[RANT] Fix the fucking WE's!

[hibblet]

do you mean the log with enfeebling strikes in it?

-> Enfeebling Strike - Abilities - Warhammer Online

witch hunters got a similar spell too

And puncture

-> Puncture - Abilities - Warhammer Online

so that equals six hits

from what i see though is like puncture hitting for way more than it should even with crit it should be lower ?

at lvl 40 says like 306 with 5 blood lust so crit is like 600 more

and enfeebling strike should tick at 56, avg i saw there was 178 + more

does buffs etc up dmg,

thats like 200 % rise in what they should hit for

 

[Urgat]

Think it boils more down to the point that, no matter if you got a DoT on you, it seems that after some time, they can restealth anyway.

Not in my experience...

It used to be bugged, in that you couldnt interupt the stealth "cast time"
But you certainly can now... If i dont get out of LOS, i dont get re stealthed now days... If i do manae to get out of LOS, and stealth, if i am dotted, the next tick pops me.

Ill try do some more testing on this.

 

[Kami]

WH/WE should not be able to survive 1v1 against a tank, or at least it should be much closer than it is. Skill and luck should count, but at the moment it's needing a bit of rebalancing towards the tank.

 

[Urgat]

from what i see though is like puncture hitting for way more than it should even with crit it should be lower ?

at lvl 40 says like 306 with 5 blood lust so crit is like 600 more

and enfeebling strike should tick at 56, avg i saw there was 178 + more

does buffs etc up dmg,

thats like 200 % rise in what they should hit for

All melee abilities and procs from them are affected by the melee stat as far as i can see. (and have noticed)

 

[Urgat]

WH/WE should not be able to survive 1v1 against a tank, or at least it should be much closer than it is. Skill and luck should count, but at the moment it's needing a bit of rebalancing towards the tank.

I kind of agree. and from my Blorc's point of view... its working like that allready.

Never really took time to check the level of the IB's i killed on my WE... though i do remember they were using 2handers, and spent a fair amount of time disarmed. (as well as running after me whilst enfeebled... so not great players i guess)

I DID however have my ass handed to me by a shield specced sword master the other night. Hardly touched him tbh)

 

[Caylan Raal]

Dunno if thats down to bad WH's, or maybe the classes arent exact mirrors... can WH's spec to pretty much ignore armour like i have on my WE?

They can:
seal of destruction ability in path of inquisition ignores armour for 7 seconds.

Torment is a positional attack in path of judgment - ignores armour when behind target - coupled with the feint ability (10 sec timer where positional attacks dont require the position)

 

[Urgat]

They can:
seal of destruction ability in path of inquisition ignores armour for 7 seconds.

Torment is a positional attack in path of judgment - ignores armour when behind target - coupled with the feint ability (10 sec timer where positional attacks dont require the position)

Exactly the same then...

Do they also have the tactic that drops the reuse timer on the buff to 20 secs? (Meaning that for 10 secs out of every 20, i can ignore all armour) and thats without touching the "melee" carnage line at all

 

[Caylan Raal]

WH/WE should not be able to survive 1v1 against a tank, or at least it should be much closer than it is. Skill and luck should count, but at the moment it's needing a bit of rebalancing towards the tank.

Thing is... against a tank even bypassing their armour its very close - i win vs most marauders but black orcs eat me for breakfast

WE's just seem to win too easily against tanks. I cant point out why to be exact as WH's can bypass armour aswell - i put it down to the WE's abilities reducing stats such as wounds aswell. WH doesn thave anything that reduces stats unless they by the level 13 execution in inquisition path.

 

[Cylian]

Dunno if thats down to bad WH's, or maybe the classes arent exact mirrors... can WH's spec to pretty much ignore armour like i have on my WE?

isn't there something like WEs can get to ignore 75-100% of the targets armour somehow?

Getting cut back to 50% in 1.06 if I read those patch notes correctly.

 

[Urgat]

Thing is... against a tank even bypassing their armour its very close - i win vs most marauders but black orcs eat me for breakfast

WE's just seem to win too easily against tanks. I cant point out why to be exact as WH's can bypass armour aswell - i put it down to the WE's abilities reducing stats such as wounds aswell. WH doesn thave anything that reduces stats unless they by the level 13 execution in inquisition path.

vs tanks, the kiss of agony helps a lot. (initative steal on proc)

 

[Caylan Raal]

Exactly the same then...

Do they also have the tactic that drops the reuse timer on the buff to 20 secs? (Meaning that for 10 secs out of every 20, i can ignore all armour) and thats without touching the "melee" carnage line at all

nope - at least im pretty sure not - just had a breif look through and cant see anything. But if WE's have it WH's "might"

 

[Urgat]

isn't there something like WEs can get to ignore 75-100% of the targets armour somehow?

Getting cut back to 50% in 1.06 if I read those patch notes correctly.

Thats high up in the carnage line. And, in my opinion is a waste of points.

I currently ignore 100% of my targets armour, for 10 seconds, out of every 20 (so 50% of the time) if they are running from me, that increses to 100% of the time.

 

[Zoia]

One thing the WHs can do, is to spec for Seeker's Blade
Seeker's Blade - Abilities - Warhammer Online
and the tactic Seeker's Triumph
Seeker's Triumph - Abilities - Warhammer Online

Seeker's Blade, which can't be defended against, will then be usable every 5 sec and ignore 50% of the target's armour. Uses a lot of end though, but does the same damage as Razor Strike.
Iirc, Blessed Bullets Of Cleansing will soon drain 20 AP? That might help some with the heavy AP cost. Especially if the WH is absolution spamming.

 

[Aiteal]

Personally, I think the WE is a bit outta whack as regards non-squishy targets

Considering the design intent expressed by mythic devs
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?feature=2018&game=239&from=/features.cfm/view/latest&bhcp=1

Melee DPS (Choppa, Marauder, Witch Elf, Witch Hunter, White Lion, Hammerer)

• Strong Vs Ranged DPS / Ranged Healers
• Even Vs Melee DPS
• Weak Vs Tanks / Melee healers

Having said that
If I pull repel blasphemy then confess as a WH on a WE who doesn't know to use sever blessing
they get that humiliating 0 vs 100% health thing laid on them

 

[Mr_Grumpy]

Going 1v1 WH v WE and you will see huge numbers from the WE while the WH can only do smaller numbers followed by the class mechanic at full power giving them bigger hits.Even then its not THAT great.Torment is pretty lame tbh dmg wise even when it ignores armour.

It doesnt matter if they are supposed to be mirrors, they were never intended to both work the same. WE just does a lot more front loaded damage than a WH , while the WH does more even damage with finishing moves as such. WH also dont attack as fast or at anywhere near the rate WE's do.

BTW the BW arguement doesnt work here since the sorc and the bw both can die just from using their skills/spells.Where as the WE has no threat of that at all. Imagine they gave you that ability, harder you hit the more chance of killing yourself. Great fun at times but not that op.
BW's have threat of death and damaging themselves so much that one hit from a squih herder can kill them balanced with their dmg. Same with sorc. Theyre needing tweakin but if youre dying too much to them then blame your bikini clad slackers

 

[Dre@d]

If a WH wants to kill a we needs to spec for it and only for it ( and mayb marauders), and it can be countered if the we's is clever enuff, if the we wants to kill a wh it just do it, pretty easy, thing is, kisses proccing on every attack, that's sick, damn sick, the burst dmg is insane, the best in the game, yes much better than the bw, single dps target of the we is insane, the wh just cant do that, not even close, if the we's is a bit lucky she can get 6 hits with 1 swing, not happens often but can, the tactics are better than the wh ones ( hello 50% crit dmg increased? ), the we's needs to be looked at, and same goes for the BW to put him in line with sorc, but i guess the fixing will take some more time.

 

[[HB]Jpeg]

This class is most ridicoulus class in a game, and i can't believe there are not really any noteworthy patches coming which nerf them, they really need it.

Their damage output is just sick, no other class ingame can acheive this.

Exin is the name your looking for in the pics

Personally i gree WE need some kinda dmge nerf.. but it aint there dmge imo.. its there DPS.. they do silly dmge to quick imo.

Depends on his gear he maybe all St... when im on my IB in full strength gear i can hit ppl for 1k+ often (with crit) and with lotsa ST i seem to Crit VERY often if i swung 6 times id estimate at least 3 of them are crits (normal crit is 600 have een 700-800 crits also) + normal dmge.I die quiet fast tho due to lack of toughness and wounds with ST setup tho which is the price i have to pay. i only use ST items for Scenarios or Mass Rvr

but for the WE its there dmge bursts that need a nerf.. not there actual dmge imo.

 

[Legean]

Problem I notice with them both playing one and against one are the kisses seem to proc a lot and from any attack, was hit with it with a thrown weapon. They also add quite a lot of damage as well as having their debuff effect (steal initi, reduce healing ect). The second thing is as they have 2 weapons they auto attack twice. I'm unsure wether the WHs auto attack hits harder but im sure they only auto attack with one weapon.

With WH, and this may just be me, but I feel their executions take a long time to fire off. You see the gun aimed quite slowely compared to the pace of RvR and seems you're wasting a lot of time doing it. Also the rapid fire execution requires you to stand still and focus fire at the enemy which is time you could use another execution and be hitting the target meaning its less usefull and I generally dont use it!

Finally WEs attacks are generally 'attacks the target X amount of times' a lot of the frenzys being 2. But this just means they have twice the chance to critical and from some screenies of puncture I've seen im not sure they do lower damage just because the attack delve is lower.

 

[Fefner]

I have a witch elf...

What happened is this...



1 - You were popped on by a stealthed Witch elf.

2- He used Enfeebling strike. (For the next 15 seconds, everytime you move you take lots of damage)

3- He used Kiss of death. (All of the WE attacks have a 25% (or 50% with the correct tactic) chance of proccing damage and redusing your healing output by 45%

4- Agonizing wound spam followed by Finisher move and a rank 1 morale ability. (Agonising wound is ignoring armour, so he is either behind you, or has fired the any time positional attack buff.

5- you tried to run away, and killed yourself via the damage from Enfeebling strike every time you move.


Couple of things to note here...

1 - Do NOT try to run from a witch elf when you have a green glowy effect on you. You have more chance if you stop moving, detaunt, and try to heal through the initial spike. If you survive the first few seconds, she will be out of AP, and your home and dry.
2 - Witch hunters can do EXACTLY the same thing.

Witch elves (and witch hunters) are designed to MAUL other classes if they find them solo, or manage to pick them off.

Text book example of how to shred a support class tbh.

Learn from it. And move on.

Yes saying debuffing them is all good but they still kill ya even when debuffed just as quickly as they do when you dont, the damage stays the same. You say heal yourself through the damage? errr damage is greater than heals. Like i said there must be something wrong when this only class can kill a healer with all shields up and the WE debuffed, all other melee classes can not do that type of damage to kill you, only the WE does.
Weather the WH does the same to the destro healer type is something i would like to know. Ive asked a few WH what they think and they all say that WE are better off. They get certain skills before WH do and there damage output is way higher but this is only from what ppl have told me.

 

[Aiteal]

Weather the WH does the same to the destro healer type is something i would like to know. Ive asked a few WH what they think and they all say that WE are better off. They get certain skills before WH do and there damage output is way higher but this is only from what ppl have told me.

WE's got their heal debuff in Tier1
WH's wait until T4
Although iirc, thats been changed on the test server

Damage wise
WE's are much better

WH's do get nice parry abilities and have a bullet type that heals themselves
But the WH's "defensive" advantages really don't help to fulfill the role they were designed for.

A WE's abilities have a better synergy with the kill quick before anyone notices thing thats important in T3 and 4 multiplayer pinball.

 

[Tiani]

However I still fail to understand why enfeebling strike procs three times in the same second. BTW, it also procs a second later and it also procced two seconds earlier. Maybe some kind of weird lag issue?

I was under the impression that FS proc's every half second you are moving, although 3 times in one second is probably lag, but yes imo WE's are overpowered. They are supposed to be cloth killers, fine, but they kill everyone else in practically the same time

They need a nerf, they need to stop kiss's proccing on everything other than finishers as was intended (and imo dont the WH's accusations or whatever they are called work that way ?) and stop those weapon proc's going off so often. I swear dual weild in this game is sick, just look at DoK's and how they perform, especially in the low lvls, I rolled a DoK to lvl 11 and I swear as soon as you get Covenant of Vitality you basically never have to watch your health in PvE again, just constant proc's from the stream of dual weild attacks, proccing constantly.

 

[Perf]

do some ppl keep dying in a rvr zone???

you got to listen to yourselves, pweeez mythic, can you nerf witch elves' those nasty ppl keep killing me..........

if its not bright wizards or ironbreakers or mages etc etc fkin etc its something else that needs nerfing your all fkin pussies, just play the damn game an stop crying evertime you fkin die.

it didnt take me long to realise if i was jumped by a witch elf just to stop still, pop a heal potion an wait for the poisen thingy to wear off. most classes can use some form of knockback/knockdown/disrupt or whatever then start to put some damage down yourself. go get better armour with whatever is needed to soak up the damage. Dont run around on your own if your a squishy, your inviting any we in the area to head straight for you.

learn how to play your own class before crying out for nerfs, the chance are you also play an overpowered class in some other persons eyes.
the constant whinging from the same ppl over and over and over again about certain aspects of this game, like the OP. dont like it?? go fck off!!

 

[Gahn]

do some ppl keep dying in a rvr zone???

you got to listen to yourselves, pweeez mythic, can you nerf witch elves' those nasty ppl keep killing me..........

if its not bright wizards or ironbreakers or mages etc etc fkin etc its something else that needs nerfing your all fkin pussies, just play the damn game an stop crying evertime you fkin die.

it didnt take me long to realise if i was jumped by a witch elf just to stop still, pop a heal potion an wait for the poisen thingy to wear off. most classes can use some form of knockback/knockdown/disrupt or whatever then start to put some damage down yourself. go get better armour with whatever is needed to soak up the damage. Dont run around on your own if your a squishy, your inviting any we in the area to head straight for you.

learn how to play your own class before crying out for nerfs, the chance are you also play an overpowered class in some other persons eyes.
the constant whinging from the same ppl over and over and over again about certain aspects of this game, like the OP. dont like it?? go fck off!!

Can honestly say exactly the same reverted thing: "omigod some1 wanna bring on par my oped class .... ffs damn fuckers Mythic don't listen!!!!".
Pretty much sums up your post.

 

[Hawkwind]

WE's should be strong against soft armour targets. Any idiot that runs with enfeebling strike on him deserves to die very quickly. Those logs show nothing special or out of the ordinary for a T4 WE damage wise.

I would agree that they should not be able to take a tank apart so easily. Maybe an Armour reduction rather than Armour Ignore would be a better idea.

In all honesty, when I beat an IB solo it's usually their fault, loads seem to forget defensive styles and just want to trade blows. I've never beaten a well played, equal level IB, over 100 IB kills in BoB though

 

[Andrilyn]

I don't see the OPness in the initial post screens even if the timestamp is right, my Savagery Marauder could hit for alot more against any single class (800-1k vs IBs etc).
And about not running with the run debuff on you it all depends, it does around 120 damage per tick and if they got 3+ (like normal) allies comming to add on you then you better run and take 120 damage per tick than take unhealable amount of damage with 4+ people on you, ofc if the WH/WE is solo (yeah right) then you shouldn't run but that's a no brainer really.

 

[dee777]

Not in my experience...

It used to be bugged, in that you couldnt interupt the stealth "cast time"
But you certainly can now... If i dont get out of LOS, i dont get re stealthed now days... If i do manae to get out of LOS, and stealth, if i am dotted, the next tick pops me.

Ill try do some more testing on this.

I d be interested in test results, because as of yesterday a WE can stealth with a non-disrupted elemental damage DoT (Rune of Immolation) ticking on him. This happened in tier3, northern elf pairing, if it makes any difference. However I had the same thing happen to me in lower tiers and different places as well, yesterday just was last occurance.

Maybe just the Rune is bugged and wont trigger the stealth "immunity", since I had WEs hiding from me after smacking someone else a couple of times on K8P.

BTW, just to understand properly, it is normal, that enfeebling strikes damage several times _per second_ if the target moves? Does anyone consider that WAI? Please dont get me wrong, WE should just mow thru clothies, but this ability seems outta whack if its working as intended.

 

[Calaen]

The balance in this game is fucked, it has been since launch. For example, WE's should not be able to take down a heavy tank without breaking a sweat - yeah by all means theirs no reason why with good skill they can't kill one, but not by the ridiculous speed at which they currently do. But like other people have said, its not just exclusively limited to certain classes, BW's are fucked and do need nerfing somewhat to bring them in line with sorc's.

I still can't quite understand how a morale ability for we's/wh's that deals 1200 damage is at level one, quite retarded considering how easy it is to build 1 bar of morale in a 1v1 fight, that wants moving up the morale chain for both we's and wh's - either that or make it so armor is taken into effect when that ability is used rather than it just being a set 1200 damage regardless.

Any We using the rank 1 damage is special, most good WE's will have confusing movements up so they can stay alive after their kill.

We should be able to knock out high damage in a short space of time its what we do. We pay for that by constantly being tab targeted by horny tabbers!!!!!

We have zero armour along with many bugged abilities that just don't work, fleet footed, pick lock and a buggy agile escape. Each realm has classes that are better than their rivals just get over it

If I see a Witch Hunter I spam my escape buttons and gtfo of there. Why you might ask, well its simple I am specced to kill casters and healers. Everyone can specialise at something but it has a negative effect when coming across other classes.

 

[Tiani]

Each realm has classes that are better than their rivals just get over it

The problem is this is very one sided and seems to be that the principal is fine and accepted by the masses as long as the differences benefit the Destruction side of the fence and as soon as an inconsistency that benefits order is notices the masses of destruction players jump on the forums to call nerf's, even going as far as comparing each individual spell of their supposid mirror class and pointing out the differences (of course leaving out the beneficial differences for their own class or realm)

i.e. the sorc/BW timeless argument

So many times this discussion comes up on this forum and the WHA forums, and I always ALWAYS argue that the classes shouldnt be indetical on each side and each side should have their advantages and disadvantages but this theory seems to be lost on most destruction players.

They are not happy since T1/2 losing their guaranteed win.

 

[Jupitus]

Agree with alot of what has been said about WE's versus tanks, but against clothies I think they are fine.

You cannot make a true determination about WEs based on one combat log in isolation. Yes, WEs can kill things fast, but that's because we HAVE to do so. The WE in the example most probably died straight after effectively making it a suicide mission, and that happens alot.

Arguing about WEs vs WHs is also daft - standing toe to toe, then yes, the WE will win, but where is the WE ranged ability? You are comparing apples with bananas

 

[Tiani]

Agree with alot of what has been said about WE's versus tanks, but against clothies I think they are fine.

You cannot make a true determination about WEs based on one combat log in isolation. Yes, WEs can kill things fast, but that's because we HAVE to do so. The WE in the example most probably died straight after effectively making it a suicide mission, and that happens alot.

Arguing about WEs vs WHs is also daft - standing toe to toe, then yes, the WE will win, but where is the WE ranged ability? You are comparing apples with bananas

The thing that makes them appear to be OP, especiallt to clothies is the way it happens, countless times I have lost half my health by the time the WE is even on the screen, then its just basically stand there and die, ES really is an IWIN button imo, you cant run, but you cant afford to stand their either, both reactions to the skills will net the WE the result she is looking for a kill, it has 0 chance to fail, it is guaranteed death in almost every possible circumstance, and fine you may die after, but I have watched WE's kill 2 - 3 targets before they finally die a lot of the time, and they usually dispatch people in 6 second or less, and people call BW overpowered coz they can dot people up. lol

I do think WE's are slightly overpowered, I expect to be ass owned by them when they pop up next to me, its just the fact that no matter how good a player I am or what skills I have available they are going to win unless the whole Order healer team focus heals me.