Politics Election 2019

[Scouse]

I don't necessarily agree though. You only replace the management structure if there is an attractive, or least viable, alternative. At the moment, that is not Labour. This is coming from a life-long Labour voter and former party member by the way.

If someone was driving erratically, despite protest, then crashed the car, would you let them drive the replacement?

The Tories have, quite literally, crashed the car. People are dead. We've been effectively been in a social prison for way longer than necessary. And, just in case you missed it, THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ARE DEAD.


Oh. But you don't feel "confident" in Labour's ability to drive? Who cares! The driver we've got is proven to be a fucking blind alcoholic. And he needs punishing for mounting the pavement and wiping out your granny.

Instead, we've just rewarded him and handed him another beer.

 

[Aoami]

If someone was driving erratically, despite protest, then crashed the car, would you let them drive the replacement?

The Tories have, quite literally, crashed the car. People are dead. We've been effectively been in a social prison for way longer than necessary. And, just in case you missed it, THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ARE DEAD.


Oh. But you don't feel "confident" in Labour's ability to drive? Who cares! The driver we've got is proven to be a fucking blind alcoholic. And he needs punishing for mounting the pavement and wiping out your granny.

Instead, we've just rewarded him and handed him another beer.

This argument is completely meaningless though if the alternative is also a blind alcoholic with no legs.

I completely understand your point by the way, but to say we should just give Labour a chance because "they can't be worse than the Tories"... this to me is not a good argument, because they easily could be worse than the Tories in this current iteration.

 

[Raven]

@Aoami - continual Tory shitshow mismanagement, flying in the face of longstanding scientific advice, has placed an island nation right near the very top of the death toll polls.

Pick almost any other government on the planet and they've done better. This is because different people make different decisions. And given we've evidence that the Tories have continually made the worst decisions - a change of management is what is needed.


At work, if your programme is consistently not performing (deaths) then you replace the management structure. How to make things work 1-0-1.

The Tories aren't performing. Yet we suck their dicks and point at people who haven't been given a chance to prove that they can do better.

Tory performance has been flattered by an exceptional NHS and the only reason we got so far ahead on the vaccine was by spending obscene amounts of money throwing as much as possible at as many developments as possible, which is why we are coming out of a complete Tory mess relatively early. As they say, you're only as good as your last game, our last game was the vaccination program.

People are positive at the moment, and we have a lot to look forward to, little of that is thanks to the Tories though, the NHS machine (that the Tories want to dismantle) is the entity to thank.

 

[Scouse]

This argument is completely meaningless though if the alternative is also a blind alcoholic with no legs.

We've no evidence of that. Last time they were in power was pre-Cameron. We've had a string of duds since that pig-fucker was in charge.

I completely understand your point by the way, but to say we should just give Labour a chance because "they can't be worse than the Tories"... this to me is not a good argument, because they easily could be worse than the Tories in this current iteration.

We have very strong evidence - i.e. we're top of the "we've managed to kill a shit load of people (despite: island)" league table.

If you pick a government, at random, you're probably going to do better.

The idea that any government (the greens?, bucket-head?) is likely to be worse than one of the proven worst-performing governments on the planet is absolutely ridiculous. It's a faith-based belief-based "reasoning". It discounts the carnage of a decade of worsening living standards, a year of social imprisonment and, oh yes, a fuckton of unnecessary death.

 

[Raven]

Also, we are only an island geographically, we still have a huge amount of vehicles going in and out that if stopped would cripple half the country.

It was the morons going on their holibobs that did it. *and allowed to by the Tories.

 

[Embattle]

@Aoami - continual Tory shitshow mismanagement, flying in the face of longstanding scientific advice, has placed an island nation right near the very top of the death toll polls.

Pick almost any other government on the planet and they've done better. This is because different people make different decisions. And given we've evidence that the Tories have continually made the worst decisions - a change of management is what is needed.


At work, if your programme is consistently not performing (deaths) then you replace the management structure. How to make things work 1-0-1.

The Tories aren't performing. Yet we suck their dicks and point at people who haven't been given a chance to prove that they can do better.

Look simpleton without a credible alternative not enough people are going to switch...it isn't blaming and it isn't hard to understand it is just a fact.

 

[Aoami]

We've no evidence of that. Last time they were in power was pre-Cameron. We've had a string of duds since that pig-fucker was in charge.

Yes but the point is that there is no evidence to show that they're not either...

 

[Scouse]

Yes but the point is that there is no evidence to show that they're not either...

This is a logical fallacy.

You can't have evidence of something that hasn't happened / doesn't exist. So you literally can't have any evidence that they'd do a bad job, until we put them in and watch them do a bad job.

So the point stands - the tories have measurably done one of the worst jobs on the planet. And we've rewarded, not punished, them for it.

 

[Aoami]

This is a logical fallacy.

You can't have evidence of something that hasn't happened / doesn't exist. So you literally can't have any evidence that they'd do a bad job, until we put them in and watch them do a bad job.

So the point stands - the tories have measurably done one of the worst jobs on the planet. And we've rewarded, not punished, them for it.

It's not a logical fallacy. At all. For instance, If there was evidence Starmer could lead his own party, that would be evidence enough for some people that he could lead the country. But there isn't.

 

[Scouse]

It's not a logical fallacy. At all. For instance, If there was evidence Starmer could lead his own party, that would be evidence enough for some people that he could lead the country. But there isn't.

He's leading his party? Factional infighting is a feature of labour - their problem is that they don't present this as a strength, rather than a weakness. It's because it's a much more democratic party than the tory party - which has just as much infighting (some would say more so) but at least they present a relatively united front.

There's a difference between keeping a lid on a box of cats, and presiding over huge amounts of actual death. So your argument is one of false equivalence there.

Again, the facts on the ground are that the tories have been measured, and they're shit. Resulting in deaths. And Labour haven't. It's just supposition.

Where's the punishment for killing so many of us?

 

[Wij]

He's leading his party? Factional infighting is a feature of labour - their problem is that they don't present this as a strength, rather than a weakness. It's because it's a much more democratic party than the tory party - which has just as much infighting (some would say more so) but at least they present a relatively united front.

There's a difference between keeping a lid on a box of cats, and presiding over huge amounts of actual death. So your argument is one of false equivalence there.

Again, the facts on the ground are that the tories have been measured, and they're shit. Resulting in deaths. And Labour haven't. It's just supposition.

Where's the punishment for killing so many of us?

There isn't because there are no front pages of newspapers every day saying "WORST DEATH TOLL IN THE WORLD" and "DEATH SCANDAL CONTINUES".

 

[Scouse]

There isn't because there are no front pages of newspapers every day saying "WORST DEATH TOLL IN THE WORLD" and "DEATH SCANDAL CONTINUES".

I agree. But shame on the British public (and people in this forum) for needing newspaper headlines to know that there's a massive death scandal, and to know that we're one of the worst performing countries in the world.

Shame on us.

 

[Aoami]

He's leading his party? Factional infighting is a feature of labour - their problem is that they don't present this as a strength, rather than a weakness. It's because it's a much more democratic party than the tory party - which has just as much infighting (some would say more so) but at least they present a relatively united front.

There's a difference between keeping a lid on a box of cats, and presiding over huge amounts of actual death. So your argument is one of false equivalence there.

Again, the facts on the ground are that the tories have been measured, and they're shit. Resulting in deaths. And Labour haven't. It's just supposition.

Where's the punishment for killing so many of us?

We can argue the toss all you like, but the question is "What have Labour done over the last couple of years to show that they are electable". If the answer is just "Not be the Tories" then that clearly is not enough.

 

[Scouse]

We can argue the toss all you like, but the question is "What have Labour done over the last couple of years to show that they are electable". If the answer is just "Not be the Tories" then that clearly is not enough.

Have you had a brain fart? It's nothing to do with Labour. When you've got a tory government that is so criminally bad literally anyone else is preferable. Anyone.

We've a murderously bad government in charge that we KNOW has killed over a hundred thousand people, needlessly. And you want Labour to "be a bit more electable" before you chuck the murderers out?

What is wrong with you?

 

[Embattle]

Scouse almost perfectly represents another problem Labour have with getting votes from the wider population, they have a tendency to talk down, judge and criticise people who do vote Tory.

 

[Aoami]

Have you had a brain fart? It's nothing to do with Labour. When you've got a tory government that is so criminally bad literally anyone else is preferable. Anyone.

We've a murderously bad government in charge that we KNOW has killed over a hundred thousand people, needlessly. And you want Labour to "be a bit more electable" before you chuck the murderers out?

What is wrong with you?

Why do you talk like this to people? I am a Labour voter, I'm just not so fucking dense that I think my feelings represent the view of the majority.

 

[Scouse]

Scouse almost perfectly represents another problem Labour have with getting votes from the wider population, they have a tendency to talk down, judge and criticise people who do vote Tory.

No. I criticise what I see as idiocy.

The fact that Tory voters are in my sights is simply because they've turned a blind eye to huges amounts of unnecessary death in the last election when they should have been kicking the culpable party. Other people/parties have been roundly condemned in just as strong a term previously.


Your sentiment above is nothing more than self-justification. It's the same shit that people pulled when they didn't want to hear the shit around brexit. "Oh you're calling me thick", therefore I won't even consider the other point of view.

They weren't going to consider it anyway. Calling them what they are didn't make a difference.

 

[Aoami]

@Scouse can I ask if you're a member of your local Labour party?

 

[Scouse]

Why do you talk like this to people?

Because, right now, the tories were effectively congratulated for their handling of hte past year. After presiding over one of the worst periods of excess death on the planet. We lost humans in the UK at a faster rate than during World War Two.

Nazi Germany was less effective at killing us than the Tory party. And I can't for the life of me understand anyone who isn't utterly incensed by that, never mind people who actually voted them back in with a pat on the back.


Yes. Labour are a shitshow. They pretty much always have been. But how bad do the Tories have to get? I mean honestly?!

I completely lack any comprehension of how a rational human being can look at Labour, or the Greens, or Binface and, right now, go "nope - they're not electable" - when you look at what we've got across table in the blue corner.


I'm absolutely staggered. I think it's a form of collective madness.


So I talk to people like this - asking you directly what is wrong with you - because I genuinely think something is wrong.

I wouldn't mind if the Tories got back in to power but with a strong admonishment - a strong signal that they've made serious errors. But the british public haven't even done that. They've patted them on the back.

So yeah. That's why @Aoami. I'm utterly stumped and want a better reason than "labour don't look electable" - because frankly, compared to the other, that's not even a reason.

 

[Scouse]

@Scouse can I ask if you're a member of your local Labour party?

No. I know you are. I think Labour are pretty awful tbh. There's not a single party that even remotely comes close to getting things right.

But there's definitely a party that got a shitload wrong, to massive cost, recently...

 

[Aoami]

No. I know you are. I think Labour are pretty awful tbh. There's not a single party that even remotely comes close to getting things right.

But there's definitely a party that got a shitload wrong, to massive cost, recently...

I'm not a member anymore, I left because the party is absolutely rotten to it's core.

 

[Aoami]

View: https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1392053551237636097?s=20

 

[Raven]

It's a bit of a poisoned chalice atm, the problems aren't all his. The party is clearly broken down the middle, nutters (the momentum mob) and the middle.

 

[Aoami]

Don't necessarily disagree, but he should be doing something. Oh, unless it's saying he takes full responsibility for election results, then removing the highly popular campaign coordinator from her position.

 

[Scouse]

Don't necessarily disagree, but he should be doing something. Oh, unless it's saying he takes full responsibility for election results, then removing the highly popular campaign coordinator from her position.

1) That happened after the elections
2) At least he didn't kill over a hundred thousand people

And yet we're talking about Labour, not the Tories.

 

[Aoami]

MP writes letter to BBC complaining about Boris Johnson getting away with fake news

"These are not matters of interpretation of debate, they are not exaggerations or spin, they are barefaced lies."

www.thelondoneconomic.com

 

[Scouse]

MP writes letter to BBC complaining about Boris Johnson getting away with fake news

"These are not matters of interpretation of debate, they are not exaggerations or spin, they are barefaced lies."

www.thelondoneconomic.com

Add it to the list of why we should vote Tory rather than captain buckethead (or whatever he's called ). For shits and giggles?

 

[Raven]

Nobody is saying vote Tory tho.

 

[Aoami]

Add it to the list of why we should vote Tory rather than captain buckethead (or whatever he's called ). For shits and giggles?

Just FYI I voted Binface for London Mayor, have never voted Tory in my life, and will never vote Tory in my life.

 

[Scouse]

Just FYI I voted Binface for London Mayor, have never voted Tory in my life, and will never vote Tory in my life.

It's a shame the rest of the country didn't tbh. It would send a message loud and clear -that they're a bunch of fucking clowns.

But then, I don't think they give a shit anyway.



Man. I need to cheer the fuck up today.