Ding Dong, the Witch is dead...

[Tom]

BBC News - Gordon Brown 'stepping down as Labour leader'

TARRAA, WINKY!

 

[Embattle]

Funny how aged PMs look once they plan to leave.

 

[ECA]

Bog off nodrog! Good riddance.

 

[throdgrain]

To smooth a deal between Labour and the Lib Dems, god help us all

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Funny how aged PMs look once they plan to leave.

That's nothing compared to the Premiership.

 

[Tom]

To smooth a deal between Labour and the Lib Dems, god help us all

No, its great. Labour won't give them PR (it'll be delayed until after the next election). The coalition will break down, as they always do in this country, and the Tories will return in a year or two to mop up the mess.

People in this country won't stand for another unelected [sic] Prime Minster.

 

[Embattle]

No, its great. Labour won't give them PR (it'll be delayed until after the next election). The coalition will break down, as they always do in this country, and the Tories will return in a year or two to mop up the mess.

People in this country won't stand for another unelected [sic] Prime Minster.

Well you better hope the Tories improve then.

 

[rynnor]

To smooth a deal between Labour and the Lib Dems, god help us all

I welcome that tbh because it would need the SNP, Clyd Cymru et al to have a majority and that kind of unholy alliance could never stand.

It would be a Parliament with very little representation for England - could do a lot of damage to all involved.

 

[Chilly]

I welcome that tbh because it would need the SNP, Clyd Cymru et al to have a majority and that kind of unholy alliance could never stand.

It would be a Parliament with very little representation for England - could do a lot of damage to all involved.

yeah, only about 550 seats for poor little england.

 

[Embattle]

Those few remaining seats become worth more than nearly all the rest when in a coalition.

 

[Shagrat]

They seriously think that us rabble would accept government from what is essentially the 2 parties that were voted for least, in a deal brokered by people like Campbell, Mandelson and Lord Ashcroft, all of whom have been elected for no position they occupy.

It's shit, and would have no legitimacy whatsoever.

As my mum used to say, it will end in tears....

and the other thing that bloody annoys me is that if you look at where all the seats were won all of Labours were in Scotland. Why dont they just bugger off and govern up there instead..

rant over.....

 

[old.user4556]

Although they won seats here, there are plenty of us who don't want them in. Scotland's conservative time will come, but not for now.

Fat Alex needs to fuck off first, there is too much Mel Gibson loving going on. Strangely, he got next to fuck all support too.

 

[Ch3tan]

I don't like it, but it is good for the tories if Labour try and stay in government. It will not work, they are not going to go for PR either, and the Lib Dems will come off badly when it all falls down.

 

[Embattle]

I still think either way this goes will end badly, btw:

BREAKING NEWS: The Conservatives have offered the Lib Dems a referendum on electoral reform

 

[old.user4556]

zomg

 

[Ch3tan]

I still think either way this goes will end badly, btw:

1. 1918: Mr Hague says if the Lib Dems is to enter government with a Labour Party, this would not be secure, have another unelected prime minister and impose a voting reform without consulting the public. They would be making a "great mistake", he adds.
   
   

 

[Embattle]

Well that isn't exactly shocking.

 

[rynnor]

yeah, only about 550 seats for poor little england.

Nowhere near that and most of em are now Conservative so you'd be cobbling together an Anti-england alliance.

I think the Lib Dems are screwed whichever way they jump - its tough being the third party in a two party system

 

[yaruar]

Nowhere near that and most of em are now Conservative so you'd be cobbling together an Anti-england alliance.

I think the Lib Dems are screwed whichever way they jump - its tough being the third party in a two party system

Lib Dem's could never have gone with the Tories though, they are too ideologically opposed, more so than the Tories and Labour. Can't blame them for doing whatever they can to get in power and try to get a fairer voting system in place.

 

[ECA]

Ah sky news + alistair campbell.


YouTube - Campbell v Boulton arguing live on Sky News

 

[ECA]

Lib Dem's could never have gone with the Tories though, they are too ideologically opposed, more so than the Tories and Labour. Can't blame them for doing whatever they can to get in power and try to get a fairer voting system in place.

Whatever you're smoking can you pass it over please?

 

[rynnor]

Can't blame them for doing whatever they can to get in power and try to get a fairer voting system in place.

As in fairer to them eh

I think the Labour bit is just a gambit by the Lib Dems to pressure the Cons.

 

[Scouse]

Tories offering electoral reform is the correct thing to do.

Here's an example of first past the post (ripped shamelessly from New Scientist):

Suppose 15 people are asked to rank their liking for Milk (M), Beer (B), or Wine (W).

Six rank them M-W-B.
Five rank them B-W-M.
Four rank them W-B-M.

In a plurality system (like ours) where only first preferences count the outcome is simple: Milk wins with 40% of the vote, followed by Beer with Wine trailing last.

Result: M-B-W.

So. We all prefer milk, right?...

Wrong. Nine voters prefer Beer to Milk and nine voters prefer Wine to Milk - both clear majorities in favour of the alcoholic beverage. At the same time, ten people prefer Wine to Beer.

By pairing off all these preferences we can see the truly preferred order to be W-B-M.

Result: W-B-M

This is the exact opposite of what the voting system gives us.



Yes. PR is shit. But it's better than what we've got.

 

[yaruar]

As in fairer to them eh

No, fairer to the voting public, FPTP works when you have a 2 party system, it does however block the possibility of anyone else muscling in on that system. Lib Dems only got about 5% less of the vote than Labour but in reality got a mere fraction of the seats. Other systems are not perfect, but they do offer a better split of the actual vote.

 

[rynnor]

Lib Dems only got about 5% less of the vote than Labour but in reality got a mere fraction of the seats. Other systems are not perfect, but they do offer a better split of the actual vote.

Thats because they represent a protest votes for those fed up with the other 2 - I still fundamentally feel that I'd rather have the wrong strong government than the right weak coalition.

I bloody hope we get a referendum before they change the voting system - imposing one on us feels really wrong to me.

 

[Ch3tan]

Tories offering electoral reform is the correct thing to do.

Here's an example of first past the post (ripped shamelessly from New Scientist):

Suppose 15 people are asked to rank their liking for Milk (M), Beer (B), or Wine (W).

Six rank them M-W-B.
Five rank them B-W-M.
Four rank them W-B-M.

In a plurality system (like ours) where only first preferences count the outcome is simple: Milk wins with 40% of the vote, followed by Beer with Wine trailing last.

Result: M-B-W.

So. We all prefer milk, right?...

Wrong. Nine voters prefer Beer to Milk and nine voters prefer Wine to Milk - both clear majorities in favour of the alcoholic beverage. At the same time, ten people prefer Wine to Beer.

By pairing off all these preferences we can see the truly preferred order to be W-B-M.

Result: W-B-M

This is the exact opposite of what the voting system gives us.



Yes. PR is shit. But it's better than what we've got.

Is that the result you'd get under PR? What would you get under STV?

 

[MrHorus]

No, its great. Labour won't give them PR (it'll be delayed until after the next election). The coalition will break down, as they always do in this country, and the Tories will return in a year or two to mop up the mess.

There have been successful coalitions in Scotland and Wales.

I would say the track record is that they do work, rather than they do not...

People in this country won't stand for another unelected [sic] Prime Minster.

I'm sorry to break this to you, but EVERY Prime Minister we have ever had has been unelected.

Can you tell me when you last saw a ballot paper asking you to vote for a Prime Minister? No?

That's because we choose our MP to represent us in the Commons and the Queen will then invite someone - who will be able to command a majority - to form a government on her behalf. Presidential-style TV debates haven't helped the public appreciate this, but we have never had an elected Prime Minister.

Last week 15 million people voted for left-wing, progressive politics whilst only 10 million voted for the Conservatives. Like it or not a Lib-Lab coalition DOES have broad support amongst the public and it DOES have democratic legitimacy.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Yes. PR is shit. But it's better than what we've got.

Bold this and press it to any Tory toff spastic that doesn't get it.

 

[Wij]

There have been successful coalitions in Scotland and Wales.

I would say the track record is that they do work, rather than they do not...



I'm sorry to break this to you, but EVERY Prime Minister we have ever had has been unelected.

Can you tell me when you last saw a ballot paper asking you to vote for a Prime Minister? No?

That's because we choose our MP to represent us in the Commons and the Queen will then invite someone - who will be able to command a majority - to form a government on her behalf. Presidential-style TV debates haven't helped the public appreciate this, but we have never had an elected Prime Minister.

Last week 15 million people voted for left-wing, progressive politics whilst only 10 million voted for the Conservatives. Like it or not a Lib-Lab coalition DOES have broad support amongst the public and it DOES have democratic legitimacy.

Contradicted your self a tad there. Sure noone voted 'directly' for Gordon, David or Nick, they voted for their local Lab, Con or Lib candidate. But even more strongly noone voted for today's new buzzword 'progressive' politics. Show me where on the ballot paper it says "Any progressive party (whatever that means". Fucking nowhere is where it says it. Where in the election campaign did anyone say "We're Labour and while we would prefer you to vote for us you could also vote Lib Dem because we are both progressive and we'll feel entitled to lump our votes together after the election and claim that anyone who voted Lib Dem must also quite like Labour." Fucking nowhere because it's bullshit. It's just been made up to confuse people and claim some justification for Labour to attempt to suck Nick Clegg's cock.

Next person to mention progressive gets a really angry bum-rape off me.

 

[Wij]

Bold this and press it to any Tory toff spastic that doesn't get it.

The majority of Labour back-benchers don't want it either. Must be a toff thing then.