Your English teacher was talking out of his arse.

Interesting, I wonder what it is about being cathokic that helps you not give in to those thoughts? Suggest there is a point where people make a conscious decision to take an easier route or to ask for help.

I can't believe what Catholics preach would weigh more heavily than say flesh and blood left behind.

Religious people tend to be happier. It's because they suffer from another form of mental illness called being a believer - which means that when bad shit happens they attribute a reason to it and can feel all happy about it.

It's why they're not so good at avoiding war and persecution and stuff - they can merrily murder millions

 

[caLLous]

Sorry I am too knackered to find more reputable sources -WIKIPEDIA too!!

The only source I could find said it was a "leading cause of death", not the most common cause. It's a bit nitpicky, though.

 

[caLLous]

Your English teacher was talking out of his arse.

I know, I know, he's an English teacher, so he is only allowed to know words and stuff. He had asides and anecdotes, you know the type. Not really able to substantiate it to justify including it this thread though so potentially disregard the aforementioned anecdote.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

You're forgetting you can no longer use a passing anecdote without a full enquiry these days.

 

[Raven]

Don't forget multi quoting every word.

 

[itcheh]

Sadly I've had two examples of this in my life.

One of my friends killed himself - nobody saw it coming - he seemed as 'normal as ever'. By all accounts he was completely meticulous about what he was doing - he took home some chemicals from the lab (he was studying for a PHD in Chemistry). The reason? I guess we'll never know, but in his letter said he said he felt under pressure to excel in his studies.

The sister of a good friend of mine tried to take her life at Uni ... she failed (thank goodness). Later, she explained that she was totally calm about the idea of dying ... almost numb ... she just felt like it was too much effort to 'live' and thought this would be the simplest solution. She believed in a completely unemotional way that it was the right thing to do.

It's easy to justify or explain these feelings as 'selfish' ... but that implies that they are taking some easy way out of whatever they perceive is their problems ... but it's nothing like that. In both examples you seem to have this completely disjointed view of reality

Neither of these guys were upset, or showed any other symptoms of depression or negative emotion. Both of these guys had close friends, girlfriends, family ... neither of them suffered from any terrible event ... nothing was actually 'wrong'.

There's no point trying to understand why Gary Speed killed himself ... RIP to one of my favourite Everton players.

 

[Gray]

Issues that affect the mind are always big issues it seems, remember going to one therapist untrained in the area who pretty much called me a liar outright, before finally being assigned someone to help me with cognitive therapy. Few months later and i felt much better about it all.

I remember watching a video regarding the issue, about social anxiety and how it was the biggest issue in America and Japan just behind alcohol and drug abuse i think it was, was a very good interview which helped me at least gain some understanding on it.

Health Matters: Social Anxiety Disorder

But i don't think the social side of it was anything to do with the Gary Speed death, i just have to wonder if he perhaps left a suicide note or something to state the reasons why he did it.

 

[DaGaffer]

My English teacher told us that it was impossible to stab yourself.

Tell that to a Samurai.

 

[Billargh]

Maybe he really, really hated the class and wanted a tonne of them to try it out?

 

[Jupitus]

What got you through Jup?

Hard to say really, but probably medication (which I still take). I'm also very used to people who simply 'don't get it' with the whole mental illness thing. I've known my best mate almost all of my life, but there is one subject we will never discuss nowadays owing to it always ending up a total row or stalemate . Yes Gaff - pull yerself together!

I think this thread has gone a bit tangental because some of us are basing our posts on the supposition that it was mental illness which caused Gary Speed to commit suicide, and as previously stated some of us can completely relate to that. If he was in some other kind of trouble then it becomes somewhat moot, but its an interesting discussion nonetheless.

 

[Scouse]

I know, I know, he's an English teacher, so he is only allowed to know words and stuff. He had asides and anecdotes, you know the type. Not really able to substantiate it to justify including it this thread though so potentially disregard the aforementioned anecdote.

You're forgetting you can no longer use a passing anecdote without a full enquiry these days.

I actually like passing anecdote when it's not obviously shite. Can't stab yourselves? How about the much-celebrated and very famous ritual act of suicide by stabbing oneself, hara-kiri?



Edit:

Tell that to a Samurai.

DAMN YOU GAFF!

 

[caLLous]

I wonder what other lies he told. Was Shakespeare even real?!

 

[Scouse]

I wonder what other lies he told. Was Shakespeare even real?!

Got told on a school trip once that you can see Anglesey over the sea from the Wirral on a clear day. Which is shite. I wouldn't mention such a dull fact apart from when I insisted that you couldn't the teacher told me not to talk back and gave me a detention.

I was told to write 100 lines of "do not talk back to your teachers" but I wrote "you can't see anglesey from there" 100 times instead. They called my mum, who told me off. I had to do another detention and write the lines out again.

Fucking teachers. They're full of shit

 

[russell]

Absolutely

 

[sayward]

I hope it wasn't a Michael Hutchence 'thing'.

 

[rynnor]

I wonder when the truth will come out - for my two penneth I dont think it was a depression suicide per se - I wondered if it was some sort of shocking news/fear of discovery sort of thing.

 

[rynnor]

Wonder why its only 6th in America? Curious....
Maybe the bible belt?

No - its because they all have guns so being shot is more likely than suicide.

 

[Moriath]

Hard to say really, but probably medication (which I still take). I'm also very used to people who simply 'don't get it' with the whole mental illness thing. I've known my best mate almost all of my life, but there is one subject we will never discuss nowadays owing to it always ending up a total row or stalemate . Yes Gaff - pull yerself together!

I think this thread has gone a bit tangental because some of us are basing our posts on the supposition that it was mental illness which caused Gary Speed to commit suicide, and as previously stated some of us can completely relate to that. If he was in some other kind of trouble then it becomes somewhat moot, but its an interesting discussion nonetheless.

Yup was a supposition if that's how you spell it.

But it is the cause of a lot of suicides.. Depending if you clump it with mental illness I. General... And yes it's impossible to understand unless you have been there IMO.

3 reasons for suicide ... IMO
. Mental illness , terminal illness , auto asphyxia gone wrong. Most can be fitted into those categories, even the pressure or embarrassment forcing it would io be under mental illness

 

[Cemeterygates]

Gotta love how ignorant some are...

 

[Scouse]

And yes it's impossible to understand unless you have been there IMO.

Agreed (more or less).

(Athough slightly off-topic) There's lots of examples of this type of human thinking and of human brains being unable to comprehend what they haven't experienced. In many ways ignorance is almost hard-wired.

Religious people, for example, are barely able to understand how unreasonable they are because their minds are set up to beleive things without reason. Their indoctrination from a young age reinforces this mindset. Reasoned argument cannot persuade them - because their minds aren't set up to use reason, or stand by evidence as the ultimate arbiter of truth.

To be fair, a mind benefits from being trained to use reason - which is why science needs to be taught at a young age.


To bring it back round to suicide, depression and mental illness, the only reasonable way forward when you haven't had direct experience of those thought patterns is to accept the evidence that these conditions and mindsets exist (and there is a lot of evidence) and work from that standpoint.

Understanding isn't necessary for us to move forward in a sympathetic manner - acceptance is, however.

 

[russell]

Agreed (more or less).
Understanding isn't necessary for us to move forward in a sympathetic manner - acceptance is, however.

Absolutely.
It sometimes scares me more, the lack of empathy and acceptance people have for other people, than the ignorance. I find it frightening how damaging it can be.

 

[throdgrain]

No - its because they all have guns so being shot is more likely than suicide.

A joke I assume?

 

[DaGaffer]

Got told on a school trip once that you can see Anglesey over the sea from the Wirral on a clear day. Which is shite. I wouldn't mention such a dull fact apart from when I insisted that you couldn't the teacher told me not to talk back and gave me a detention.

I was told to write 100 lines of "do not talk back to your teachers" but I wrote "you can't see anglesey from there" 100 times instead. They called my mum, who told me off. I had to do another detention and write the lines out again.

Fucking teachers. They're full of shit

For the record, from the highest point in the Wirral (350ft/100m), you can see just under 40KM on a clear day (brought to you by geometry nerd), so no, you can never see Anglesey (speaking from experience, you can see Llandudno from Anglesey). Had to get that off my chest; unresolved maths does that to me.