Politics Election 2019

[Scouse]

Agree on that @DaGaffer - but you still have to consider the leave vote.

Which is why I think Labour's proposal is exceedingly sensible and pragmatic.

Lib Dems are full remain - fuck all leavers.

Torys are leave - fuck all remainers.

Labour are - we have leave & remain - we're officially negotiate and leave, but we'll give you final say, including remain.

Guess who people aren't going to vote for? The answer is staring the country right in the face....

 

[Gwadien]

Agree on that @DaGaffer - but you still have to consider the leave vote.

Which is why I think Labour's proposal is exceedingly sensible and pragmatic.

Lib Dems are full remain - fuck all leavers.

Torys are leave - fuck all remainers.

Labour are - we have leave & remain - we're officially negotiate and leave, but we'll give you final say, including remain.

Guess who people aren't going to vote for? The answer is staring the country right in the face....

Yeah but Corbyn talks to Terrorists.

 

[Scouse]

Yeah but Corbyn talks to Terrorists.

And is an antisemite.

 

[caLLous]

It'd be just grand if @Embattle could put on his big boy pants and back up some of these negative ratings with actual words. No "going round in circles" or "said it all before" wank, the fact that it's not clear what you're disagreeing with calls for an explanation.

 

[Gwadien]

But he 'agrees' with my completely sarcastic comments.

Its because he's an indoctrinated drone and can't actually shape any of his own views.

 

[Yoni]

I’m going to vote tactically for the Labour candidate because my seat is a Labour/Tory marginal where Greens and Lib Dems get single digits.

Would you do the same if your seat was a LibDem/Tory one?

I’m considering it

 

[Embattle]

It'd be just grand if @Embattle could put on his big boy pants and back up some of these negative ratings with actual words. No "going round in circles" or "said it all before" wank, the fact that it's not clear what you're disagreeing with calls for an explanation.

Well then there is no point in saying anything, every time you remoaners turn to brexit you say the same old false crap, long will it continue.....like my ratings.

 

[Scouse]

You never set out your position with supporting explanation and on the rare occasions you bother you make statements that you're not prepared to defend - so what do you expect?

 

[Gumbo]

It's cos he can't find a BBC article which contains anything resembling a Brexit upside.

Ah, those were the days.

 

[Wij]

It's cos he can't find a BBC article which contains anything resembling a Brexit upside.

Ah, those were the days.

What are the upsides again?

 

[Gumbo]

What are the upsides again?

Actually I found one today, in my business which has been massively impacted by Brexit. I wrote about it on another forum that I'm on so will paste it below. To add that I've now worked unpaid since September and don't expect to get paid again until February at the earliest. This is so that my business stays afloat and my employees can continue to be paid.

--

Every year at this time we have to send a cheque to the Revenue for duty owed against the sale of Red Diesel used in Private Pleasure Craft.

It's an oddly ad hoc arrangement brought in when those Pesky Euros decreed that we had to charge duty on Red Diesel for this use back in 2008 having not had to charge it before, when this country was free and Great and stuff.

Well this year we sold 1,065 litres of Red Diesel, whereas last year we sold 1,440 litres!

This means that the cheque that I just wrote out for the duty is a whopping £105 lower!

A Brexit dividend if you will. I should just keep selling less and less of everything because of Brexit! My last Vat bill was some £3k lower too!

It's great discovering all this whilst I work for a monthly pay cheque of £0. Really makes it all seem worthwhile again!

 

[DaGaffer]

Well then there is no point in saying anything, every time you remoaners turn to brexit you say the same old false crap, long will it continue.....like my ratings.

What was false about the last post I made that you disagreed with? It was literally two links to published historic information.

 

[caLLous]

Number 10 abused its power by demanding cover-up of donors and friends of Boris in report on Russian influence

 

[Embattle]

Urg just saw my first party political broadcast.

 

[Ormorof]

What was false about the last post I made that you disagreed with? It was literally two links to published historic information.

Its false because it disagrees with The Great Truth that is that brexit will be hunky dory and if you disagree you are a remoaner who should shut up and not keep banging on about it, just like people did in the 70s

 

[Scouse]

Vote Tory!

 

[Job]

The reality is we will be knee deep in super insects in five years time

 

[Scouse]

You'd have thought so but the consistent and rapidly accelerating collapse of entire life-critical ecosystems since the 1960's tells another story.

 

[Embattle]

Got to love how Andrew Neil beats up the representatives of the various parties, tonight it was Labour and then the SNP.

 

[Embattle]

These election promises are getting even more silly Labour pledges free broadband for all

 

[Ormorof]

These election promises are getting even more silly Labour pledges free broadband for all

Not that silly, access to Internet has been required in Finland for years (think i can get 10mb internet free but pay €10 for 200mb instead ), its required to participate in modern society these days so as a human right it must be available

 

[DaGaffer]

Not that silly, access to Internet has been required in Finland for years (think i can get 10mb internet free but pay €10 for 200mb instead ), its required to participate in modern society these days so as a human right it must be available

Nah, its fucking stupid. Nationalising BT is purely an ideological choice and makes zero economic sense; the telecoms sector in the UK is actually pretty competitive and there's a lot of customer choice. You could nationalise the infrastructure but it would be a money pit for a state-owned industry, especially if you're going to forego about £3bn a year in revenue (opportunity cost of free bb for every household.)

If this is the quality of though coming out of Labour, they're going to get annihilated at the polls.

 

[Job]

Quite a coincidence that BT has just rolled out a massive multi billion fibre to every house program and it would be stuck with the bill while Labour creams the Karma.

They did our pole last week, about 10 fibre connect boxes at the top, my mates connected and gets 400mb at best, the fibre actually goes to the house, so the dropwires are fibre optic as well.

 

[Scouse]

There is an argument that you treat broadband like water (which should 100% be renationalised) - because private broadband rollout is patchy as fuck and generally poor quality/coverage/speed.

I'm on the fence with that one - but utilities should be national.

 

[Wij]

There is an argument that you treat broadband like water (which should 100% be renationalised) - because private broadband rollout is patchy as fuck and generally poor quality/coverage/speed.

I'm on the fence with that one - but utilities should be national.

pr0n > water

 

[DaGaffer]

There is an argument that you treat broadband like water (which should 100% be renationalised) - because private broadband rollout is patchy as fuck and generally poor quality/coverage/speed.

I'm on the fence with that one - but utilities should be national.

Telecoms isn’t a natural monopoly; you can deliver the capability multiple ways. You can deal with patchy coverage through regulation, you don’t need to own the means of production, just oversee it properly. BT also makes about 20% of its revenue outside the UK, which is all at risk if you nationalise.

TBH, while my instincts are that certain natural monopolies should be re-nationalised, its by no means as obvious as it looks, as using regulation properly can achieve the same outcomes, and private companies can actually invest more effectively than the state (they can borrow from capital markets at lower rates than governments); we have a nationalised water industry in Ireland (we don’t even have water bills) and the whole thing is fucked basically.

 

[Wij]

Who's going to nationalise the pr0n then?

 

[Scouse]

we have a nationalised water industry in Ireland (we don’t even have water bills) and the whole thing is fucked basically.

So how much does it cost per household per year?

Also, out of interest (not expecting you to be able to answer) is it less environmentally damaging than the privately owned equivalent?

For example: Two adjacent forests in mid-wales. One owned by Natural Resources Wales, other by a private company. Private owner was complaining to me that NRW wouldn't sell them their forest - despite them not making a profit on it, but him making a profit on his.

Problem is - he's an egregious corner-cutter in pursuit of his profit. I was with an environmental manager and an ecologist on a MTB ride in his forest at the time and they were pointing out repeated violations of environmental legislation that would have costs to remediate - which would directly eat into his profit.

Other side of the forest? Following the rules (doggedly, jobsworthy) because little profit motive.

That's how I see utilities tbh. (Like 30-40% of all our water is wasted because private companies have refused point blank to repair their pipes whilst profits roll out to shareholders). If you legislated to fix this, bills go up (because shareholders want their pound of flesh regardless - and if it was a loss making company they'd wind it up - an important mechanism you can't use with utilities.)

That means shareholder profits are being distributed not through value creation - but through simple skimming off the top of necessities.

 

[Wij]

So how much does it cost per household per year?

Also, out of interest (not expecting you to be able to answer) is it less environmentally damaging than the privately owned equivalent?

For example: Two adjacent forests in mid-wales. One owned by Natural Resources Wales, other by a private company. Private owner was complaining to me that NRW wouldn't sell them their forest - despite them not making a profit on it, but him making a profit on his.

Problem is - he's an egregious corner-cutter in pursuit of his profit. I was with an environmental manager and an ecologist on a MTB ride in his forest at the time and they were pointing out repeated violations of environmental legislation that would have costs to remediate - which would directly eat into his profit.

Other side of the forest? Following the rules (doggedly, jobsworthy) because little profit motive.

That's how I see utilities tbh. (Like 30-40% of all our water is wasted because private companies have refused point blank to repair their pipes whilst profits roll out to shareholders). If you legislated to fix this, bills go up (because shareholders want their pound of flesh regardless - and if it was a loss making company they'd wind it up - an important mechanism you can't use with utilities.)

That means shareholder profits are being distributed not through value creation - but through simple skimming off the top of necessities.

Public companies aren't immune to this either just for different reasons. Also dividends make our pension funds grow.

On the other hand though, better regulation is still the key. If private companies are fucking the job up regulation is probably an easier fix than renationalising.

 

[Job]

5G is going to challenge fibre in the big cities, will be BT be a nationalised company competing with the private sector?

Thats not going to end well