FAO Roaken

[Imgormiel]

isnt it wrong in your head that we have to spam fh all day to get any info about the problem? if you really cared like you said you would proberly have said something about in your fridays news (when you dont forget it) but nothing. like always :

Commented by Eben and his post below is my reply to Eben

(

See my post above yours? Then there's no point in saying anything

 

[Clive Aminal]

Throughout this period and until I left for WAR I tried to be as positive as possible about the future for Dyvet because I knew that a lot of people were working very hard on solving the problem and the commonly held belief that we were sticking our heads in the sand ignoring the issue simply wasn't true. I told you as much as I could about the situation and everything I said was the truth. if I'd told a lie, then I'd have expected to have been instantly sacked.

That is all well and good, but keeping paying customers completely in the dark about what those plans were is simply bad customer service, no matter how you cut it.

From reading this thread one thing seems very clear. GoA is out of ideas for the Dyvet cluster.

As a body who charge for a service, GoA has a duty of care to it's paying subscribers. For casual players, achieving a well templated lvl 50, ml10, cl 10
and rr5+ character in daoc requires a lot of time and commitiment, and that should be respected by GoA, and the right thing should be done by these players.

I know it would loose GoA money, but a deal should be done with mythic for any GoA/Dyvet player to have their account exported to a US cluster (even if this means manually inserting the charter information into a US database). If this had to be done manually, I am sure that many of the current Dyvet players wouldn't mind being without their accounts for a month while this process takes place, if the end result was a server with a much healthier population and the chance of good RvR.

In short GoA needs an exit strategy here, and it astonishes me that in the seven years that GoA has been operating this game, a manager hasn't put an exit strategy forward as a necessity. In any business it is always good practice to develope and maintain an exit policy, with all relevent proceedures, for unforseen circumstances.

 

[GReaper]

To be fair, what exactly are the options? There are plenty of options but most of them are ugly and not viable.

We're all waiting and hoping Mythic will eventually figure out how to turn DAoC into a multilingual game before the servers die.

 

[Tesla Monkor]

There are only a few options:

- Continue to try to build a multilingual cluster. This would be the ideal solution since it fixes the population problem for all servers at once, but has no ETA at all.

- Provide a way to move characters to another cluster, be it German/French/Mythic. This would take a month or two to implement, I`d imagine.

- Do nothing whatsoever and milk the server for as long as it remains viable, then pull the plug when it no longer is. Can be done right now!

Reading Iains reply, I can`t help but think that they were betting on the wrong horse for way, way too long. After a few months it must have been pretty obvious that that particular kite wasn`t going to fly at all. It is shamefull to see that the rest of the months have not been used to build an automated migration tool. One can only conclude that GOA`s interest is solely in keeping the English server up and running, and consider the actual playability of the cluster of secondary importance.

Again we see that GOA is doing `everything it can` and they are very much working on keeping the server viable. I do not know if that is true. It is easy to say that that isn`t true, but who knows. Meanwhile I am down to half my accounts, and those have been taken off auto-renew because RVR is no longer viable on the cluster.

Whatever they end up doing, it has been way too long. In the end I do not think they will do anything at all, and just ride out the wave.

 

[Aerendur]

So in fact, there is a short list of options that GOA could enable, which with not too much work could be done (depending on database layout it can actually be really easy to moderately easy, never hard)..

Make players able to request a transfer to another server. Make them aware that if they request to be moved to another linguistic server they will be playing in that language from then on (this is obviously the most work, since you'd need to translate all stuff that the characters have, items and all).

Or you make them able to request a move to Mythic. Which has the named costs of losing accounts to the business that actually enabled them to run these servers in the first place.

Worst case scenario for these options would be hiring 'cheap' datatypists and making them type in the information from server A to server B.

The fact that they havent yet shown any intention to go here means they are either hoping there might still be another option, or that they fear costs and will not give this customer support due to that.

Either way, its not very comforting for future customers. Even if WAR becomes a way bigger game than DAOC now is, which would mean there is a better chance at keeping a maintainable playerbase. If you are part of a minority with cost risks, GOA apparently just lets you drown.

Edit: Obviously I repped the amazing artist formerly known as Kiwik/Kivvik!

 

[Soulja_IA_]

Dyvets problem was the players on it.

Most of the playerbase of Dyvet were mostly made up of European players especially from Scandinavian countries that sort out Dyvet as basically English was like 2nd language to them.Dyvets problem was one 1 Person said I had enough I'm off to Avalon etc/US friends either stopped playing or moved with them then as time went on people who knew these people then left to join them Guilds upped and moved.

Most of the players who left were able to move as they had a basic understanding of different language as in case of Avalon + Friends other guild members all willing to help each other out thus making the move more enjoyable.

Now People left on Dyvet especially the UK people who are left are unwilling to move as so much work gone into they characters will be unable to adjust to different language server probably like to move US server but feels the hassle of Lvling up again tedious and so plays out they time Dyvet knowing where everything feels normal to them.

Now Dyvets downfall can surely from start be put at Goa's feet from day 1 and that is lack of promotion for the game in UK sadly there has been very very little so this has contributed to lack UK based players on the server.

From my personal experience of DAOC I new about DAOC from day 1 as I was playing another Mythic game and when that closed people I knew came over to play this game which I have done just after launch of it.Mythic have implemented a hell of a lot of changes to game I 1st bought some good and some really bad but you adjust,but now with decline of popultion adjusting is getting harder and harder to do infact it getting to stage where you know you own enemies by 1st name terms and they the same people you keep meeting in RvR.

Response from GOA about can't do this and that in reality could be done especially for char transfer say to US all they got to do is take you template from you Account wire it across water to US they make new account make the 50's that you had give you what items you had RP's/BP's etc and Bingo 1 account.

Goa's lack of promotion for game in UK and some of playerbases attitude towards Dyvet made it like it is shame cracking game I am sure a hell of a lot of people missed out on it in UK but then again as Goa now know word of mouth is just not enough.

Dam long post Sorry for that

Soulja

 

[GReaper]

Dyvets problem was the players on it.

Most of the playerbase of Dyvet were mostly made up of European players especially from Scandinavian countries that sort out Dyvet as basically English was like 2nd language to them.Dyvets problem was one 1 Person said I had enough I'm off to Avalon etc/US friends either stopped playing or moved with them then as time went on people who knew these people then left to join them Guilds upped and moved.

Most of the players who left were able to move as they had a basic understanding of different language as in case of Avalon + Friends other guild members all willing to help each other out thus making the move more enjoyable.

I sort of agree with this. I'd say the problem is the fact that it's too easy for European players to join US servers.

You used to have to buy the boxed version of the game to join either Mythic or GOA servers, however it's understandable that they eventually removed the restriction due to the declining playerbase and people being unable to buy the boxed set in stores. This restriction for US accounts prevented the majority of EU players getting a new account, a few people ordered a CD key online from a few places which sent the key by email.

GOA haven't exactly had the best history on how to run a game, so if players believe the grass is greener on the other side and they can download a 14 day free trial to play the same game run by a different company - nothing is going to stop them.

 

[Raven]

Well to be quite honest they should have told their paying customers that they had given up on plans to transfer or merge servers at the point that they discovered it was "impossible" instead they decided to keep the lie going, taking money from people that probably wouldnt bother with it if they knew the truth.

Goa have mislead people into paying subs for the last six months and it should not be brushed under the carpet, they will soon be running the biggest thing to happen to MMOs since WoW in Europe and have proved that they are willing to do anything to cover up for the fact that they are doing nothing.

Everyone should write or email magazines to show people what these wankers are like.

 

[elbeek]

Well to be quite honest they should have told their paying customers that they had given up on plans to transfer or merge servers at the point that they discovered it was "impossible" instead they decided to keep the lie going, taking money from people that probably wouldnt bother with it if they knew the truth.

Goa have mislead people into paying subs for the last six months and it should not be brushed under the carpet, they will soon be running the biggest thing to happen to MMOs since WoW in Europe and have proved that they are willing to do anything to cover up for the fact that they are doing nothing.

Everyone should write or email magazines to show people what these wankers are like.

Even easier, just strive to make sure that no one from any EU server plays EU WAR.

 

[ford prefect]

Luckily I rerolled on the US the moment that glastonbury became a german server. I played on classic and on the english cluster prior to that, but I suspected at the time that Dyvet would have a similar fate in the end, and it seems I was right.

Looks like US WAR is the way forward.

 

[Golena]

Many many VERY disturbing things from GOA employees in this thread

We have been looking into the technical abilities of our servers for some time, and as Requiel has said previously that we may be able to cluster again, this has appeared to be not the case."

This should of been the VERY first thing discussed before the inital clustering took place. It was blatently obvious that clustering was a temporary solution and that once the numbers fell the clusters would need to be re-clustered. If this wasn't highlighted at the VERY FIRST meeting and a 1-way solution regarding clustering was pursued then the entire lot of you should be fired instantly for incompetance.

I don't normally comment on DAoC stuff anymore but because of the situation and my previous experience here, I've asked if I can stick my oar in one last time.

The only reason your here is because you've suddenly realised that the amount of bad feeling here is going to directly impact your WAR subscriptions. Please stop the crap about "caring" about the Dyvet community. It's faked and insulting.

I told you as much as I could about the situation and everything I said was the truth. if I'd told a lie, then I'd have expected to have been instantly sacked..

Maybe you could answer 2 questions then.
1) When was it that GOA realised that clustering the server would not be possible (exact date please).
2) How much time elapsed before this was announced to the community.

You may not of directly lied but you sure as hell didn't tell us as much as posssible about the situation. GOA realised they were in a hole and instead of admitting it simply sat quiet for as long as possible, collecting money.

As to what will happen now, that's for Roaken and the rest of the DAoC team to hammer out. Believe it or not they do care about you and they do care about this game. I'm confident that they will continue to try and make things work in some way. There are a lot of dedicated people working on DAoC and they will continue to work hard for you. Whatever happens they will do it for the right reasons and will try to be as fair as possible to you all.

When did this new way of working come in?
They haven't given a crap about it for several months now and will continue to not give a crap about it for a while to come.

The characters on the server are just data at the end of the day. Data can be manipulated.
Please cut the crap about it not being possible to merge servers. Anyone with actual computing knowledge as opposed to some customer service GCSE knows that there's zero way it's impossible.

The correct answer is we can't be arsed to spend the money for a software engineer to actually work out how to do it as we don't feel it will generate enough revenue to be worth it. Next time please use that sentance instead of a complete bare faced LIE!
Given several of your jobs probably revolve around database management it might be time to stop hiring school leavers and actually get some qualified professionals in your organisation so these mistakes I wouldn't expect a new computer science graduate to make keep popping up.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Dudes, the truth is finally out, accept it and move on peeps, I think to be honest we all knew the answer already, but were not willing to accept it.

Merging the DB again after last time, hmm, we have short memories of the Pryd DB crash and the consequences.

If you all feel this strongly about the game, go US and reroll, yeah I know its a pain, but I moved 10 months ago and I can sincerely say that for only the first month did I look back. Now my main toons are higher RR and better equiped than my EU ones ever were.

As has been said a million times, let your feet do the talking if you feel that strongly, or with the answer you have from GOA now, theres only 2 options left, Avalon, or simply put up and shut up. Theres nothing going to change here.

 

[IainC]

Many many VERY disturbing things from GOA employees in this thread

The only reason your here is because you've suddenly realised that the amount of bad feeling here is going to directly impact your WAR subscriptions. Please stop the crap about "caring" about the Dyvet community. It's faked and insulting.

Not true. I'm here because I felt that the DAoC community would benefit from hearing some of the background and to back up Roaken who wasn't here when the initial consultations began.

Maybe you could answer 2 questions then.
1) When was it that GOA realised that clustering the server would not be possible (exact date please).
2) How much time elapsed before this was announced to the community.

1) To the best of my knowledge just before Roaken announced it in this thread. At that tme he was told by his manager that the multilanguage cluster as not going to work.
2) Less than a day or so, despite Raven's conspiracy theories.

You may not of directly lied but you sure as hell didn't tell us as much as posssible about the situation. GOA realised they were in a hole and instead of admitting it simply sat quiet for as long as possible, collecting money.

As I said we weren't 'sat quietly'. We were trying to find a sustainable solution to the problem on Dyvet and on other low population servers. We didn't want to announce what we were working on - again as I explained earlier - because there was a strong possibility that it wouldn't work and we didn't want to be in the situation where people felt we'd promised them a solution that we couldn't deliver. If we'd been pressed for a definite statement then the only definite options we had were to close the server or change the language and we know as well as you do that changing Dyvet into a German or a French server is going to kill it dead.

When did this new way of working come in?
They haven't given a crap about it for several months now and will continue to not give a crap about it for a while to come.

It's precisely because they give a crap that it's gone on this long. If no-one cared Dyvet would have been absorbed or closed down a long time ago. People have been trying to make this work because they do care about the English server.

The characters on the server are just data at the end of the day. Data can be manipulated.
Please cut the crap about it not being possible to merge servers. Anyone with actual computing knowledge as opposed to some customer service GCSE knows that there's zero way it's impossible.

The correct answer is we can't be arsed to spend the money for a software engineer to actually work out how to do it as we don't feel it will generate enough revenue to be worth it. Next time please use that sentance instead of a complete bare faced LIE!
Given several of your jobs probably revolve around database management it might be time to stop hiring school leavers and actually get some qualified professionals in your organisation so these mistakes I wouldn't expect a new computer science graduate to make keep popping up.

You are correct when you say that characters are just data and can be manipulated however you're not taking into account the fact that we are limited not by our technical expertise, but by the restrictions on our licence. As much as we might like to the back-end is not our code to hack around with.
Similarly there are significant technical issues, it's not a simple case of running a script to merge databases, there are still localisation issues that would require a lot of development work to resolve.

No-one has lied to you, no-one is trying to make you believe anything that isn't true. For various reasons neither Roaken or myself can discuss technical or contractual details but a lot of people have spent a long time trying to find a way around this problem. The simple fact that they've kept trying for so long should stop any suggestions that we don't care. Obviously people are going to be upset by this news. I'm upset - I still play my characters with my friends on Dyvet. Unfortunately the reality is that Dyvet cannot be clustered further. What happens next is down to Roaken and the team, you can work with him here and try to salvage the situation or not. That part is up to you.

 

[Jupiter]

I sit here and wonder how its come to this. Petty denial and counter accusation. I look back at my last 5 years with Prydwen and now Dyvet and wonder how its come to this.

I am in no doubt the best of the best ran at some stage on Prydwen or Pryden/Exclaibur cluster (bar the rr12 retards that now poison the system). The guilds like of Public Enemies, Maelstrom, Groove, Dem Hibbes, Nobly Pride, Eclipse, TDD, Severants of the Lake, Everlast?, Midget Mafia etc etc... Individual players like Maeloch, Aran, Araudry (old), Bfr etc etc and i wonder where it all went wrong.

Yes looking back now and the nerfs that have since been introduced, TOA was a disaster, but it took 3 years for Mythic/GOA to acknowledge this and now have we got to the stage of extinction for the cluster.

Now we have rr12 arseholes running around that "IN THE DAY" wouldnt be fit to lace the any of the above boots. Yes i realise that peoples circumstances changed but the human physce is based on trying to topple the king of the hill and GOA never marketed this, never even tried.

Now we have a petty arguement between current GM plus previous GM versus the rest that serves nothing, WWE never had it so good. There are and always have been obtions available to solve the situation but alas it reminds me of the knight in Indian Jones and the Last Crusade waiting for the inevitable

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Reading Requiel makes me wonder how GoA got the players and me to play on their servers in the first place?

 

[Cylian]

anyone know which kinds of payment Mythic accepts for WAR?

 

[Gahn]

anyone know which kinds of payment Mythic accepts for WAR?

Same as Us Daoc (or so it was told in an interview)

 

[kiliarien]

Nay I win this thread!!! I started it Although I happen to know what Manisch is saying is actually correct.

Technically you're right, 1-0 to Ingormiel. Though:

I see no reason why not, have a rep for being facecious (and yesh it is the only English word with all the vowels in it that run in the correct sequence )

It's facetious bud - nice attempt at being a language expert though

For once (I might have to hurt myself after for this) I agree with Manisch too and with those who followed on after - the service is just too crap, both tech end and service end. Not many games seem to have had the backlash that GoA have on forums, yet Mythic stick by them - what are they, all in the same Freemasons (or whatever the French version is) club together and do funny handshakes to get contracts?? uke:

 

[Scrinthe]

Just read this thread from start to finish ...with a Hangover ...

One question that I still do not have a answer to though is :

ARE WE GOING TO GET A CHAR TRANSFER OPTION AT SOME POINT TO US OR NOT ?




My main PC blew up the other week ...so both my accounts are closed atm but will be back once I can afford all the bits I need ( going to build a new PC and Ebay the bits that still work from the busted one )

 

[old.Whoodoo]

ARE WE GOING TO GET A CHAR TRANSFER OPTION AT SOME POINT TO US OR NOT ?

GOA answered that one ages ago, due to their sh*te payment system the answer was...

Spoiler

You guessed it.....No!

 

[Golena]

and we know as well as you do that changing Dyvet into a German or a French server is going to kill it dead.

You've got an ingame poll system..

Has anyone actually at least asked the question?

As far as these forums go 95% of the server is currently only playing on Dyvet because they don't want to go through the effort of re-rolling and their mates are on Dyvet. It's obvious that the forums don't actually represent the playing population. Only one way to find out what people actually want really isn't there.

If Dyvet isn't clustered when WAR hits then your only option will be to pull the power anyway.

 

[Morloch]

I read a lot, but don't post often...

I read all of this thread last night - was fairly blue by the end of it - blue (angry) and blue (upset).

There are a couple of points I feel I need to comment on...

1: The database... Well I've worked with a company that has specialised in database conversions/merges/transfers for many years now - haven't found one yet that can't be done (and we work with government based DB's - which is about as bad as it gets ). True, we don't know exactly what the differences between GOA and Mythic/EA DB's are, but as long as the UK players are prepared to accept that one or two things may need to be sacrificed (like anything gained from a GOA specific quest or any GOA specific items - assuming a merge with US servers) then it shouldn't be a massive problem.


2:The information flow.. I can accept most of what Requiel/Roaken have said. What's more, I suspect most if not all was said in good faith. What I cannot however accept is the appalingly bad communication stream from GOA in general. Go read the US herald - it's updated almost daily.. by humans... who seem to be having an honest conversation with their customers most of the time... Some of the best damd customer communication I've seen to be honest. GOA's on the other hand is getting on for being the worst...!

3: Where next? An awful lot of the people left on Dyvet are seasoned players - many of them read these boards. Many have been hanging on for some time waiting for a 'magic fix' from GOA. I would imagine that a fair proportion, like me will be thinking of closing accounts and moving to US or in my case re-opening existing accounts there.

I see GOA having a couple of options - Get to work on figuring out the clustering clusters problem (or de-cluster/re-cluster, etc, etc), figure out how to merge UK with US server...please don't tell me localisation will be an issue here... I know the yanks barely speak English, but we do at least pretend to share the same language...:touch: - If they can cluster a japanese server in to a US one... well a UK server or two should be a snap.

Whatever they do, they need to vastly improve the communication - unless the goal IS to have the cluster die...?

Roaken? Requiel?

Care to tell us what the plan is? - we are big boys... we can take it... Telling us nothing at this point is probably your worst option.

 

[Bluesky]

What happens next is down to Roaken and the team, you can work with him here and try to salvage the situation or not.

How in any way can we, your paying customers possibly salvage the situation??

How can we "work" with Roaken??

GOA have stated through yourself and Roaken there is no chance of character transfer or no cluster possibilites. What other "options" do you consider viable alternatives to improve our dying and soon to be dead cluster??

That part is up to you.

NO, It's not! It's up to GOA. Don't dare patronise your customers with yet more empty/false hope or promises.

 

[Scrinthe]

GOA answered that one ages ago, due to their sh*te payment system the answer was...

Spoiler

You guessed it.....No!

Damn !!!!

( would shout swear words but I do not wanna make this headache worse )


I am sure some say it is possable .... but they have not said they will not do it ...

That is why I asked the question ...

A 100% NOT A CAT IN HELLS CHANCE quote from GOA's lips would be nice clarity to this imo.


I have Chars I love on Dyvet .... I like most do not want to lose them ...

Easy to re-roll on US people say ... but those new Chars will not be the ones we love and spent sooooo much time getting to were we wanted to get them :/

 

[Golena]

How in any way can we, your paying customers possibly salvage the situation??

How can we "work" with Roaken??

They could get rid of the level and RR requirements for entering Cathal Valley and shut off the NF part of the server.
The BG would probably be a fairly good size to support the remaining players on the cluster.

A more realistic solution would be to provide a /level 50 command on the German servers if you have a 50 on Dyvet. Get it over and done with..

What will actually happen is they will do nothing and keep telling us it's our fault for complaining about it.

 

[Bluesky]

They could get rid of the level and RR requirements for entering Cathal Valley

LOL and i actually suggested those changes to Cathal Valley many months ago here on FH and then erm prompty forgot about it. I love that place but shame its been totally dead ever since it came into the game for us but it would be an ideal mini-solution for a few things - more ppl in 1 place and an old frontiers "feel" with PK's etc.

What will actually happen is they will do nothing and keep telling us it's our fault for complaining about it.

Yup, you're probably right tbh

 

[Jiggs]

I guess what you need to hear is Mythic's opinion on the possibilities. GOA are content to hide behind lines such as "it's not our code" and "work with us to solve the problem" (this is particularly amusing: how do you work with people who take 8 months to get back to you?)

The solutions are very simple either:
a. offer Dyvet customers a character transfer to a US server
b. Uncluster Dyvet and move Excalibur and Prydwen to a US cluster.

Didn't Mythic do this with the Asian server they were running?

Finally I'm not sure why the english servers are looked after by GOA anyway. They clearly are more interested and support the german and french customers/markets far more that in the UK. GOA's employees are clearly well trained in being polite to you; but ultimately they know their payday is going to come from the poor fools who sign up for WAR knowing nothing about GOA's incompetence in managing the english DAoC servers.

Tell your friends! Make sure when WAR comes out there is a De Facto "euro" server on Mythic's servers. Leave GOA to the German and French markets and be done with it.

 

[delete]

rofl, im glad i stopped paying those frog eaters.

 

[IainC]

GOA answered that one ages ago, due to their sh*te payment system the answer was...

Spoiler

You guessed it.....No!

Nothing to do with the billing system. Everything to do with accounts. You don't have an English account or a French account or a Camlann account. You pay to access any of the European servers and many people play more than one language or server type. It would be exactly the same if Mythic split part of their playtform off to another provider, you don't have a Bossiney account or a Devon account.

You've got an ingame poll system..

Has anyone actually at least asked the question?

As far as these forums go 95% of the server is currently only playing on Dyvet because they don't want to go through the effort of re-rolling and their mates are on Dyvet. It's obvious that the forums don't actually represent the playing population. Only one way to find out what people actually want really isn't there.

If Dyvet isn't clustered when WAR hits then your only option will be to pull the power anyway.

How in any way can we, your paying customers possibly salvage the situation??

How can we "work" with Roaken??

GOA have stated through yourself and Roaken there is no chance of character transfer or no cluster possibilites. What other "options" do you consider viable alternatives to improve our dying and soon to be dead cluster??

NO, It's not! It's up to GOA. Don't dare patronise your customers with yet more empty/false hope or promises.

You're assuming there is going to be no further intervention of any kind. Now that the situation has changed, things will be reassessed. You can be a part of that process by making your views and preferences known in a calm and constructive manner. Or you can flame and misquote out-of-date information to stir up hysteria. One course of action will give you a better chance of a solution that you will like, the other is just cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[Cylian]

You're assuming there is going to be no further intervention of any kind. Now that the situation has changed, things will be reassessed. You can be a part of that process by making your views and preferences known in a calm and constructive manner. Or you can flame and misquote out-of-date information to stir up hysteria. One course of action will give you a better chance of a solution that you will like, the other is just cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Like offering ideas what could be done, like last year around this time ?
And then wait another year without further information by GOA that it's not going to happen ?