Politics Election 2019

[Scouse]

Better than being dead though.

Absolutely.

Maybe the government could look at WFH procedures eh? Why anyone has to attend an office to process driving licence applications boggles my mind.

 

[Bodhi]

Better than being dead though.

With the DVLA how would you tell the difference?

 

[DaGaffer]

No, having dealt with the DVLA before they're pretty bad, and shutting them down for 18 months along with the rest of society is now starting to look like a really stupid idea.

I must have missed the memo where the DVLA were responsible for issue of licences to potato pickers. Or Hotel staff. Or water filtration systems, or CO2 suppliers. Or Butchers. Wow, the DVLA really is an all-powerful organisation!

 

[Tom]

We didn't have a shortage of fuel drivers.

There has been a HGV driver shortage in this country for a long time. This is an article from 2014.

UK transport industry suffers due to shortage of qualified HGV drivers | cap hpi

There has been an acute shortage of qualified HGV drivers in the UK transport industry for some considerable time, but the situation has worsened over recent months.There are several causes for this,

business.cap.co.uk

Your reminder that the current crop of Etonian twats have done FUCK ALL about any of this. They are FUCKING USELESS.

 

[Scouse]

So in 2014 they were complaining about "acute" and long-standing (which is an oxymoron - acute and long time is chronic, not acute) HGV driver shortages and they were whining that HGV drivers were now being told they had to pass 35-hours of basic safety training every five years - and the Brits didn't want to have to do it (because = lazy over 50's).

And yet, despite these chronic shortages - non of the issues manifest themselves until Brexit stopped free movement of people - and hamstrung our ability to fill our gaps with drivers from over the continent.

It's cut-and-dried 100% brexit baked-in shitness.

 

[Embattle]

Periodic CPC training is rather boring for quite a few drivers, a lot of them feel it involves being told how to suck eggs.

 

[DaGaffer]

So in 2014 they were complaining about "acute" and long-standing (which is an oxymoron - acute and long time is chronic, not acute) HGV driver shortages and they were whining that HGV drivers were now being told they had to pass 35-hours of basic safety training every five years - and the Brits didn't want to have to do it (because = lazy over 50's).

And yet, despite these chronic shortages - non of the issues manifest themselves until Brexit stopped free movement of people - and hamstrung our ability to fill our gaps with drivers from over the continent.

It's cut-and-dried 100% brexit baked-in shitness.

Of course it is. What is incredible is the denial; you build an economic model based on a huge flexible pool of cheap labour and then take it away and claim its loss has nothing to do everything going titsup? Since the pool of cheap labour was the main reason people voted Brexit in the first place, what kind of epic cognitive dissonance do you need to square that circle?

What's particularly depressing is the lefty Brexiteers who are crowing that this was always the plan and now everyone will get paid more. Sure, for about 20 minutes. All rising wages will do is make the business case for increased automation easier to make, and if you've got the money, cut out the human element altogether. Uber's business model, but for an entire country.

 

[Scouse]

Periodic CPC training is rather boring for quite a few drivers, a lot of them feel it involves being told how to suck eggs.

Lots of people through my organisation don't like doing their mandatory training - but loads of them are shit at things until they've done their mandatory training. And they need refreshers.

Truck drivers are no different. In fact - they're in charge of lethal vehicles, not financial instruments.

 

[Scouse]

What's particularly depressing is the lefty Brexiteers who are crowing that this was always the plan and now everyone will get paid more. Sure, for about 20 minutes. All rising wages will do is make the business case for increased automation easier to make, and if you've got the money, cut out the human element altogether. Uber's business model, but for an entire country.

Automation is a good thing.

If you can do it without humans, then it's pointless waste of life for humans.

The thing that capitalism was supposed to bring was 20 hour work weeks at this level of wages. Automation will just go in the pockets of the rich, unfortunately, but it doesn't have to.

 

[Scouse]

Lots of people through my organisation don't like doing their mandatory training - but loads of them are shit at things until they've done their mandatory training. And they need refreshers.

Truck drivers are no different. In fact - they're in charge of lethal vehicles, not financial instruments.

Just a disagree @Embattle? No explanation why truck drivers shouldn't take refresher courses for their lethal vehicles?

I mean, you're one of the ones who's said it's hard to be an HGV driver. Which is it? Is it so easy they don't need refreshers, or so hard that they must?

 

[Embattle]

I said for many it is still about sucking eggs, nothing more and I stand by that statement. The majority of the syllabus rarely changes and each section covers quite a lot of the same things and none of it involves anything practical so I would question why under you terms that changes much of the lethality of a lorry. Originally a lot of companies also didn't pay for the mandatory CPC training and even worse it meant drivers not only paid for the training but also lost wages. You add in other factors such as poor wages, long hours, poor conditions and poor facilities which have been endemic to the industry for sometime now then is easy to understand why the average age of a lorry driver is 55 which in essence they couldn't attract fresh blood hence the 60,000 shortfall pre Brexit. Then you add in Brexit, pandemic and the fact that drivers are in demand across Europe then those drivers don't gain much from coming over here, so now the shortfall is 100,000.

BTW The extension in driver hours may not have the effect the government hopes, it may push more out of the industry.

 

[Syri]

I said for many it is still about sucking eggs, nothing more and I stand by that statement. The majority of the syllabus rarely changes and each section covers quite a lot of the same things and none of it involves anything practical so I would question why under you terms that changes much of the lethality of a lorry. Originally a lot of companies also didn't pay for the mandatory CPC training and even worse it meant drivers not only paid for the training but also lost wages. You add in other factors such as poor wages, long hours, poor conditions and poor facilities which have been endemic to the industry for sometime now then is easy to understand why the average age of a lorry driver is 55 which in essence they couldn't attract fresh blood hence the 60,000 shortfall pre Brexit. Then you add in Brexit, pandemic and the fact that drivers are in demand across Europe then those drivers don't gain much from coming over here, so now the shortfall is 100,000.

BTW The extension in driver hours may not have the effect the government hopes, it may push more out of the industry.

OK, do you drive? If so, how many bad habits have you picked up since passing your test? you know, those little things that make it a little easier or more comfortable but the instructor said not to do it as it's not allowed in the test. Pretty sure most drivers end up picking up enough bad habits to fail their test if faced with re-taking it. Now, imagine you're not driving a small car but instead a large truck carrying an even larger and heavier trailer attached at a pivot point, where one wrong move could see it swing or topple, turning you into a passenger as you no longer have any control over the vehicle.
Having refreshers helps to keep the correct and safe procedures fresh in the driver's mind. It might seem pointless to some, and a lot will say they can do just fine anyway, but when you're in charge of a vehicle which requires so much extra thought and consideration to keep it going and get it around, what's a few minutes training every few years? Far better than falling into bad habits, leading to not being able to react in time if something does go wrong.
Sure, there are some drivers that won't pay attention anyway, and there will still be some who get things wrong and cause problems. There are also some situations that no amount of training can prepare you for, but if you've seen the damage an out of control truck can cause, wouldn't it be better to give drivers as much chance of possible of controlling any possible situations they could end up in?
As is often the case, there's two sides to a situation. I think you could do to learn that, and think about it, rather than just seeing one side of it and dismissing any counter to your initial opinion (and this isn't just for Embattle, it seems to be a common trait around here)

 

[Embattle]

OK, do you drive? If so, how many bad habits have you picked up since passing your test? you know, those little things that make it a little easier or more comfortable but the instructor said not to do it as it's not allowed in the test. Pretty sure most drivers end up picking up enough bad habits to fail their test if faced with re-taking it. Now, imagine you're not driving a small car but instead a large truck carrying an even larger and heavier trailer attached at a pivot point, where one wrong move could see it swing or topple, turning you into a passenger as you no longer have any control over the vehicle.
Having refreshers helps to keep the correct and safe procedures fresh in the driver's mind. It might seem pointless to some, and a lot will say they can do just fine anyway, but when you're in charge of a vehicle which requires so much extra thought and consideration to keep it going and get it around, what's a few minutes training every few years? Far better than falling into bad habits, leading to not being able to react in time if something does go wrong.
Sure, there are some drivers that won't pay attention anyway, and there will still be some who get things wrong and cause problems. There are also some situations that no amount of training can prepare you for, but if you've seen the damage an out of control truck can cause, wouldn't it be better to give drivers as much chance of possible of controlling any possible situations they could end up in?
As is often the case, there's two sides to a situation. I think you could do to learn that, and think about it, rather than just seeing one side of it and dismissing any counter to your initial opinion (and this isn't just for Embattle, it seems to be a common trait around here)

CPC are not practical refreshers so they won't do anything towards bad habits.

 

[Tom]

Truck drivers don't need regular checks? Could have fooled me. Brand new protected cycleway in Chorlton, Manchester. Built along a very, very busy road to reasonably high standards. And this twat goes and does this.


View: https://twitter.com/Boxrick/status/1442779923207368705

 

[Bodhi]

That looks incredibly difficult to cycle round in fairness. Really really hard.

 

[Scouse]

That looks incredibly difficult to cycle round in fairness. Really really hard.

You expect everyone to be skilled enough to bunny-hop onto pavements (illegal) and off again? I know people who would be terriffied at that idea.

Or should they swerve into the carriageway that the cycle lane is there to stop them doing?


Sounds like you're a fucking biking ninja m8.

Of course, the cunt could have parked somewhere else?

 

[Tom]

That looks incredibly difficult to cycle round in fairness. Really really hard.

Now try it on a cargo bicycle. Or cargo tricycle. Now expect a 12-year-old girl to cycle there as the lorry moves off, the driver unaware of her presence.

Now see how easy it is on a disability scooter. Or see how easy it is for someone in a wheelchair.

Worst case, now see how easy it is for an ambulance driver to use that cycleway as he bypasses the road which is blocked daily by heavy congestion.

 

[Bodhi]

Now try it on a cargo bicycle. Or cargo tricycle. Now expect a 12-year-old girl to cycle there as the lorry moves off, the driver unaware of her presence.

Now see how easy it is on a disability scooter. Or see how easy it is for someone in a wheelchair.

Worst case, now see how easy it is for an ambulance driver to use that cycleway as he bypasses the road which is blocked daily by heavy congestion.

But the ambulance would squish the 12 year old on her cargo tricycle?

 

[Bodhi]

You expect everyone to be skilled enough to bunny-hop onto pavements (illegal) and off again? I know people who would be terriffied at that idea.

Or should they swerve into the carriageway that the cycle lane is there to stop them doing?


Sounds like you're a fucking biking ninja m8.

Of course, the cunt could have parked somewhere else?

Quite difficult to get the context from a rage post on social media by a lycra enthusiast, but perhaps he's parked there as it's the only place to unload the scaffolding, and he'll be gone shortly. Seems a fairly easy obstacle to get past though, even for a less confident cyclist. Dismount, mount kerb, get past, get on with day. You could even do some tutting or a sharp intake of breath if you REALLY wanted to display your displeasure.

 

[Raven]

Cyclists move for......................no man.

 

[Scouse]

Seems a fairly easy obstacle to get past

Like cyclists on roads, right?

But you get screamed at, rage and punishment passed, things thrown at you, cars coming past and breaktesting you.

It's fucking horrid being a cyclist on british roads because wankers and cowards in air-conditioned vehicles with heated-seats don't like waiting a little bit before flexing their right ankle a small amount to sail past with no effort.

As a pedestrian and a car driver who previously used to drive up to 30,000 miles a year I think anyone who sees this picture in a different way is a cunt, IMO.

 

[Tom]

only place to unload the scaffolding

If you can't see the gigantic road to the left then perhaps you need an eyesight test. Maybe the fumes from your Golf or Sony collection have addled your brain.

 

[Bodhi]

If you can't see the gigantic road to the left then perhaps you need an eyesight test. Maybe the fumes from your Golf or Sony collection have addled your brain.

I can see a main road that's potentially a lot further away from where the scaffolding needs to be, that would be partially blocked during the unloading process if that's what you mean. It's probably better that they inconvenience the occasional cyclist - despite the inherent anger management issues the hobby seems to bring out in people - than cause congestion on a main road, and all the associated increases in particulate emissions that comes with it in my book.

Oh and 2005 called, it would quite like its attempted put down back. Maybe the constant state of rage you seem to live in is affecting the creative part of your brain?

 

[Scouse]

Oh and 2005 called, it would quite like its attempted put down back.

BMW and Sony tho, right?

 

[Bodhi]

BMW and Sony tho, right?

Watch this space, might be an Alfa next

 

[Scouse]

Watch this space, might be an Alfa next

Car + Sony

I don't know why you bother with the cars any more though. It's A) a young man's game and B) what's the point - the UK is horrid to drive around nowadays.

 

[Bodhi]

Car + Sony

I don't know why you bother with the cars any more though. It's A) a young man's game and B) what's the point - the UK is horrid to drive around nowadays.

A) I'm only 41! B) I need it for work C) Public Transport is the work of satan D) It's still more than possible to amuse yourself on the roads round here E) I'm not cycling the 7 miles to golf towing my trolley F) I want one.

 

[Scouse]

I'm only 41!

Old

 

[Gwadien]

Old

Mid life crisis Alfa.

 

[Bodhi]

Well we're (hopefully) buying a house with space for 4 cars on the drive, and we currently only have one, so need to get fleet building