Politics Election 2019

[Job]

Just playing the liberal tech media at their own game.

 

[Embattle]

It still isn't needed.

 

[BloodOmen]

Accurate

 

[Job]

Labout manifesto.

Fuck the rich.


Where have they gone?

 

[Scouse]

Vote green to turn the lights off at night.

The most familiar impact of light pollution is moths flapping around a bulb, mistaking it for the moon. One-third of insects trapped in the orbit of such lights die before morning

 

[Gwadien]

Turn the lights off at night is such an oxymoron haha

 

[Scouse]

Turn the lights off at night is such an oxymoron haha

Most people are home by midnight. Why not do it then?

 

[dysfunction]

I think it relates more to companies that leave the entire building lit up like a Christmas tree

 

[Job]

Turn off the street lights to save insects.....nope.

What utter boloks, its multi trillion death for insects everyday.
Only a tiny percentage is caused by lights.

 

[Gumbo]

Why do you need streetlights? I've lived 42 of my 44 years in places without them and never missed them at all.

 

[Gwadien]

Why do you need streetlights? I've lived 42 of my 44 years in places without them and never missed them at all.

Rural boy?

 

[Wij]

Rural boy?

Cave dweller.

 

[dysfunction]

Also I've not seen many moths around street lights for years.

Yes this due to global warming/man demolishing the world but....

Turning street lights off isn't the solution.

I've also not seen bugs smashing against my windscreen for years either.

Deal with the root cause not the ancillary causes

 

[Scouse]

Also I've not seen many moths around street lights for years.

I've also not seen bugs smashing against my windscreen for years either.

1) They're all dead.
2) They're all dead...

Aside from the root causes of habitat loss and pesticide use (which we've resolutely done fuck all about since Silent Spring was released in the 60's (and widely derided until it turned out to be fucking true)). Streetlighting has been a problem since it was invented - and for insects a very serious one.

Most of us are old enough to remember hundreds of moths around every lamp (I remember trying to count the number at the lighting of the foot of the Marquis of Anglesey when I was a kid and being totally unable, not just because of movememt but because of sheer volume) and short journeys in cars meaning your whole windscreen/front of car was caked in them. (Which they made a bee-line for because of lights).

So yeah, if we're going to do fuck all about pesticides and habitat loss then the least we can do is turn streetlighting off at midnight when most people are in bed anyway (and crime happens at 1:30pm when people are at work, so scaredy-cats can fuck off).

Fuck me why is brexit even a thing people talk about. We're so fucking dumb.

 

[dysfunction]

1) They're all dead.
2) They're all dead...

Aside from the root causes of habitat loss and pesticide use (which we've resolutely done fuck all about since Silent Spring was released in the 60's (and widely derided until it turned out to be fucking true)). Streetlighting has been a problem since it was invented - and for insects a very serious one.

Most of us are old enough to remember hundreds of moths around every lamp (I remember trying to count the number at the lighting of the foot of the Marquis of Anglesey when I was a kid and being totally unable, not just because of movememt but because of sheer volume) and short journeys in cars meaning your whole windscreen/front of car was caked in them. (Which they made a bee-line for because of lights).

So yeah, if we're going to do fuck all about pesticides and habitat loss then the least we can do is turn streetlighting off at midnight when most people are in bed anyway (and crime happens at 1:30pm when people are at work, so scaredy-cats can fuck off).

Fuck me why is brexit even a thing people talk about. We're so fucking dumb.

Yes it's a very sad state and yet nothing is done about it. We need to rebuild habitats not turn light ls off.

 

[Moriath]

Row over Labour group's use of famous Coca-Cola ad

Haha. How did they think they would get away with that.

 

[Embattle]

1) They're all dead.
2) They're all dead...

.....Jim.

 

[Scouse]

Yes it's a very sad state and yet nothing is done about it. We need to rebuild habitats not turn light ls off.

We need to do both @dysfunction.

Funny thing about turning the lights off at midnight - loads of user groups are after exactly that (not just insects, but power generation (emissions), human sleep patterns, the fact that people can't see the stars any more so humans are, for the first time, largely growing up not seeing the cosmos in all it's glory, etc..).

And the reason for not turning off street lighting at night? Nobody can really give a good reason other than it makes people "feel" uncomfortable.

 

[dysfunction]

We need to do both @dysfunction.

Funny thing about turning the lights off at midnight - loads of user groups are after exactly that (not just insects, but power generation (emissions), human sleep patterns, the fact that people can't see the stars any more so humans are, for the first time, largely growing up not seeing the cosmos in all it's glory, etc..).

And the reason for not turning off street lighting at night? Nobody can really give a good reason other than it makes people "feel" uncomfortable.

I agree but my point is that just turning lights off isn't going to have any impact whatsoever.
The number one priority is to rebuild the habitat that to increase the insect numbers and thenyes fine tackle the light issue.

the light issue is small in priority compared to habitat. In fact the light issue is probably very insignificant.

this is the main problem with humans is we tackle the insignificant first rather than the major causes

 

[Scouse]

I agree but my point is that just turning lights off isn't going to have any impact whatsoever.

the light issue is small in priority compared to habitat

That just what you feel, or do you have some evidence to doubt the call that the scientists are making?

Light pollution is a significant but overlooked driver of the rapid decline of insect populations, according to the most comprehensive review of the scientific evidence to date.

 

[dysfunction]

That just what you feel, or do you have some evidence to doubt the call that the scientists are making?

Yes only because the population is so small due to the lost habitat!
Rather than a quote do you have a link to that observation that light is more of a detriment than loss of habitat?

Yes its a a significant driver but maybe it wouldnt be if habitat was maintained?
Can you prove otherwise?

 

[dysfunction]

Habitat loss

Impact of habitat loss on species

Factors behind the decline include, perhaps foremost among them, habitat changes wrought by humans, such as deforestation, and conversion of natural habitats for agriculture. In Europe and North America, the decline of small family farms, known for open pastures, hedgerows, and other areas where “weedy” plants like wildflowers can grow—areas that are perfect for insects—has certainly played a part, Wagner adds, as has the draining of wetlands and swamps.

Why insect populations are plummeting—and why it matters

I see that National Geographic doesn't even mention light pollution...

Science direct claims major impact is habitat loss: (no mention of light pollution)
Worldwide decline of the entomofauna: A review of its drivers - ScienceDirect

Another site claiming habitat loss:
Insect decline could cause 'collapse' of nature - study

Only one article Ive seen mentions light and not even a proper study:

other unstudied factors such as light pollution might prove to be significant.

Plummeting insect numbers 'threaten collapse of nature'

Come on @Scouse I'm waiting for your evidence...

 

[dysfunction]

And another article saying light pollution "could be" an issue but its habitat that is the main cause due to numerous factors such as global warming etc:
Insect declines are a stark warning to humanity

 

[Scouse]

Don't get why you're being a dick about it. I'm repeating what the scientists have just** said and, additionally, have already addressed this:

light is more of a detriment than loss of habitat?

No. Read the post. We've done fuck all about habitat loss and insecticides since the 60's (remember I brought up silent spring??) - and we're going to do fuck all about it.

What we can do, really easily, as the scientists have said, is turn the fucking lights off. It's easy to do and signficant, says scientists.

And then we can continue to do feck all about habitat loss, as I've said, multiple times...



**Edit: And I mean just. You're quoting a review from Feb. (And nobody is disputing the habitat loss issue anyway.)

 

[dysfunction]

Don't get why you're being a dick about it. I'm repeating what the scientists have just** said and, additionally, have already addressed this:

No. Read the post. We've done fuck all about habitat loss and insecticides since the 60's (remember I brought up silent spring??) - and we're going to do fuck all about it.

What we can do, really easily, as the scientists have said, is turn the fucking lights off. It's easy to do and signficant, says scientists.

And then we can continue to do feck all about habitat loss, as I've said, multiple times...



**Edit: And I mean just. You're quoting a review from Feb. (And nobody is disputing the habitat loss issue anyway.)

No you were the one that was "being a dick about it"!
You made it out that light is more of an issue.
I said it wasn't and yet you persisted.

In fact you invited me to provide evidence and then dont like what you see

 

[Scouse]

You made it out that light is more of an issue.

No I didn't. Not only did I not, I explicitly said not, multiple times.

Go back and read it. In fact, I'll fucking paste it here:

Aside from the root causes of habitat loss and pesticide use

You pasted pointless off-topic waffle that I've never argued about.

 

[dysfunction]

No I didn't. Not only did I not, I explicitly said not, multiple times.

Go back and read it. In fact, I'll fucking paste it here:



You pasted pointless off-topic waffle that I've never argued about.

What was this then??

That just what you feel, or do you have some evidence to doubt the call that the scientists are making?
Light pollution is a significant but overlooked driver of the rapid decline of insect populations, according to the most comprehensive review of the scientific evidence to date.

 

[Scouse]

What was this then??

You are @Job-level failing at comprehension here. After saying "aside from the root causes" I quoted scientists saying "significant".

Go read a dictionary, look up the words "more" and "significant" ...

....bah, it's fucking clear as daylight what I'm saying (and what the scientists are saying) - and I'm in a bad mood anyway so I'm fucked if I'm going to turn this thread into a defence of the obvious just because you can't read.

 

[dysfunction]

You are @Job-level failing at comprehension here. After saying "aside from the root causes" I quoted scientists saying "significant".

Go read a dictionary, look up the words "more" and "significant" ...

....bah, it's fucking clear as daylight what I'm saying (and what the scientists are saying) - and I'm in a bad mood anyway so I'm fucked if I'm going to turn this thread into a defence of the obvious just because you can't read.

no you can't read. "root cause" is the major reason! You've even quoted it ffs.

 

[Embattle]

IRC they stopped cutting verges to save money but had the added benefit of helping wildlife.

Life on the Verge in Devon | Environment