DAoC vs WoW - the aftermath

[Sendraks]

so i can still equip rank 8 items if i drop to rank 1?

Yup, providing that you purchased them at rank 8.

You can't got to rank 8, not get the items, drop to rank 1 (which takes months and months believe me) and then go back and get the items. But providing you get everything at rank 8, you'll be fine to wear them forever.

 

[ilaya]

played my mage to lvl 60 on wow, was no endgame, came back to daoc for a few months.. and found that mythic had fucked daoc up as well. neither blizzard or mythic gonna get another penny out of me, gonna let subs run out.. both games are a disgrace. one started badly and got it all wrong.. the other was good then turned into a money grabbing exercise.

im currently playing phantasy star online blue burst.. and just killing time until phantasy star universe.

wow and daoc can kiss my arse. we deserve better.

 

[Nive11en]

I'm a WoW player right now. I have to say that the WoW level 1-60 experience is very nice, as long as you do it once, if you try leveling an alt it gets very tedious. (Isn't it the same with every MMORPG? )

Now what I cannot agree with is that the WoW end-game sucks. If it sucks for you, then the only reason it does is because you haven't explored the game and haven't played in any real instances such as Molten Core or Blackwing Lair.

I have found that no other MMORPG offers the challenge and feel of end-game 40 player instances. Not even DAoC. In WoW you can get together a stable group of more or less mature players, use Ventrilo and really enjoy raiding. Thanks to a great addon system in WoW you can use things like CT_RaidAssist to see the health and mana as well as debuffs and lots of other information of every person in the raid. This gives some great tools for organisation in WoW, something I don't remember from, lets say doing Master Level encounters in DAoC.

There's quite a learning curve for instances such as Molten Core and BWL as well. It took my raiding group about 1-2 months to just learn to kill the MC end-boss Ragnaros. This effectively stops and weeds out any of the kids. Doubtful they'll have the dedication to get to such a point. (and I'm only 19 -.- was pretty young when I started playin DAoC)

I've also read some whines about how epixxx got a 0.0001% chance to drop. Well thats true for the world epics. But thats how they were meant to be, I mean the item is called an epic for a reason, those items aren't supposed to be dropping much from mobs that can be soloed. The only reliable way of getting epics in WoW is raiding with groups of usually 30-40 people whether to kill some world bosses like Kazzak or Azuregos or go to a dungeon instance (MC/BWL). Each boss usually drops 2-4 epics and any self-respecting raid/guild that raids will be using a DKP system to distribute loot. (Dragon kill pts -> http://eqdkp.com/ )

Personally I think the WoW PvE endgame is great, it offers challenges that are much more difficult than the DAoC endgame PvE.

PvP in WoW is much different though, I'm on a PvE server myself, that means I can't get ganked in any area by the horde unless I enable my pvp flag. The battleground instances are very nice, they allow for more or less balanced games, although thats usually not true because you can preform a group. The real big problem with PvE servers and PvP Battlegrounds in them are the queues and the horde to alliance ratio. On the server I play on - Shadowsong, the ratio is 3 to 1, for every 3 alliance members theres 1 horde. This basicly means that to play in a battleground on the alliance side (like the newly introduced 15 vs 15 Arathi Basin) you need to wait anywhere from 10 minutes to even 1-2 hours to get in, while horde queues and just gets in almost instantly. That's a major problem and it .. really .. fucking .. sucks!

Now if you've read through all of my post then grats

Why am I posting here? Well.. I find myself thinking about DAoC quite a bit, DAoC has the best PvP system hands down. I keep getting the urge to renew and RvR. One reason I haven't renewed yet is because of buff bots, although it's never a problem to ask someone for buffs from his bot, it just feels like an annoying chore to me and also makes me feel very reliant on other people good will to boof me, or my old "Rose" friends to boof me with their bots. And it's impossible to compete without buffs.

Still, DAoC rocks so much at PvP, I know I will have to renew for it sooner or later. No other MMORPG gave me so much satisfaction and adrenaline rushes while PvPing - RvRing in DAoC. I'll always love DAoC.

Just wanted to point out some bright points in the end game of WoW. Tho don't consider this post some kind of "I am God and I will tell you teh truth post". This is only an opinion. WoW endgame PvE is very deep and much more time consuming than leveling from 1 to 60.

Someone once said on these forums that the *Real World of Warcraft* starts at level 60, and I can only agree.

 

[Sendraks]

I'm If it sucks for you, then the only reason it does is because you haven't explored the game and haven't played in any real instances such as Molten Core or Blackwing Lair.

Actually I don't like it because I've explored those end game instances. Molten Core seemed like a laugh at first, but the time committment to it is just silly and after the first 20hours or so there, it starts getting dull.

Tactics not withstanding (because I agree there is a learning curve and tactics are needed) you have to be prepared to turn your damn life over to play MC at first and frankly WoW was sold to me as being the "casual player friendly game." Its not. The high end stuff is not for the casual player at all, because the end game content is focused on this kind of high end stuff.

With the exception of BWL and Zul Gurub (because I quit shortly before they were released) I've played through the high end instances. I really enjoyed 5 manning DM and Strat. I've done most of the epic quests.

So to say that those of us who say the WoW end game experience isn't that good because "we've not explored it" is incorrect. Certainly in my case and probably for a lot of others.

If you're the sort of person who can invest the time required though, it rocks. As I regularly see from the screenies and stories from friends of mine who are still playing.

 

[Nive11en]

Yeah, exploring isn't the right word. But after reading through many posts this just came out of my head.

Tho the raids don't take that much time, right now my raid groups schedule is a bit more casual, 3 times a week - 5 hours each. Takes around 6 hours to do the whole of Molten Core. Although I heard it's doable in 3 hours, but that's just hardcore.

Anyway, the cool thing about WoW is anyone can find something he likes to do. Quick raids to Scholo or joining a raid guild, etc.

Just remembered, the first time I turned WoW on, it was surprising, seemed very cartoonish, and my first impression was negative. Other than that it seems much more *smooth* than DAoC. Still DAoC PvP really outdistances WoW by light years.

 

[Abnormal]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=5116621&P=1
imo ;o - do read the second page of that thread

 

[Laston]

Actually I don't like it because I've explored those end game instances. Molten Core seemed like a laugh at first, but the time committment to it is just silly and after the first 20hours or so there, it starts getting dull.

Tactics not withstanding (because I agree there is a learning curve and tactics are needed) you have to be prepared to turn your damn life over to play MC at first and frankly WoW was sold to me as being the "casual player friendly game." Its not. The high end stuff is not for the casual player at all, because the end game content is focused on this kind of high end stuff.

With the exception of BWL and Zul Gurub (because I quit shortly before they were released) I've played through the high end instances. I really enjoyed 5 manning DM and Strat. I've done most of the epic quests.

So to say that those of us who say the WoW end game experience isn't that good because "we've not explored it" is incorrect. Certainly in my case and probably for a lot of others.

If you're the sort of person who can invest the time required though, it rocks. As I regularly see from the screenies and stories from friends of mine who are still playing.

if you dont like MC go check zul gurub, it's 20 man instance that resets in 2.5 day and imo the best instance in game atm, so awesome design. bosses are fun and hard etc. loot is not as good as MC but it's some VERY nice items anyway

 

[Aloca]

http://www.darkandlight.net

Going to rule the game scene soon! :eek2:

 

[Sendraks]

if you dont like MC go check zul gurub, it's 20 man instance that resets in 2.5 day and imo the best instance in game atm, so awesome design. bosses are fun and hard etc. loot is not as good as MC but it's some VERY nice items anyway

I'm aware of how nice Zul-Gurub is, plenty of my friends still play.

But whats the point in obtaining items for a character when there is no worthwhile PvP to use them in?

 

[Fana]

http://www.darkandlight.net

Going to rule the game scene soon! :eek2:

mmm

 

[fionnel]

Actually, the odds of running into a well organised, very well equipped enemy are far better in the BGs than they are in DAoC RvR. There is nothing fun about facing the same 10 man WSG group, over and over again, who have been there all day, every day, for the past week, are kitted out in top end MC/PvP gear and generally wiping the floor with everyone.

And the fact that they are almost always frikkin there means that you will wind up facing them more often than not.

Sure on the frontiers there is a chance you might run into that 8 man RR8+ gank group, but thats a helluva lot more space than WSG has.

Actually, as i said the game experience depends a lot on server/faction choice.

On my server (Deathwing) and Horde side it works like this:

Join AB queue
1-2 minutes
Get in, check the names of the other team
stay if it's a pug, /afk otherwise (i wouldn't do it but 10 people instantly leave so not much point in staying)
Repeat

There are 3-5 AB instances up at anytime+ 1 AV instance (wsg is pretty much dead) and from them 1-2 have hardcore guilds on them and 2-3 are pugs, so your chances are good.

The advantages over daoc are:

-If you face a gg you don't waste 10-15 minutes running to and around emain but only 1-2 minutes it gets for you to enter the next bg.

-You don't have to face gg's if you don't feel like it.

If i was on another server/faction that could be totally different but i am not. So it works better for me.

 

[Nive11en]

On my server (Deathwing) and Horde side it works like this:

Join AB queue
1-2 minutes
Get in, check the names of the other team
stay if it's a pug, /afk otherwise (i wouldn't do it but 10 people instantly leave so not much point in staying)
Repeat

I hate that, that's exactly what happens on my server Shadowsong. We wait 30-60 minutes for one game, and horde decides to /afk out if they see well known hardcore PvPers. Some of my guildies are top PvPers on the server and I did 7 Arathi Basin games with them today, out of which in 6 games horde afked out. Fucking silly, Blizz needs to give some kind of punishment for anyone that /afks out or a bonus to the alliance team if horde just flees. (BTW, for those that don't know, if you are in a battleground in WoW and type /afk, you will get ported out of the BG).

 

[Sendraks]

I hate that, that's exactly what happens on my server Shadowsong. We wait 30-60 minutes for one game, and horde decides to /afk out if they see well known hardcore PvPers. Some of my guildies are top PvPers on the server and I did 7 Arathi Basin games with them today, out of which in 6 games horde afked out. Fucking silly, Blizz needs to give some kind of punishment for anyone that /afks out or a bonus to the alliance team if horde just flees. (BTW, for those that don't know, if you are in a battleground in WoW and type /afk, you will get ported out of the BG).

While I understand the frustration of your friends, some people do have better things to do than have their ass handed to them ad-nauseum by the top players on the server.

People would rather have a fun balanced match than just be someone elses honour farm.

Blizz shouldn't punish anyone for bowing out of a match, thats easily one of the most stupid suggestions I have ever heard. Why should someone who arguably plays less (which is a good general rule of thumb) be punished for declining to fight someone who plays more?

What Blizz need to do is sort out their BG system, so that the games are fairer and better balanced.

 

[fionnel]

Actually they are giving faction bonus for losing a game at AB from next patch so it should be better for you, even if people will propably sit and die once then wait at the graveyard until the game's end and then they will just collect the reward.

 

[Comos]

Have to agree that this cant be a very accurate poll since it's mostly DAoC players on this forum.

 

[Zill]

played my mage to lvl 60 on wow, was no endgame, came back to daoc for a few months.. and found that mythic had fucked daoc up as well. neither blizzard or mythic gonna get another penny out of me, gonna let subs run out.. both games are a disgrace. one started badly and got it all wrong.. the other was good then turned into a money grabbing exercise.

im currently playing phantasy star online blue burst.. and just killing time until phantasy star universe.

wow and daoc can kiss my arse. we deserve better.

I agree mostly with the sentiment. I'm reluctant to renew my DAOC subscription (the last I played was early last year) even though I'd like to visit my old stomping grounds again. I've always loathed what Mythic have done to this once great game, but there's no point in me adding anymore to that or I'll be here all day moaning.

I was very fortunate to have played DAOC in the beginning which I consider to be the halcyon days of the game. It was certainly the most enjoyable gaming experience I've ever had online. Without going into the class issues, there was some great characters/guilds around and a lot of rivalry between the three realms, which not only created a lot of competitiveness but also a sense of achievement when relic raids succeeded. The prime-time relic raids masterminded by Killgorde and the one by White Rose, where we got the Hib relic through 1,000 or so players congregating in Emain, was genius. The last time I played DAOC everything was confined mostly to Emain or going of to Atlantis. Keep sieging and relic raids appeared to have become obsolete.

On the other side, Blizzard have created a beautiful, engrossing game but have failed to implement a pvp side nowhere near enough to maintain my interest (the same with a lot of other old school players). I find these battlegrounds tedious, boring and totally unchallenging, not to mention the appalling queuing system you have to endure first.

If WoW had DAOC's PvP then it would be perfect.

 

[tigekala]

I played daoc for ~2 years, then WoW and last month i came back to daoc, but as i don't have a buffbot anymore i can't do any rvr with my shadowblade, so im planning to return to WoW after my subscription ends.
The reason i like wow better is that I don't need 2 or more accounts to be competetive. PvP is ok in wow, atleast in pvp servers. The instanced pvp was a failure and i like to pvp in contested territorys instead (places with no safety flags) and always find lots of action. I play level 60 rogue, and it takes whole lot more skill than playing DAOC rogue classes.
The characters may look a bit "disney", but the landscape looks good, sky in Daoc looks a bit better though.

 

[Reika]

Currently playing WOW. Hardly been on DAOC as a result, but I'll still play cos my friends are hooked on DAOC.

Prefer the WOW interface. Pretty much all the issues I find so frustrating with DAOC are not present in WOW.

 

[Tallen]

Tried just about every game around and I ended up back with DAoC, now on my third and final realm

The only game that I enjoyed anywhere near as much as DAoC is EvE Online, WoW was a bit of a clone as was EQ2 (in fact 99% of fantasy mmorpg's are all the same game with differet fluff, zero creativity or origionality, just some botched attempt at a storyline with grinding, crafting and some tacked-on ranking system, all the same).

EvE is unique, its sublime and it has the best community in online gaming.

WoW is unorigional, tacky and b-net territory.

You do the math

 

[Tallen]

The reason i like wow better is that I don't need 2 or more accounts to be competetive.

To be honest they are dumbing down buffbot participation with the new classes (Heretic and Vamp have no need for a buffbot) and subclasses which will allow you to acquire buffs for any class.

Buff shearing means you really need a buffer in your group (or be prepared to run back to the realm port every 5 minutes) more than sat at a keep somewhere.

All they have to do now is put timers on ALL buffs and its adios buffbots. It's still a problem, but they are getting there.

 

[Haggus]

It's amazing to see all the people saying it's shit etc, before it came out nearly everyone was saying how great it would be. Tis funny

 

[Nive11en]

While I understand the frustration of your friends, some people do have better things to do than have their ass handed to them ad-nauseum by the top players on the server.

People would rather have a fun balanced match than just be someone elses honour farm.

Blizz shouldn't punish anyone for bowing out of a match, thats easily one of the most stupid suggestions I have ever heard. Why should someone who arguably plays less (which is a good general rule of thumb) be punished for declining to fight someone who plays more?

What Blizz need to do is sort out their BG system, so that the games are fairer and better balanced.

I admit that punishing someone for /afking out is not the brightest thing as it will simply lead him to boycotting/refusing to participate in that place. But certainly typing /afk and vanishing into thin air, then appearing at a safe place, was not meant to be?

What makes /afk abusing even more serious is the alliance to horde ration, it's mainly horde exploiting it, since they can easily choose what games they are in and which ones they leave. This puts them at a very advantaged position. You know alliance players also paid for the game.

 

[Laston]

I admit that punishing someone for /afking out is not the brightest thing as it will simply lead him to boycotting/refusing to participate in that place. But certainly typing /afk and vanishing into thin air, then appearing at a safe place, was not meant to be?

What makes /afk abusing even more serious is the alliance to horde ration, it's mainly horde exploiting it, since they can easily choose what games they are in and which ones they leave. This puts them at a very advantaged position. You know alliance players also paid for the game.

funny on my server we have between 1-6 hour queues for AV/WSG/AB (usually only AB up atm with 30 mins-2 hour queue atm, before it was AV with a 2-6 hour queue) the alliance are not outnumbered tbh but they really dont want to PvP for some reason

 

[fionnel]

I admit that punishing someone for /afking out is not the brightest thing as it will simply lead him to boycotting/refusing to participate in that place. But certainly typing /afk and vanishing into thin air, then appearing at a safe place, was not meant to be?

What makes /afk abusing even more serious is the alliance to horde ration, it's mainly horde exploiting it, since they can easily choose what games they are in and which ones they leave. This puts them at a very advantaged position. You know alliance players also paid for the game.

Actually it was intended, as there's an exit to each bg so you can leave if you don't feel like playing and it's next to your team's base so even if /afk didn't work exiting the game the first 10 secs would still be doable.

And it's done as much by horde as it's done by alliance, it just hurts the overpopulated realm the most as you need to wait in a long queue again, while i only have to wait 2 mins for the next game.

 

[koxi]

Not gonna leave a game where i spent numerous hours getting rank and gear to start all over in a similar game.. have some friends who are playing WoW, but game don't even make me feel like trying it out..

 

[remi]

everything is better in wow except pvp.

the honour system doesnt fit my playingstyle, (hardcore a week, work the 2nd week, and your back to square one..)

 

[Afran]

everything is better in wow except pvp.

the honour system doesnt fit my playingstyle, (hardcore a week, work the 2nd week, and your back to square one..)

yes that sucked, mainly the reason I quit :/

 

[Sendraks]

the honour system doesnt fit my playingstyle, (hardcore a week, work the 2nd week, and your back to square one..)

The system doesn't work like that at all.

It took about 3 months of me not PvPing to see my characters rank fall from 8 to 3.

 

[fionnel]

You don't really lose a rank with 1 week of inactivity, but the truth is you have to be really really hardcore to get to the top 3-4 ranks, pretty much having wow as your only rl activity. To tell the truth i started off to do pvp but i was sucked by the game's lore and story and i have found myself doing more instances and quests than pvp and not just to hunt for ze epix.

 

[Sendraks]

You don't really lose a rank with 1 week of inactivity, but the truth is you have to be really really hardcore to get to the top 3-4 ranks, pretty much having wow as your only rl activity.

THis is in part the issue I have with WoW. Prior to the introduction of the Battlegrounds, you could put a few hours into PvP each week and providing you played well and smart, you could rack up enough CPs to make progress on your standing. This was because the CP gain per week, per player, was quite small on average, especially with the majority seeming tp prefer CP sucking Raid groups.

So on my server you could easily pull in around 3000-6000cps a week and have a good standing.

Post BGs, well the allocation of CPs for competing in the BGs was just silly, with players comfortably pulling in 10k+ a day. That skewed WoW PvP in favour of those who were just prepared to put the time in, over those who couldn't but could play smart. I'm not saying that the top players aren't good, because they are, but they were good pre-BGs anyway.