Politics Election 2019

Who will you vote for 2019 UK GE

  • Con

    Votes: 9 37.5%

  • Lab

    Votes: 3 12.5%

  • Lib Dem

    Votes: 9 37.5%

  • Brexit

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 3 12.5%
  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .
Raven

Raven

Fuck the Tories!
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It's also what happens when people pretending to be green groups drive support away.
 
Scouse

Scouse

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Raven said:
It's also what happens when people pretending to be green groups drive support away.
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Lol! Tenuous.

If sitting down in a road drives people away maybe they need to start killing tens of thousands through apathy and incompetence to gain votes like the Tories eh?
 
Raven

Raven

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Sure. But you obviously don't understand human psychology so any debate on it is pointless :)
 
Scouse

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Raven said:
Sure. But you obviously don't understand human psychology so any debate on it is pointless :)
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Disagree. Understand it reasonably well - enough to know how our emotional responses don't drive the best outcomes.

It's why I pressed you on "what should they do after 30 years of being ignored".

From a psychological standpoint saying - "Stop, you're annoying us" is only going to egg them on because annoying is a massive improvement over being ignored - so it's not self defeating.

If we can't offer a better route for their direct action - the thing I pushed you on - then they *have* to continue.
 
Raven

Raven

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But I, and many other people, already understand the need to change.

If you can't understand how stopping people getting to work/hospital/going about their lives is not going to get them to support you, then it's a waste of effort :)

Especially when said group is quite clearly a scam (listen to their official spokesman)
 
Gwadien

Gwadien

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Raven said:
But I, and many other people, already understand the need to change.

If you can't understand how stopping people getting to work/hospital/going about their lives is not going to get them to support you, then it's a waste of effort :)

Especially when said group is quite clearly a scam (listen to their official spokesman)
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Nah, protesting against the lack of government funding for insulation and not having it yourself isn't hypocrisy, maybe they genuinely couldn't afford it?

I saw GB news running a similar story where one of their members was under fire for not insulating one of their old homes, which was a few homes ago.

Ultimately, I support them, because it's their freedom to do so, and I find the people that say 'if you just stood by the side of the road, we would support you' are the biggest liars of all.

End of the day, if they didn't protest nobody would bat an eyelid at a proposal to insulate homes across the UK, but now people are somehow opposed to it, out of bitterness of their tactics.

It's like supporting civil rights then deciding not to because people protested for them, pretty weird tbh.
 
Raven

Raven

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Gwadien said:
Nah, protesting against the lack of government funding for insulation and not having it yourself isn't hypocrisy, maybe they genuinely couldn't afford it?

I saw GB news running a similar story where one of their members was under fire for not insulating one of their old homes, which was a few homes ago.

Ultimately, I support them, because it's their freedom to do so, and I find the people that say 'if you just stood by the side of the road, we would support you' are the biggest liars of all.

End of the day, if they didn't protest nobody would bat an eyelid at a proposal to insulate homes across the UK, but now people are somehow opposed to it, out of bitterness of their tactics.

It's like supporting civil rights then deciding not to because people protested for them, pretty weird tbh.
Click to expand...

...He also said he doesn't care about insulation...
 
Scouse

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Raven said:
If you can't understand how stopping people getting to work/hospital/going about their lives is not going to get them to support you, then it's a waste of effort :)
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I've made the point that they don't need to be supported. They need visibility. And they're getting it.

If the end results is fighting in the streets (it will be) then the government ends up being forced to act. Which they are.

Both of these outcomes are better than being ignored. And un-ignorable but zero support is better than ignored.


On the government forcing to act - it can choose to act in one of two ways:

1) Insulate the houses
2) Opportunistically clamp down on our rights.

Governments always choose 2) rather than taking <insert sensible action here>

This is the pathway to wider social unrest. This is what is being achieved by these people - governments refuse to act = increase in social unrest.

This is how it ever was.
 
Scouse

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Embattle said:
news.sky.com

Conservative MP Sir David Amess stabbed multiple times in incident at constituency surgery

Sir David Amess, who represents Southend West in Essex, was attacked on Friday at Belfairs Methodist Church in Leigh-on-Sea. Sky News understands a man walked into his constituency surgery and stabbed him multiple times.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
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Horrid, but:

This is the pathway to wider social unrest
Click to expand...

2008 crash, austerity, brexit + covid. People are hurting. Crazies are going to be more and more of a thing - and crazies are scattergun (could just have easily been a labour MP because we all know it's Labour's fault).

Tories are in charge, people have seen severe decline in living standards, our life expectancy was going backwards before covid.

So horrid. Someone is going to say "this can never be justified", but given this background there's a risk this could happen more and more.



Of course. Maybe it's because the MP was biffing his wife (or fiddling with his kid, I mean, Tory) :)
 
Last edited:
Aoami

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Scouse said:
Horrid, but:



2008 crash, austerity, brexit + covid. People are hurting. Crazies are going to be more and more of a thing - and crazies are scattergun (could just have easily been a labour MP because we all know it's Labour's fault).

Tories are in charge, people have seen severe decline in living standards, our life expectancy was going backwards before covid.

So horrid. Someone is going to say "this can never be justified", but given this background there's a risk this could happen more and more.



Of course. Maybe it's because the MP was biffing his wife (or fiddling with his kid, I mean, Tory) :)
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How was Jo Cox justified then?
 
Gwadien

Gwadien

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Wij said:
Ah ok. So not a tragic, disturbed loner with mental issues then :)
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I wouldn't say mental issues, unless you define brainwashing as a mental illness.

But that's all the case, whether it's the IRA, ISIS, the 'Extreme Right' it's always a case of brainwashing.

It's like that London bridge attack, that's not terrorism either, if you're acting alone, I don't think you can define it as terrorism, or perhaps the depth of planning defines whether it's terrorism or not, Anders Breivik for example.

I just don't understand why we need to define it as terrorism, because it gives the groups who claim it more credibility in the eyes of potential recruits and it causes public hysteria to dem terrorist Muslims.
 
Scouse

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Gwadien said:
But that's all the case, whether it's the IRA, ISIS, the 'Extreme Right' it's always a case of brainwashing.
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Not really.

Can simply be "I have a very different point of view than you and I'm willing to kill people in an attempt to bring about change".
 
Wij

Wij

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Not sure which thread to put this in. Could be a few:

www.nbcnews.com

FBI agents swarm Washington home of Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska

Deripaska was among two dozen Russian oligarchs and officials who were sanctioned by the Treasury Department in April 2018.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

Deripaska is George Osborne’s boss. Has links to politicians on both sides of the Atlantic. Mandelson. Lots of folks on Trump’s 2016 campaign.

Absolutely he has always been an influencer for Putin with state privileges and backing and dirty money coming out of his cock end.
 
Embattle

Embattle

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As it stands I've little intention in voting for the Tories in the next GE and probably local as well.
 
Raven

Raven

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It's a weird one for me, as I know several Tory councillors through being on the Parish Council, and they are actually pretty useful at getting things done in the local area and genuinely nice people. At government level, they are absolutely pathetic though, I don't even think Leadsom knows where her office is, and I certainly won't be voting for the evil bitch. Even my mum, a lifetime Tory has changed her mind.

Who else do people vote for though? I think what will happen again is that people just don't bother voting at all, which suits the Tories just fine.
 
Scouse

Scouse

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Vote green.

You know they won't actually get into power but a big surge would show politicians that there is actual political advantage in real green policy.
 
Raven

Raven

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That's all very well, but people won't.

I usually vote for them but voted Labour at the last election because I felt getting the Tories out at all costs was more important.

Most people aren't engaged in politics except for whats on the TV.
 
DaGaffer

DaGaffer

Down With That Sorta Thing
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Raven said:
That's all very well, but people won't.

I usually vote for them but voted Labour at the last election because I felt getting the Tories out at all costs was more important.

Most people aren't engaged in politics except for whats on the TV.
Click to expand...

Vote anybody but Tory. In FPTP system you almost certainly won't stop them getting in again, but a radically reduced majority, and ideally a minority government, will at least help hold them to account. At the moment they're acting like they're untouchable and using that to push through really dangerous stuff. Their contempt for the electorate is palpable.
 
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