[RANT] Fix the fucking WE's!

[Pandemic]

Order has a lot of BW's on KEP. Destruction need a class that can take down BW's to balance this. currently the WE is the best class to do this and yes a rank 40 rr 42+ WE with good equipment can pop next to a PUG in Serpents passage, kill 2-3 BW's in seconds and sometimes escape. This I think is needed until the next patch changes and the Black Guard arrives into tier 4.

With the next patch SH's will be BW killers, they are good already at this but next patch will murder them. Sorcs will now be on an even footing with BW's and so can fully counter them while Marauders, Chosen, BO's will also be better as the BW's damage and survivability goes down. The BW will do siginificantly less damage and healing will be boosted.

Add to this the Black Guard class and thats the BW class completely countered. I suspect after all this the WE will be toned down abit as its uber anti BW damage will no longer be required to balance things, but its unlikely to happen for at least 2 or 3 months from now.

 

[Tiani]

Order has a lot of BW's on KEP. Destruction need a class that can take down BW's to balance this. currently the WE is the best class to do this and yes a rank 40 rr 42+ WE with good equipment can pop next to a PUG in Serpents passage, kill 2-3 BW's in seconds and sometimes escape. This I think is needed until the next patch changes and the Black Guard arrives into tier 4.

With the next patch SH's will be BW killers, they are good already at this but next patch will murder them. Sorcs will now be on an even footing with BW's and so can fully counter them while Marauders, Chosen, BO's will also be better as the BW's damage and survivability goes down. The BW will do siginificantly less damage and healing will be boosted.

Add to this the Black Guard class and thats the BW class completely countered. I suspect after all this the WE will be toned down abit as its uber anti BW damage will no longer be required to balance things, but its unlikely to happen for at least 2 or 3 months from now.

So basically bW lose everything and gain nothing while destruction gains yet another counter to us and we have to wait a few months for these things to 'maybe' be balanced out by Mythic. Lol

The thing is there is gonna be no point playing a BW the way things are looking now, we will have to see. There is no way I will quit my char but I will be really frustrated if I become a mediocre SW with Dots and backlash.

I just duno how they justify the crit nerf, all our damage comes from crits, non crit damage is kinda pathetic, my fireball *hits* for about 400damage at lvl 37 with no points in the tree (on a 3 sec cast spell, presume this is about the same for an un-talented doombolt), my dot tick for about 150 - 200 max on non crit, we need that crit to deliver our damage, taking 15% away is gonna fuck us up imo. Will have to see how it pans out, although we will theoretically take less backlash proc's the damage from backlash remains the same, and I gues so does the 100% crit damage bonus, I duno without playing it it just doesnt sound good at all.

 

[Faeldawn]

WE is a real spam-the-slash class and just recently i have seen up to 6+ in many scenarios simply because they are rather powerful and people are realising this more and more.

I personally have no problem with their burst damage output, it's their survivability that is way off the mark imo. How a WE can outlast even a heavy tank is frankly absurd. They should really be amongst the squishiest classes in the game, currently they aren't.

 

[Vintersorg]

So basically bW lose everything and gain nothing while destruction gains yet another counter to us and we have to wait a few months for these things to 'maybe' be balanced out by Mythic. Lol

Let's face it, BW's are overpowered as it stands.
The changes as I see them should balance everything out and BW will no longer be an "Iwin" class (similar to DaoC's original release of the warlock), but will actually require some coordination and thinking.

So please, stop complaining before you see what it actually becomes.
Hell, I play mainly order, and I think BW's are overpowered as it stands.

 

[Calaen]

WE is a real spam-the-slash class and just recently i have seen up to 6+ in many scenarios simply because they are rather powerful and people are realising this more and more.

I personally have no problem with their burst damage output, it's their survivability that is way off the mark imo. How a WE can outlast even a heavy tank is frankly absurd. They should really be amongst the squishiest classes in the game, currently they aren't.

well actually they are, but a tanks job isn't to hit hard but to survive longer. Giving the fact the WE avoids his armour makes it a pointless task for a tank against a carnage specced tank.

I still think a good tank will be able to avoid getting killed off a WE though. but as I covered in another post the majority of players are average and the majority of those average players think they are great

 

[Tiani]

Let's face it, BW's are overpowered as it stands.
The changes as I see them should balance everything out and BW will no longer be an "Iwin" class (similar to DaoC's original release of the warlock), but will actually require some coordination and thinking.

So please, stop complaining before you see what it actually becomes.
Hell, I play mainly order, and I think BW's are overpowered as it stands.

Im not complaining Im discussing and as I mentioned above in the very post you quoted 'We will have to wait and see how it plays'

fact remains though that although BW might be very powerful and perceived to be overpowered doesnt mean they should be nerfed into the ground. Removing their crit chance, and a hefty chunk of it at that is a knee jerk reaction, its not well thought out, there are a number of things they could do to lessen the impact BW have on the game ( couple of sec's cast time on dots, removing their instant cast problem, reduce range slightly of said dots, buff the other tree's so there are not so many dot spec'd BWs, fix resistances etc etc) but they jumped in the deep end and would rather whack a hefty nerf on the class, see how it plays out and fix a mistake they could have avoided later on after the million forum whines, ticket submissions and cancelled subs

 

[arknor]

Let's face it, BW's are overpowered as it stands.
The changes as I see them should balance everything out and BW will no longer be an "Iwin" class (similar to DaoC's original release of the warlock), but will actually require some coordination and thinking.

So please, stop complaining before you see what it actually becomes.
Hell, I play mainly order, and I think BW's are overpowered as it stands.

sorcs are fine thought even considering sorcs can do more single target dps and kill quicker than BW's...... :lol::lol::lol:

i rerolled SH from BW and even at lvl 11 bolstered i have a squigg which has a dot that does 300dmg over 5seconds lol much more powerful than a single lvl40 BW's dot. bw's are going to be beyond crap with the crit nerf because there standard dmg is pathetic when they dont crit.

expect some of the order population to reroll destro because the other ranged order classes are crap and its obvious to all destro are going to be the most loved side for along time.

why do destro get the new tank class and order get a mirror of a crap tank? sorcs arent OP enough to warrant order an anti magic tank?

 

[~Latency~]

wonder how many 'leet' people rolled BW's only to get wtfpwned by WE's lolz

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Its a very freeing experience reading the "Nerf this", "Whine that" threads knowing your class is bottom of the food chain and you really don't have anything to worry about.

 

[Urrunoa]

You play destruction, you do not understand how frustrating it is to play order and be steamrolled 6k hp in 5 seconds by a WE.

You might not understand how frustrating it is to be steamrolled by WH, they rediculous too. Seriously, those classes are made to kill squishies and they good at it, their downside they rather soft themselves. Get your team to kill them, the order we play against are very good at killing anybody coming into their support lines.

Same is with Sorc and BW they same anoying, on our server we see teams of BW assisting so people whine, is no reason too, they pay a price, both nuke themselves heavily as part as their mechanic, I wish people would stop whining so much here.

 

[Turamber]

Seriously, those classes are made to kill squishies and they good at it

Sure, but Witch Elves kill all classes with seeming impunity. On Burlock I am finding the Destruction team in any scenario will have anywhere up to six Witch Elves on their team. Who needs tanks, ranged dps or even healers when you can take out just about any class in the game in seconds?

Nerf bat incoming...

 

[Gear]

Reduce parry on WEs and make their stealth openings positionals (like PA, BS). Problem solved.

Comes without saying that kisses should also get fixed.

 

[Vintersorg]

sorcs are fine thought even considering sorcs can do more single target dps and kill quicker than BW's...... :lol::lol::lol:

i rerolled SH from BW and even at lvl 11 bolstered i have a squigg which has a dot that does 300dmg over 5seconds lol much more powerful than a single lvl40 BW's dot. bw's are going to be beyond crap with the crit nerf because there standard dmg is pathetic when they dont crit.

expect some of the order population to reroll destro because the other ranged order classes are crap and its obvious to all destro are going to be the most loved side for along time.

why do destro get the new tank class and order get a mirror of a crap tank? sorcs arent OP enough to warrant order an anti magic tank?

1. Did I mention Sorcs? Not at all, I only mentioned that BW's are OP as it stands, because they were the subject of the post I answered. But the same does apply to Sorcs who are OP as well, especially since they're a mirror class.
2. Squig herder's do more damage than a BW...I call bullshit on this one. Either you're lying or you're confusing level 4 with level 40. For reference the BW's basic "Ignite" spell at level 40 ticks for 549 damage in 9 seconds (if specced in the DOT line of course.). The SH's dot attack does 250 damage over 15 seconds...slightly less than the BW, isn't it?
3. Stop complaining about order rerolling to destro because there are patches coming to fix balance issues (and as longs as there are whiners, there will be balance issues anyway.
4. The new tank classes are mirrors of existing tanks. Since Swordmaster and BO are each other's mirrors, it makes sense that the BG is the mirror of the IB and that the KOTBS is the mirror of the Chosen (who is only a crap tank for those who don't have a clue how to play the class.

I can recap what kind of person you are: you played a BW, just learned that they're going to get a well-deserved balancing and started whining and are now looking for the next OP Iwin class, which you suppose is going to be SH as they're going to receive a boost soon.

 

[Tiani]

1. Did I mention Sorcs? Not at all, I only mentioned that BW's are OP as it stands, because they were the subject of the post I answered. But the same does apply to Sorcs who are OP as well, especially since they're a mirror class.
2. Squig herder's do more damage than a BW...I call bullshit on this one. Either you're lying or you're confusing level 4 with level 40. For reference the BW's basic "Ignite" spell at level 40 ticks for 549 damage in 9 seconds (if specced in the DOT line of course.). The SH's dot attack does 250 damage over 15 seconds...slightly less than the BW, isn't it?
3. Stop complaining about order rerolling to destro because there are patches coming to fix balance issues (and as longs as there are whiners, there will be balance issues anyway.
4. The new tank classes are mirrors of existing tanks. Since Swordmaster and BO are each other's mirrors, it makes sense that the BG is the mirror of the IB and that the KOTBS is the mirror of the Chosen (who is only a crap tank for those who don't have a clue how to play the class.

I can recap what kind of person you are: you played a BW, just learned that they're going to get a well-deserved balancing and started whining and are now looking for the next OP Iwin class, which you suppose is going to be SH as they're going to receive a boost soon.

Well deservied balancing shouldnt equate to nerfing them into the ground, we will see when it goes live, but I think we will see BW and Sorc's being really pissed when they realise everyone else is doing comparable damage to them with no self harming mechanic.

 

[Vintersorg]

Well deservied balancing shouldnt equate to nerfing them into the ground, we will see when it goes live, but I think we will see BW and Sorc's being really pissed when they realise everyone else is doing comparable damage to them with no self harming mechanic.

Let's face it...the nerf is still needed. But it's true, let's hope they don't hit them too hard...
Also, wasn't this a thread about Bitch Elves?

 

[Tiani]

Let's face it...the nerf is still needed. But it's true, let's hope they don't hit them too hard...
Also, wasn't this a thread about Bitch Elves?

Yes got slightly derailed, and I agree, well kind of, not a nerf more erm toning down ? and a few abilities fixed, I dont believe a hefty crit nerf was the way to achieve this but like I said will see how it plays.

As for WE, nerf!

 

[Jupitus]

Also, wasn't this a thread about Bitch Elves?

Yeah! Get yer own OP whine thread!!!one

Oh, and I'm chuckling at the 'I rolled a squigherder chappy'... Vintersong had that one well pegged

 

[civy]

well actually they are, but a tanks job isn't to hit hard but to survive longer. Giving the fact the WE avoids his armour makes it a pointless task for a tank against a carnage specced tank.

I still think a good tank will be able to avoid getting killed off a WE though. but as I covered in another post the majority of players are average and the majority of those average players think they are great

And the majority of WE's think they are skilled players. The class is OP. Everyone can look good when they have a killing machine.

Keep stealth and lose the DPS or lose stealth and keep the dps.

 

[Gear]

Keep stealth and lose the DPS or lose stealth and keep the dps.

Or introduce positionals and reduce stealth movement. Let's see em try to line up a PA

 

[Millz]

This class is most ridicoulus class in a game, and i can't believe there are not really any noteworthy patches coming which nerf them, they really need it.

Their damage output is just sick, no other class ingame can acheive this.

Exin is the name your looking for in the pics

Cool, thx for the info! Gonna go roll a WE right now!

 

[Mr_Grumpy]

And for everyone getting hit while out range (never heard of this tbh) there is someone else not being hit by me when they are perfectly in range on my screen. I don't want anyone nerfed.

The difference between me and you though is that as a WE jumping the enemy back line, it generally means I die because I am out out of healers range. I accept this is the danger of playing my class. You however have healers left right and centre keeping you up so your backlash damage is kind of irrelevant. And you get all that healing and damage in the safety of your group.

LoL yeah healers heal me , in scenarios? I think not lol. They are too busy trying to dps unless they are poor RPs and then they have to heal really.

Its all moot point anyway cause others Are getting buffed to the WE's levels hence atm they are officially over powered

 

[Faeldawn]

Well deservied balancing shouldnt equate to nerfing them into the ground, we will see when it goes live, but I think we will see BW and Sorc's being really pissed when they realise everyone else is doing comparable damage to them with no self harming mechanic.

Bingo.

 

[Urgat]

This is not a whine, i am one of the few peeps that can accept every class in the game as it is. For me its about WB vs WB RvR... where one bright wizards damage, or one Witch elves damage arent really significant. And if i get melted by a BW solo... meh, thats the way it is... res and move on

But this is interesting...

<Snip>

I do around 150k (and thats probably a lot of AOE buffing damage) but when you factor in backlash damage I probably do 10 - 20k more dmg than say a SW ? but for the risk envolved I think thats about right imo.

<snip>

Now... can you maybe explain to me where "the risk" is when your perma hot'ed by your groups healer?

The fact is... "Backlash" is irrelevent when you are teamed with even an only semi competent healer... I think Mythic realised that BW and Sorcs are NOT really "paying a price" for that uber crit damage when it actually comes down to it. So they reigned it in a bit..

Maybe?

 

[Urgat]

hmm

Thats the thing though, its not that you can win its more like you WILL win 100% and imo that is just plain wrong, having an advantage over another specific class is all well and good but it should not be 100% foolproof.

Bah looks like i am picking you out Tiani.. i arnt honestly, i just noticed something else i'd like to comment on in general here...

I think many people are making the mistake of trying to envisage 1v1 class balance here.

It simply IS NOT meant to work that way in WAR. Its an RvR game, its about large forces engaging each other. And thats the way it is balanced.

WE / WH finds anything solo... pretty much guarenteed the WH/WE wins. its just the way it is.

However, in the game's intended focus ("Large scale epic rvr" - MJ's own words) that situation will be rare... WH / WE should be guarding there own casters ( i know i do when its known that enemy WH's are prowling) you should have tank and healer support near by. 9 times out of 10... if a WH/WE pops on a squishy in a zerg, sure the squishy probably goes down, but the WE/WH also goes down straight after... 1 for 1, and both sides square.

Its simply NOT about 1v1 balance... you have to take the big picture, and the intent of the game and its designers into consideration.

anyways, have fun.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

And the majority of WE's think they are skilled players. The class is OP. Everyone can look good when they have a killing machine.

Keep stealth and lose the DPS or lose stealth and keep the dps.

Yep - a WE 1-2 levels lower can chew through my S&S spec Swordmaster - if i don't have a Potion handy or get a few lucky hits in i get raped. Iron Breakers seem to fare a bit better but still struggle, and Witch Hunters / Warrior priests overall seem to get shafted too.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

The thing is there is gonna be no point playing a BW the way things are looking now, we will have to see. There is no way I will quit my char but I will be really frustrated if I become a mediocre SW with Dots and backlash.

Agreed, hence my i've picked up my AM again - i can see BW's and Sorcs being largely pointless after this patch goes live. They'll basically be a self-harming SW/SH without the opportunity to spec for nice chain-CC or the improved survivability.

 

[Turamber]

Warrior priests overall seem to get shafted too.

Yep, even a lower level Witch Elf will make mincemeat of your WP. Ignore my armour and block my healing ... it is not a good combination for survivability. Can't even run away with that debuff on me.

Too many goodies in their bag, hopefully the KOTBS will be a counterclass to them -- would be fun to have some payback.

 

[Tallen]

Yep, even a lower level Witch Elf will make mincemeat of your WP. Ignore my armour and block my healing ... it is not a good combination for survivability. Can't even run away with that debuff on me.

Too many goodies in their bag, hopefully the KOTBS will be a counterclass to them -- would be fun to have some payback.

I can't speak for level 25+, but below 25 I have never ever lost 1v1 on my WP to a WE, they simply cannot sustain the damage output and never get me below 50%.

Any other class admittedly i struggle against them, but NOT on a WP.

 

[Legean]

Why do people continue to argue the point that the game isn't balanced for 1v1 when trying to justify the WEs DPS? Theres going to be 1v1 fights in the game wether people want it or not, and making a class that can take out almost any other class with little trouble is stupid.

Number of times I've been trying to make my way to a WB and can't make it because theres a WE blocking every route. The 1v1 capabilities are affecting the mass RvR.

Also people argue that WEs die so fast when they go and pick out a target. Well obviously if you jump in and attack someone with another 5 people around them you are going to die, every other class in the game would die too but theyre not getting insane DPS to ensure they get the kill. WEs are just as able to stay near the tank train, stay in heal range or pick off stragglers as any other class. Those who choose not to should be punished by dying without a kill again just like every other class in the game.

 

[Boggy]

I can see both sides of that argument. 1v1 obviously does happen, but I dunno whether it has a significant impact on the wider RvR.

The problem for me is 2v1. It's relatively easy to find a buddy and go into scens together. When WEs do this, they CAN pop on a target with 5 people around it and still have a chance (if the 5 are not coordinating their assists), because together they can take people down so fast that each enemy gets very little damage in before they die.

Possibly this is true of some other pairings, but it's when it is coupled with stealth it makes most problems. Other pairings wouldn't be able to pick the opportunities anywhere near as freely. WHs might also be able to have this same impact duo, I'm not sure. Feels like WHs don't mo people down quite as easily even in pairs.