Politics Election 2019

[Shagrat]

So planetary doom is inevitable and we should just accept it?

This is one of the explanations for Fermi's Paradox. The reason we haven't detected life out there is because of some event/series of events that all burgeoning civilisations go through that filters (which is why its called the Great Filter) out the number of civilisations passing that point. Extinction Events, the Nuclear Age, Global Warming, Overpopulation, something we haven't even encountered yet.

The big question is are we one of the first, the first, to pass this great filter, or haven't we hit it yet. Obviously if we havent hit it yet, at some point in the near/far future, we're fucked.....

 

[Scouse]

The big question is are we one of the first, the first, to pass this great filter, or haven't we hit it yet. Obviously if we havent hit it yet, at some point in the near/far future, we're fucked.....

Lets face it -most things are average - so chances are we're an average civilisation hatched at an average time - so it's the height of hubris to think we're the one of the first, or even special in some way.

So knowing this - we need to take actions that potentially keep us going - like being spacefaring (which we nearly did in the 60s and 70s - and are massively regressing from because: economics (and the models we have chosen)) and not fucking the environment.

Vote green.

 

[Scouse]

And second time today! Back on the front pages of the grauniad.

It's been very very quiet since me and @Wij were disagreeing about it a while back. But I've been keeping tabs - wondering if, when an election comes around, there'd be renewed focus on this.

Hey ho...

 

[dysfunction]

Absolutely it will.

Apart from the reduction in climate emissions (which affect the world, therefore: Japan) a market like Britain banning neonicotinoids (and moving to a sustainable ecological farming model) would have global ramifications - making it easier for other countries to justify the switch.

Pesticides are a (poor) choice.

But carry on humans. Carry on to your idiot doom.

Further restrictions on neonicotinoids agreed
We've kind of done that already and yet...

 

[Job]

The chances if us hearing alien messages by listening with small dishes is next to zero.
The strength of the transmitting signal would have to be billions of watts and specifically aimed at us and at the same time in billion year timescales plus using the same transmitting method backed by an intelligence that even comprehends the notion of why you would do it.

 

[Scouse]

Further restrictions on neonicotinoids agreed
We've kind of done that already and yet...

They don't need restricting.

 

[DaGaffer]

Anything is possible.
They could also be 500 trillion light years away.

Ot they are beaming their signals in the wrong direction. Or the signals are being disrupted somehow and will never reach us.

Just because we cant hear them doesn't mean they have killed their planet.

This is all covered under Fermi's Paradox; even with all the "but they could..." stuff, it only takes one star faring civilisation in the last 13 billion years to colonize this entire galaxy at a minimum; even if they weren't around any more we should see evidence of them (wholesale stellar engineering). We don't, hence, "paradox".

I do actually agree that we probably simply dont recognize what we're looking at rather than @Scouse's doom-mongering, and who knows? Maybe all those planets have an ecological catastrophe, "go green" (values for chlorophyll may vary) and batten down the hatches, micromanage their population growth and resource use as the solution, right up to the point they realise you cant skin the same cat forever and die out anyway. Or their sun goes nova.

NB. I do actually believe climate change is much more important than Brexit, I just dont believe in any of the Greens solutions and find their whole philosophy depressing and self-hating. Fuck those guys.

 

[Scouse]

I do actually believe climate change is much more important than Brexit, I just dont believe in any of the Greens solutions and find their whole philosophy depressing and self-hating. Fuck those guys.

Not just climate change, but the whole impact of our economic and warped value systems.

The solutions the have are absolutely fair game for debate - but it's really only the greens that are pushing green solutions - everyone else is just window-dressing for more votes (and aren't doubling down on actually trying to find answers to very very serious problems). That's why I say vote green - they'll never get in - but a sizeable chunk of vote for them would really mean action could no longer not be taken. And like you say - those issues are the most important issues.

I don't agree with self-hating though. Not for a second.

 

[DaGaffer]

Not just climate change, but the whole impact of our economic and warped value systems.

The solutions the have are absolutely fair game for debate - but it's really only the greens that are pushing green solutions - everyone else is just window-dressing for more votes (and aren't doubling down on actually trying to find answers to very very serious problems). That's why I say vote green - they'll never get in - but a sizeable chunk of vote for them would really mean action could no longer not be taken. And like you say - those issues are the most important issues.

I don't agree with self-hating though. Not for a second.

Google “green misanthropy” and you’ll find thousands of examples; green philosophy is predicated on “humans are bad” and it always has been.

 

[Bodhi]

I think you are all overthinking things. The most likely reason we haven't been contacted yet is Einsein's Theory of Relativity, and the inability of anything to travel faster than the speed of light.

Science, innit.

 

[Scouse]

Fail.

 

[Bodhi]

Nope, we spent a couple of tutorials at University on this. Considering my tutor was part of the group that discovered the first planet outside our Galaxy, I'm willing to take his word on this one.

 

[DaGaffer]

I think you are all overthinking things. The most likely reason we haven't been contacted yet is Einsein's Theory of Relativity, and the inability of anything to travel faster than the speed of light.

Science, innit.

You don’t need FTL to create the conditions for Fermi’s Paradox, it actually assumes FTL is impossible

 

[Bodhi]

You don’t need FTL to create the conditions for Fermi’s Paradox, it actually assumes FTL is impossible

It does. Not entirely sure how that disagrees with the point that the main reason we haven't been contacted, is how long it takes to get here.

 

[Wij]

Inhibitors probably.

 

[DaGaffer]

Nope, we spent a couple of tutorials at University on this. Considering my tutor was part of the group that discovered the first planet outside our Galaxy, I'm willing to take his word on this one.

Outside our galaxy? So you went to the University of Oklahoma? Last year? Good to know.

The argument in Fermi’s Paradox isn’t “why haven’t we been contacted?”, it’s “why can’t we see any evidence?”. It’s perfectly reasonable to assume any intelligent life existing right now is too far away for communication, but that isn’t the basis for the paradox.

 

[Scouse]

Nope, we spent a couple of tutorials at University on this. Considering my tutor was part of the group that discovered the first planet outside our Galaxy, I'm willing to take his word on this one.

There's a difference between meet and detect the existence of.

 

[Bodhi]

There's a difference between meet and detect the existence of.

Not really, as both are controlled by the same laws of physics. Unless the aliens have a better understanding of quantum physics than we do, and have figured out how to send signals faster than the speed of light. In which case, we'd have no way of detecting them.

Either way it all comes down to the same reason. Space is big. Really big.

 

[Scouse]

Not really, as both are controlled by the same laws of physics. Unless the aliens have a better understanding of quantum physics than we do, and have figured out how to send signals faster than the speed of light. In which case, we'd have no way of detecting them.

Either way it all comes down to the same reason. Space is big. Really big.

I want to say something ascerbic and derogatory* here about you not being able to grasp the problem, but what I'll do is post the reasons for your misunderstanding later on - simply because it's more interesting than most of the topics that have been on here recently

*but you fail

 

[Bodhi]

Outside our galaxy? So you went to the University of Oklahoma? Last year? Good to know.

The argument in Fermi’s Paradox isn’t “why haven’t we been contacted?”, it’s “why can’t we see any evidence?”. It’s perfectly reasonable to assume any intelligent life existing right now is too far away for communication, but that isn’t the basis for the paradox.

Post in haste, repent in leisure - I of course meant outside the Solar System.

Neither of which observation makes interstellar communication / travel any more achievable based on current understanding.

 

[Scouse]

interstellar communication / travel

Neither of these things are required for detection of life elsewhere in the universe.

You've nit grasped it.

 

[Job]

Well the first question would have to be are you alive or just a pre recorded message.

Which leads on to a bazillion other complications.

Less than 100 years ago we would never have heard it and in another 100 years we might not be listening.
A 200 yr window in a ten billion year timescale in a range of trying to get to India and only being at your garden gate.

 

[caLLous]

You do talk some nonsense.

 

[Gwadien]

I for one, am glad that we're debating space travel (and possibly political parties views of it!?) rather than the fucking B word.

 

[Embattle]

I for one, am glad that we're debating space travel (and possibly political parties views of it!?) rather than the fucking B word.

Wij plays the B word quite well.

 

[Job]

You do talk some nonsense.

You dont seem to understand the Gakaxy and time.

 

[Job]

Boris has bottled it...tax cuts and complete rejection of brexit voters.


This election is his to lose now.

 

[Gwadien]

Boris has bottled it...tax cuts and complete rejection of brexit voters.


This election is his to lose now.

Wait, are you suggesting Boris doesn't actually give a shit about Brexit and only actually cares about his rich mates?

Omg, what a rocky docky shocker!!

 

[Job]

Well of course he doesnt..another remainer wearing the cap.

Its not about Boris, its about those who use their position to overide the people.
Last time I looked that was quite simply the absolute abuse of power.

 

[dysfunction]

Well of course he doesnt..another remainer wearing the cap.

Its not about Boris, its about those who use their position to overide the people.
Last time I looked that was quite simply the absolute abuse of power.

He was your best mate while he beat the Brexit drum. You were blinded by it and failed to see who he really is.