explosions at the boston marathon

[Scouse]

They hate the US and UK just because they do.

Despite being British not a fan of the UK or US either. Is that "just because" as well?

Or is it just possible that there are reasons?

Change the conditions?

Yes. Change the conditions. If you are unable to understand what I'm getting at then your educational level is part of the "conditions" I'd like to see changed

 

[Aada]

I remember a young 6 year old Afghan girl blown to bits 2 miles from our FOB we rushed down there as fast as we could we got there nothing we could do the father was screaming for us to hunt down the Taliban and kill them all as he was sick to death of them and their ways of coming to the village and taking anything they wanted. From that day on the village was always friendly to us. It works both ways in terms of what you are saying.

 

[Aada]

Despite being British not a fan of the UK or US either. Is that "just because" as well?

Or is it just possible that there are reasons?




Yes. Change the conditions. If you are unable to understand what I'm getting at then your educational level is part of the "conditions" I'd like to see changed

What conditions would you change? Let's hear it.

 

[fettoken]

Change the conditions? Good luck trying to change fanatical views that will never be changed. They hate the US and UK just because they do.

Son, you've been brainwashed by the military.

 

[Aada]

Son, you've been brainwashed by the military.

I wore my tin foil hat.

 

[Tuthmes]

I wore my tin foil hat.

More like depleted uranium hat.

 

[DaGaffer]

I remember a young 6 year old Afghan girl blown to bits 2 miles from our FOB we rushed down there as fast as we could we got there nothing we could do the father was screaming for us to hunt down the Taliban and kill them all as he was sick to death of them and their ways of coming to the village and taking anything they wanted. From that day on the village was always friendly to us. It works both ways in terms of what you are saying.

Well of course he fucking was, and five minutes after a drone strike he'd be saying the same thing to the Taliban about the Americans. So while it does indeed work both ways, the difference is, eventually the Westerners will be gone, the Taliban won't, so they win by default (unless we commit genocide). And "Taliban" is a western bogey-man designed to put a media face on a bunch of Pashtun tribes who are no-more a single entity than Al-Qeada are. The hill tribes have always come down to the lowland villages and "taken anything they wanted"; the fuckers were bandits long before they were radicalised bandits. Also, in the case of your example, the little girl was blown up by an IED I presume? Why was the IED there?

What conditions would you change? Let's hear it.

• Different things in different places. In Afghanistan, leave, accept the people have to come to their solution, seal the borders as best you can (which isn't much) to stop opium smuggling. Accept you'll have to go back from time to time when training camps pop up. Sudan would be similar.
• Iraq. Too late, but in general terms, withdraw western militaries from Arab states.
• Stop automatically vetoing any UN resolutions against Israel (or abstaining, Mr. Cameron).
• Everywhere else, leave them alone, but that also means leaving them alone to sort out their own issues (e.g. Syria), even when its not the humanitarian thing to do. Interventions can only come when new governments are recognised by the UN and the UN goes in, not NATO (its what the UN is for ffs)
• Iran. Honestly don't know. Ahmadinejad's rhetoric makes it difficult to ignore Iran but the country is bigger threat to its neighbours than us so let them formulate a response.

 

[Mabs]

 

[rynnor]

Do you think it's possible that we just won't find out who was responsible for this?

Someone will be found to be responsible in such a high profile case...

 

[Job]

Im suggesting wiping the whole country out with neutron bombs and then repopulating it with sensible white people...just an idea..not a new one.

 

[soze]

All you can do is change the conditions that give rise to why people feel the need to make and plant bombs in the first place.

How can you do that when British born Muslims hate us and everything about us? If we pull out of every Muslim country in the world do you think that would be the end of it. Or would they then move on to the next demand. Like outlawing Christianity or wanting to allow Sharia law.

Like it or not there is now a generation of Muslims who hate us because the government decided to invade. And you not agreeing with the invasion will not save you getting hit with a nail bomb. If and when we do pull out over there we need to close our borders to people returning after 10 year trips or we could be in for a lot of trouble back home.

*This is just about fanatics by the way i obviously recognize that the vast majority of British born Muslims do not want us dead just for being white Christians.

 

[Raven]

The minority of British born Muslims who do have a problem with us only do it because they are brainwashed by religious nut jobs. I know loads of Muslims that are perfectly functioning human beings who don't want to blow shit up.

 

[soze]

*This is just about fanatics by the way i obviously recognize that the vast majority of British born Muslims do not want us dead just for being white Christians.

That is why I put this just in case someone thought I was talking about all Muslims.

 

[rynnor]

And that's the real problem. I guarantee that today there will guys going out from all the London boroughs to tape up rubbish bins and postboxes like in the bad old days of the IRA. You can also bet this will be the stick used to finally formalise random stop and search and God knows what else.

I was always worried that one day there would be a change of tactics; cheap bombs and lots of 'em are potentially far more disruptive than going for aircraft etc. Plus, look at the scenes from Boston; the one thing you don't see all over the internet when a plane goes down is the mangled bodies and all the blood. In a way this is far more impactful.



And in the end we'll give up more and hurt ourselves more than all the drones and Hellfires in the world can achieve.

There arent really many rubbish bins in london anymore - long gone to the IRA threat.

I am more optimistic that there wont be an over reaction - as you say it would be stupid to sacrifice fundamental freedoms because of fear.

 

[Mabs]

ive always thought that this was a reasonably good explanation


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VatPKqTgzh4

 

[Talivar]

Every Action has a Reaction, the only way forward is to start to think of this BEFORE you take an action instead of waiting to you get the reaction before you go apeshit and try changes laws and stuff. An example would be the fact how America and the CIA in particular used to train and supply people and make them act as terroists towards countries America did not like or needed to keep in turmoil. This was an action with anythought of consequence, the reaction of cause was one of these men was named Bin Laden and decided one day it was America who was the enemy.
We need to spend more time working on the reasons why terroists and non terroists decide to try to kill us and try to remove the problems before they even arrive. Easier said than done but far more logical,

 

[Zenith]

Seriously, I think any rhetoric or argument involving "us" or "them" is just misplaced and/or ignorant.. Do all "Westerners" hate arabs or persians? No. Depends on where you are though. I see minorities hating every where I go in Europe, but I guess it's worse in the US.

Do all arabs or persians hate the West? What my friends tell me of Iran, for example, there IS a huge disrepancy between the executive branch and the people. Especially in the HUGE young segment of the Iranian population, the hate of the US aint in majority.

We have to be REALLY careful to not create a simplified "us and them" scenario. Too easy to believe in.

 

[Job]

I have a serious problem with a whole 'race' of people who believe theres a man in the sky who oversees their lives and that they must follow the teachings of an ancient made up book..that level of obedient brainwashing is not something thatgives me confidence in their motives.

 

[Cerb]

I have a serious problem with a whole 'race' of people who believe theres a man in the sky who oversees their lives and that they must follow the teachings of an ancient made up book..that level of obedient brainwashing is not something thatgives me confidence in their motives.

Yeah your right those British Christans are mental

 

[Scouse]

I have a serious problem with a whole 'race' of people who believe theres a man in the sky who oversees their lives and that they must follow the teachings of an ancient made up book..that level of obedient brainwashing is not something thatgives me confidence in their motives.

So, you have a serious problem with humans then?

 

[Raven]

I still say we need a facepalm and poor spelling and grammar c c c c combo breaker

 

[Cerb]

Yeah your right those British Christans are mental

You're*

 

[Wij]

He's not putting his head in the sand. He's quite logically saying that you can't use military force or pass laws to stop this thing. History shows this - and shows that when you do things get worse, not better - for everyone.

Right.

All you can do is change the conditions that give rise to why people feel the need to make and plant bombs in the first place.

Wrong.

This is just western guilt-politics (mostly.) People make bombs for all kinds of reasons. Most of them do not make sense. Conspiracy-theorists blow shit up because they believe insane stuff. Find your own examples here, there are plenty to choose from.

Do we even know this was an Islamist attack yet? Forgive me if I've missed something but my point still stands even if this one turns out to be Islamist.

Specifically on Islamists, but also remembering that all kinds of people do terrible acts for all kinds of insane reasons that we can't account for, the majority of deaths Islamists cause are against Muslims in non-western countries. The cold war between Saudi and Iran has ramped up tensions across the middle east and given every sociopath with a bunch of hangers on an excuse to pick on the local minorities. Feel free to nail yourself to a cross to find things that the west did that might have helped bring this situation about but the ultimate cause in every case is some fucker being a murderer. Nobody has forced them to rape women rather than engage in dialogue, to behead rather than compromise or to call for Salman Rushdie's death rather than read a book.

To attempt to alter conditions to stop people wanting to kill you is something that can only be taken a little way. Some people will want to kill you if you do something that other people will want to kill you if you don't do. Furthermore, appeasement usually just increases the unreasonableness of the demands.

It sickens me that there are supposedly liberal minds in free countries who think that, for instance, Rushdie really only has himself to blame.

 

[Hawkwind]

Shrapnel bombs in bins, very IRA type bombing. Boston along with New York was where NORAID collected most of their funds used to support the IRA. History is a bitch!

Heard that an 8 year old kid died watching his dad cross the line. Hope they catch and crucify the fuckers! Going to be a backlash on muslims in Boston if this was one of their groups.

 

[Tom]

I found it quite sad that people were "praying" for the survivors. Newsflash, your god was the one who allowed the bombs to be planted in the first place!

 

[fettoken]

I still say we need a facepalm and poor spelling and grammar c c c c combo breaker

 

[Scouse]

Wrong.

Whilst I don't disagree with much of what you say in your post I'd also say that conditions of social inequality, rampant rape of the environment, idiotic political decisions (automatic vetoing of UN resolutions against Israel) and unjustified warmongering (Iraq, Afghanistan) are rational reasons to hate the status quo.

Governments use military force to bring about the changes they are unable to achieve polticially. This is murder too. Plain and simple. And it goes hand in hand with all the atrocities and injustices that are concomitant with such acts.

If an individual, or group, feel that there's no other recourse but direct violent action - which is, frankly, the only thing that governments can't ignore - then it doesn't automatically make them "insane" or "unjustified".

Or have we gone back to calling Mandela a terrorist? It was a-ok for him to blow up women and children in churches because of injustice. He's met the Queen and been honoured by poltiicians the world over. He's idolised - but still a murderer of innocents.

Or is the colour of your skin the only "legitimate" thing to plant bombs over?

 

[Scouse]

Going to be a backlash on muslims in Boston if this was one of their groups.

I think there's going to be a backlash on muslims regardless of whether it was them or not. - In fact I think muslims in the US have probably been having a hard time for the past 12 years (and more).

I doubt it was a jihadist group tbfh.

 

[rynnor]

On the plus sides of Police state UK if it had happened over here we would have identified the bomber from copious amounts of CCTV footage by now seeing as we have cameras literally everywhere in cities...

 

[caLLous]

I found it quite sad that people were "praying" for the survivors. Newsflash, your god was the one who allowed the bombs to be planted in the first place!

This.

This also irks me about natural disasters. I thought god was in charge of all that shit? And he made it happen? And you're mumbling to him even more as a direct result? Gotcha.