DECENT mmorpgs?

[Coim-]

Originally posted by --Random--
and, god.. uo pvp... feel so sorry for you because you've not experienced it. UO pvp is so much closer to reality than anything else. not in the way its conducted, i know magic isnt exactly realistic etc, but the way it goes on and the way it effects people. i mean, for instance if someone is PK'd by some guy, they might hold a grudge, this grudge could turn into a big grudge and into a war between guilds, more guilds might get involved and before you know it you have a proper full on turf war raging. you DONT get that in daoc, you'll never get the personal feeling of PVP. in UO you actually wanted the person dead, you really hated the enemy, its not like daoc where its just running over a group of 8 poor sods with your massive zerg army. UO pvp is arranged, tactful, clever, skillful.

its hard to explain with UO, there was simply so much depth it was almost better than life itself. i know it sounds increadibly sad, which it undoubtebly is, but still.. i've had more fun in UO than i have any other game in my life. UO relied on a social aspect of the game, as i said there is hatred between certain people, and bonds of friendship between others, all of this mixed into one huge game makes for some of the most in-depth and involving gaming anyone could ever imagine. unfortunatly UO is NOT like this anymore since EA took control, all the stuff im talking about is with the original UO.

Here's the rest of your post. I will now counter it in true BW style. I find it sad that people hold grudges on games tbh. It's like on the DAoC PvP server. You kill someone, and they start spewing out 'OMG I'M GETTING MY GUILD TO CHAIN YOU'. Pointless. I also fail to see how starting arguments with people in order to get a 'proper full on turf war' is 'arranged, tactful, clever, skillful'. If you've had so much fun in UO, go back to it. Sheesh, if it sucks now, just go back for the nostalgia or something. These are DAoC boards. Not UO boards. Not EQ boards. DAoC boards.

 

[--Random--]

Originally posted by old.Dillinja
I hated some people on Mordred down to the bone, this was because I would earn hundreds of gold every day killing greens in DF. It was mind-numbingly boring. Then, maybe the next day I would have a lot of it, if not more taken away by level 50's who would PK me over and over. If I had lost all of my items that I'd earned from being PKd once, I would've never played the game again. UO doesn't sound like much fun imo, unless you have explained it incorrectly it sounds like it is only fun for the PKers and not the PKd.

its perhaps more fun from the PKd perspective tbh. OK getting pk'd in the first place is an arse and not fun, specially when the PK kills your horse just to piss you off. but then, and this is where it differs from other games, you go back to your friends, round them together, make a plan of action, and go out and slaughter the bastard and nick everything he owns. or even the feeling of getting away from a PK... if they jump you, and somehow you manage to surivive and make it into town, its a huge adrenalin rush and a huge feeling of acheivement.

there are huge penalties with PKing aswell, like never being able to enter towns, not being able to be rezzed by NPCs, having any player being able to attack you at any time, having perma loss of skills and stats... its a truely difficult road to take, but a truely fun one aswell.

 

[Coim-]

Originally posted by --Random--
its a different type of skill, not something like playing football, thats physical skill, this is skill in the mind of knowing what to do when. daoc/eq have no skill true, uo has a hell of alot.

Tbh, if you played UO, then the level of skill it requires must be so low it's frightening. I can just imagine all the l33t CS type kiddies; every time they kill you "OMG YUO GOT PWNED! OMGLOLOL". Such fun.

 

[Alkoran]

DAoC is not about depth and storyline, it only goes as far as a setting:
It's a backdrop for the fight, that's why DAoC graphics are important, that's why they picked the three themed realms anybody who loves fanatasy will be able to chose the realm which suits the style of fantasy they most enjoy. This gives people the abstract feeling of the adventures and heros from books, films or games of their chosen setting.

What DAoC is really about is the system, it's about the fight, it's about tactics and character building. The state of PvP in Camelot is a work of art, it has flaws, but it is still art. Future PvP systems will all look at DAoC and take elements from it, because it is, simply put, "great." I doubt very much that UO has a balanced PvP system, because there are no seprate factions, it is far easier for people to simply match their character to the current strength so removing the necessity for the developer to balance aspects of the combat, if something is overpowered you just get it yourself.

 

[--Random--]

Originally posted by Coim-
Here's the rest of your post. I will now counter it in true BW style. I find it sad that people hold grudges on games tbh. It's like on the DAoC PvP server. You kill someone, and they start spewing out 'OMG I'M GETTING MY GUILD TO CHAIN YOU'. Pointless. I also fail to see how starting arguments with people in order to get a 'proper full on turf war' is 'arranged, tactful, clever, skillful'. If you've had so much fun in UO, go back to it. Sheesh, if it sucks now, just go back for the nostalgia or something. These are DAoC boards. Not UO boards. Not EQ boards. DAoC boards.

UO isnt the game it was, as i said, its totally different and tbh i'd prolly cry if i went back now, its changed so much. and correction, these are daoc off topic boards, im talking about off topic stuff...

i understand you cant comprehend UO, fair enough you werent lucky enough to play it.. but seriously dont even try to knock it, its just not worth it.. your so wrong its almost painful. you can have your daoc game, but dont try knocking UO.. just dont.

 

[Coim-]

Originally posted by --Random--
its perhaps more fun from the PKd perspective tbh. OK getting pk'd in the first place is an arse and not fun, specially when the PK kills your horse just to piss you off. but then, and this is where it differs from other games, you go back to your friends, round them together, make a plan of action, and go out and slaughter the bastard and nick everything he owns. or even the feeling of getting away from a PK... if they jump you, and somehow you manage to surivive and make it into town, its a huge adrenalin rush and a huge feeling of acheivement.

there are huge penalties with PKing aswell, like never being able to enter towns, not being able to be rezzed by NPCs, having any player being able to attack you at any time, having perma loss of skills and stats... its a truely difficult road to take, but a truely fun one aswell.

Sounds fucking awesome! Losing all your hard earned items to some random people. Uber.

 

[Coim-]

Originally posted by --Random--
UO isnt the game it was, as i said, its totally different and tbh i'd prolly cry if i went back now, its changed so much. and correction, these are daoc off topic boards, im talking about off topic stuff...

i understand you cant comprehend UO, fair enough you werent lucky enough to play it.. but seriously dont even try to knock it, its just not worth it.. your so wrong its almost painful. you can have your daoc game, but dont try knocking UO.. just dont.

Then you don't 'knock' DAoC. Such n00bishness.

 

[k9awya]

Originally posted by Coim-
Tbh, if you played UO, then the level of skill it requires must be so low it's frightening.

so wrong, uo is still the most skillful mmorpg, even if it is a LOT less skillful than it used to be, things like daoc.. just dont come close.

uo was ultimate player vs player, not class vs class or ability vs ability or item vs item

 

[--Random--]

Originally posted by Alkoran
I doubt very much that UO has a balanced PvP system, because there are no seprate factions, it is far easier for people to simply match their character to the current strength so removing the necessity for the developer to balance aspects of the combat, if something is overpowered you just get it yourself.

for starters there are seperate factions, and they're even called factions, thats how painfully wrong you are instantly. the UO system of balance is better than daoc any day, in the way you spec your char the way you want him specced. you could have an axe weilding mage if ya like, you dont have to stick to a set perameter like in daoc. if your an armsman in daoc you get no spells. however if your a swordsman in uo for example, why not take up some magery, maybe some wrestling, maybe some hiding? maybe even some archery, anything you want, you balance your OWN char, the developers dont.

 

[Coim-]

Originally posted by k9awya
so wrong, uo is still the most skillful mmorpg, even if it is a LOT less skillful than it used to be, things like daoc.. just dont come close.

uo was ultimate player vs player, not class vs class or ability vs ability or item vs item

I just said somewhere else, no game requires skill. It's button pressing, nothing more.

 

[--Random--]

Originally posted by k9awya
so wrong, uo is still the most skillful mmorpg, even if it is a LOT less skillful than it used to be, things like daoc.. just dont come close.

uo was ultimate player vs player, not class vs class or ability vs ability or item vs item

/agree, finally someone that knows uo.

 

[Coim-]

Originally posted by --Random--
/agree, finally someone that knows uo.

Lol. It's k9. He'd say anything just to make himself different from us. Anyone who goes on about VF the way he does has issues.

 

[k9awya]

Originally posted by Coim-
I just said somewhere else, no game requires skill. It's button pressing, nothing more.

wrong :/

 

[k9awya]

Originally posted by Coim-
Lol. It's k9. He'd say anything just to make himself different from us. Anyone who goes on about VF the way he does has issues.

id say it cause i play uo you freak.

"go on about vf" ive made like less than 10 posts about vf? idiot.

 

[Coim-]

Originally posted by k9awya
id say it cause i play uo you freak.

"go on about vf" ive made like less than 10 posts about vf? idiot.

2 threads. That's saaaaaaad.

 

[Alkoran]

Originally posted by --Random--
for starters there are seperate factions, and they're even called factions, thats how painfully wrong you are instantly. the UO system of balance is better than daoc any day, in the way you spec your char the way you want him specced. you could have an axe weilding mage if ya like, you dont have to stick to a set perameter like in daoc. if your an armsman in daoc you get no spells. however if your a swordsman in uo for example, why not take up some magery, maybe some wrestling, maybe some hiding? maybe even some archery, anything you want, you balance your OWN char, the developers dont.

Do the factions actually govern your abilities and bind you to a group against all else?

What I was trying to explain about balance is exactly what you've stated. It's the easy way of doing it Mythics way is harder, but they have managed to acheive something which works very well.

 

[Coim-]

And a sig which is clearly VF / Garnet / anyone else related.

 

[k9awya]

Originally posted by Coim-
2 threads. That's saaaaaaad.

one was just a link to another, the purpose was to inform people, i thought id let the hibbies know too.

sad = 20 posts/day on forum (hi coim)

 

[old.Dillinja]

Calm down guys.

 

[Alkoran]

Originally posted by k9awya
one was just a link to another, the purpose was to inform people, i thought id let the hibbies know too.

sad = 20 posts/day on forum (hi coim)

Coim's posts are amusing and intelligent.

Your's are tedious and iritating.

 

[k9awya]

Originally posted by Alkoran
Do the factions actually govern your abilities and bind you to a group against all else?

What I was trying to explain about balance is exactly what you've stated. It's the easy way of doing it Mythics way is harder, but they have managed to acheive something which works very well.

daoc cant be balance cause its class based, in uo you could make the char what you wanted at any point, the only class difference were really is someone made a dexer(warrior) or a mage, and that has been suprisingly even over the years even if the dexers take no skill

who cares if its an easy way, it made a better game where duelling someone actually meant something, teamplay was also a lot more advanced, in daoc you just pick one job and do it "duh u r the healer you do xxx xxx xx!"

in uo you had to heal people cure yourself, attack the right target in group fights, every mage had the same spells so tactics were big.

 

[k9awya]

Originally posted by Alkoran
Coim's posts are amusing and intelligent.

Your's are tedious and iritating.

intelligence measured with a micrometer ic.

amusing.. hardly, maybe to the undeveloped brain.

 

[Coim-]

Originally posted by Alkoran
Coim's posts are amusing and intelligent.

Your's are tedious and iritating.

Whoa,, thanks. Oh, and one more thing, as I recall, he was asking for the best mmorpg out there at the moment. Which UO clearly isn't. Okthx.

 

[Alkoran]

Originally posted by k9awya
daoc cant be balance cause its class based, in uo you could make the char what you wanted at any point, the only class difference were really is someone made a dexer(warrior) or a mage,

in uo you had to heal people cure yourself, attack the right target in group fights, every mage had the same spells so tactics were big.

Here you argue that there is great diversity, but then state that tactics are only a major part when characters work the same way. This is hard to follow please explain.

 

[k9awya]

Originally posted by Coim-
Whoa,, thanks. Oh, and one more thing, as I recall, he was asking for the best mmorpg out there at the moment. Which UO clearly isn't. Okthx.

uo is still the best.. i think.. will give info once ive tried ffxi this week

far better than daoc anyway

so clearly someone is wrong, yes.. you.

 

[k9awya]

Originally posted by Alkoran
Here you argue that there is great diversity, but then state that tactics are only a major part when characters work the same way. This is hard to follow please explain.

i wouldnt need to explain this to my 8 year old nephew, why are you so different?

i said nothing of GREAT DIVERSITY, there were many different mage templates yes, in the end you use the same spells still.. the dexers never took skill, mainly just double click someone and follow, some did this better than others ok!

its the mage pvp that mattered, if two people go for a duel, same stat cap, same skill cap, same 5 mage skills.. the result is one of the tactics and skill used in the fight, a good player would beat an average one 10 out of 10 times

 

[Alkoran]

Originally posted by k9awya
uo is still the best.. i think.. will give info once ive tried ffxi this week

far better than daoc anyway

so clearly someone is wrong, yes.. you.

UO is (or perhaps was) a great game, the reason I did not play it was because of the strong role that unpleasant PvP played in it. When somebody kills you in UO they know what they are taking from you and it is a lot, dying in UO is no fun, so people will ruin your fun so they can have more gold or better items. I don't want to play a game like this.
Dying in RvR is a relativy painless experience you can just go back and fight again, you don't lose anything, sure people get angry, but winning the fight isn't everything here, you can lose the fight and have just as much fun. That is perhaps the greatest thing about DAoC's PvP system.

 

[k9awya]

nowdays there is insurance, you dont lose armour etc in uo

before like 7 months ago armour weapons and regs got looted yeah, hardly cost a lot

mages mostly didnt pvp in armour

 

[Wonk]

Originally posted by k9awya
uo is still the best..

that made me laugh

 

[Alkoran]

Originally posted by k9awya
its the mage pvp that mattered, if two people go for a duel, same stat cap, same skill cap, same 5 mage skills.. the result is one of the tactics and skill used in the fight, a good player would beat an average one 10 out of 10 times

Ah now you see this is why I did not understand, this demonstrates exactly what I was wanting to say, but didn't for fear of it being horribly wrong.

UO may not be class based, but this is just the same, people play by template. You cannot say that template duels = skill, yet class based duels do not.

DAoC brings a different aspect to the feild, you're enemys are not the same as you and not the same as each other you fight in different styles. This is what made Starcraft truely great and this is what make DAoC so hard to balance, but it means that the battle is more diverse and people may build groups that work in different ways.