Daoc Europe keep losing players

[Bugz]

Pardon me?
Regarding my smart-ass oneliners, I assumed the statement was so obvious that it needed no elaborate explenation, clearly someone didn't grasp it.

The thing is, NPCs are scripted/programmed to act. They follow a more or less constant pattern and are predictable, in the end they offer only limited challenge.

On the other hand, fighting players is completely different. You cannot fully predict what players will do, in most cases it takes alot more skill and effort to beat a player than an NPC. Players and playstyles are in constant change and requires you to adapt and learn all the time. For instance the FG vs FG groups changes alot around on setup and playstyles, be it tank grps, caster grps, kite grps , hopefully you get the picture.

In the future I would appreciate if you would not be so quick on the trigger.

Regards
Coldbeard.

Isn't that exactly what I am getting at?

RvR has the fun aspect. Fun was probably a badly use word but it has the more variation, challenge and different apporaches. I guess you could class all that under fun.

Now what I said was PvE needs that fun aspect aka. the same stuff mentoned above.

It's not the grind which is a problem, but the fun you having doing it.

 

[old.Whoodoo]

In my honest opinion it's too late to save, don`t mean to sound negative just realistic. The time to save it was a year maybe a year and a half ago, now it`s just the remnants of a playerbase clinging onto the last vestiges of a once great game.

Too many of the old playerbase have moved on and not been replaced by players of equal committment, intelligence, ability or community spirit. On my main characters from back on prydwen I have totally full friends lists and rarely is there ever any of them online. My guild is spread around playing all sorts of games atm and none have any desire to come back to daoc.

Alernative rules servers were fantastic to start with untill a percentage of the population killed it off as they killed every other server. I'll not throw around blame but the fact is the players left on the english servers helped to kill the english servers not save them.

It's time to move on people, no really it is

/rep

 

[Esoteric]

In my honest opinion it's too late to save, don`t mean to sound negative just realistic. The time to save it was a year maybe a year and a half ago, now it`s just the remnants of a playerbase clinging onto the last vestiges of a once great game.

Too many of the old playerbase have moved on and not been replaced by players of equal committment, intelligence, ability or community spirit. On my main characters from back on prydwen I have totally full friends lists and rarely is there ever any of them online. My guild is spread around playing all sorts of games atm and none have any desire to come back to daoc.

Alernative rules servers were fantastic to start with untill a percentage of the population killed it off as they killed every other server. I'll not throw around blame but the fact is the players left on the english servers helped to kill the english servers not save them.

It's time to move on people, no really it is

Yes :worthy:

 

[Coldbeard]

not throw around blame but the fact is the players left on the english servers helped to kill the english servers not save them

Might have misunderstood your point, but the many idiots remaining on the servers making people quit have equal share in "killing the server".

 

[Lamp]

NPC BUFFBOTS in the frontiers ( Lots of players cant use 2 pc or have a ubber pc)

For others its about not being able to afford to pay monthly subs for an additional account just for a BB

 

[Lamp]

Half-Ogre nostrils are bigger, allowing for easier picking.
Firbolg just get trained Luris to run up inside their noses and do the picking for them.
Trolls have tiny nostrils and huge paws, making nasal exploration very difficult.

It's a SLAP IN THE FACE and a direct nerf to Midgard yet again!

ROFL

 

[Oldleaf]

For others its about not being able to afford to pay monthly subs for an additional account just for a BB

I reopened my second BB account to try my Inf on cluster again. Fully spellcrafted and all arties done, still loosing every single fight because the difference in ra's is to big. Another way Mythic killed his own game, make the stronger even stronger, let the weak suffer.

For me reason enough to leave cluster for good.

 

[cHodAX]

I reopened my second BB account to try my Inf on cluster again. Fully spellcrafted and all arties done, still loosing every single fight because the difference in ra's is to big. Another way Mythic killed his own game, make the stronger even stronger, let the weak suffer.

For me reason enough to leave cluster for good.

Got to agree with that, the difference between those with loads of RA's (RR8+) and those with only the basics (RR4-5) is massive. You could play against the same person with the same items and same real rank as you and stand a chance, but try going up against the same person when they are 3 realm tanks above you and 9 times out of 10 you will get your arse handed to you irrespective of skill. RA's were supposed to compliment RvR not dictate it, that is where Mythic screwed the pooch in my opinion, they rewarded the best players but the rewards were too high and it left the many being farmed as realm point fodder by the few.

 

[Rub]

realm tanks

something new i dont know of?

 

[Steveh]

Got to agree with that, the difference between those with loads of RA's (RR8+) and those with only the basics (RR4-5) is massive. You could play against the same person with the same items and same real rank as you and stand a chance, but try going up against the same person when they are 3 realm tanks above you and 9 times out of 10 you will get your arse handed to you irrespective of skill. RA's were supposed to compliment RvR not dictate it, that is where Mythic screwed the pooch in my opinion, they rewarded the best players but the rewards were too high and it left the many being farmed as realm point fodder by the few.

not true.I killed Gingy with my runemaster !!

rr1 vs rr9

/hug Gingy

If you can play your char well you still can do nice fights .
Look to Valheru they are rr4-5 and they made very decent fights with everyone and they win many of it. ( tho i dont know where are they now )
with the rp boost every player can get a decent realm lvl if they want to play more then 2 hour / week.
if this players want to play less then they need to chose another game not a online one.

 

[Esselinithia]

PvE in DaoC is the road to RvR and nothing else, and that road has become too long for most new players coz whenever they think they are done (like when reaching level 50) a new door opens saying oops sry, u might be 50 but try rvr, u'll only be torn apart. And that keeps going on till they either quit or learn it the hard way over month of beeing zerged, dying to moc sorcs, buffboted stealthgrps or maybe just to a /use ability they don't know yet.

The cure for the game are not new players, but allowing those new players to get into the game more quickly. And the easiest and best way to do this is not another addon with yet another level system but by reducing the gap between a cl5 ml10 full toa equipped rr10 and a cl0 ml0 rog items rr1 to a healthy level.

It is entirely false argument. Why? Because when Prydwen had 1500+ players, it had less than 300 in RvR? That is mighty 20% of the population, from the 300 in RvR, we had about 6-8 elite guilds: up to 64 people in these opted groups, and about 30 buffbots, some stealthers, and some people to be farmed or in BGs. Where the other 1200 players were? The answer is easy: They were busy AND happy with PVE.

Casual players, PVE fans (I hate RvR, but like some PVE content in DAoC), newbies, dedicated crafters (yes, you were able to talk and chat in Diogel for HOURS).

/level an PL killed the leveling part, and also it means, most newbies won't find new friends to play with, and get bored rather quickly. Try to level without PL, and notice how much people you meet, how can you get new friends, new guilds, how much fun you have?

DAoC is an MMORPG, you pay for it, because it is Massively Multiplayer, fg vs fg PVP is there in other games, and for a true playing skill based PVP game there are other options. You pay basically for the community, PL and /level separated the new players from the majority of the community. And soon, more and more people separated from each other, and tried other games.

While RVR people DO come back and we don't have much less active RvR people now than before, casual players, PVE raiders, etc. don't come back so easily since DAoC can't offer too much.

What would we need? Stronger rewards for the Guild Merit point system. Stopping PL by force (new XP rules, etc). Make creating new characters a bit rewarding (some bonus skill points for new characters). Making sure that idle, afk, etc. members of raids won't get credits, and ban people who try to avoid this limitation. And a free trial with ALL expansions in some major magazines. Good PVE events with help of volunteers.

You are staying in the game, and your only problem is lack of players, and think the people who left wants the things as you. If they would want the same things they would stay.

If they want different things, you can ask them why they left? Why the casual players left? Why the PVE fans left? Why the people who spent their days with crafting in diogel left? (Why would they care for quick access to RvR if they liked other elements of game?) Because what they liked is pretty much destroyed.

For community, events, etc. you might pay.
For quick instant PVP there are free games, free shards and more. Why would some pay for that?

And of course, with the PVE fan friends leaving the game because their fun is destroyed means: You will get PVE help less frequently, have less friends to play with, so slowly even RVR people leaves and has to leave.

Think about it, and when you don't have a group in RVR, open that LFG panel you forgot about, and see if you can make a group with people still leveling, if you can help people with group steps, if you can help people with CL, and if they enjoy the game, the PVE people will stay, and sometimes they will even go out to defend the tower they claimed. Or because they need more peoply trying to get BPs for maintaining that level 5 tower.

This kind of people left in droves. And if you want to keep the game, you should make them stay, and make their friends come back, and invite new people to the game and try to have fun even in PVE. Then we will have lots of players on Prydwen again.

 

[Rub]

not true.I killed Gingy with my runemaster !!

there is still something called... having luck

oh and to all those ppl saying PvE is not fun... it isnt... anymore, i can remember lvling my armsman and i just cared about having fun, making friends etc etc but that thing has left in daoc everyone just want to get 50 asap so he gets his char pled

 

[Esselinithia]

Rub: Same here
And when we have 100 on prydwen, I know about 6-8 ex prydwenites who would be playing if there would be good XP groups. If we would have 7-8 such groups, soon we would have 150 instead of 100.

With that 50 in PVE lands, people would find XP groups, and with that, some more people would come, and some newbies would join the fun, we would storm the dark elf caste to get nice glowies for some true newbies in Hibernia, or would look for the nameds in the crypt in albion... With that, more newbies would subscribe after the trial, and we would have around 200, when we have 100 now...

With good chance to find groups, and some fun in PVE, some casual players would come back, and soon you wouldn't log because no groups, but stay after a group, since there will be another one starting soon, and in that time you can group with casual players who have limited time... They would stay, log in more often, show the game to their GFs, send out invites, and the 200 would become 250 and 300.

Each change can attract a new change, and can help or kill the game.
To start the change one just have to set lfg, and help casual people, pve people, newbies to have fun, when there is no good groups in rvr, when one can log in. Too bad most current players are too lazy and selfish to do that.

 

[Void959]

with the rp boost every player can get a decent realm lvl if they want to play more then 2 hour / week.
if this players want to play less then they need to chose another game not a online one.

Well a very good group with a reasonable amount of luck won't get much over 25k per hour which would mean 1 year to get rr6 at 2 hours per week, really people do need to play much more than that if they want high RR. Now I don't think it's a problem that more time = better char, but like others have said, RR does play to too large a part in this game.

 

[Esselinithia]

Void959: Can I reword it? I say: High RR people are considered too important in the game, and most causal players are left because of it.

 

[evzy]

OMG reading all this now has made me realise I should just quit DAOC cos its dead...






Maybe some of us don't play for the ownage or being l33t and just play to chat to people, have a laugh, do some silly shit and have fun.... I don't need 500+ people online to enjoy myself - tbh as long as there are a handfull of people on DAOC I will still find shit to laugh about playing it.

 

[Melachi]

I don't play daoc at the moment because I can't, live too far away at the moment. I would play if I was back in Europe.

But at the same time, daoc experience is nothing what it used to be like, and I put this down too several things, but one of the biggest factors imo is, pve died.

I've never been a fan of PvE, the actual grind, but back when I was leveling my first chars things were so difirent. PvEing wasn't really grinding then, it was grouping. XP was sometimes great and sometimes terrible, but it was never as dull as it is now. Back then you could go to Fort Atla at lower levels and find loads of other low levels (healers in cloth, hunters with no spears, some fancy fecker with a black dyed merchant cloak). Or you would go DF and inside at the entrance you would see atleast 20 odd people all sitting down, buying and selling stuff and forming groups, with the occaisonal newbie running yelling for help as 20 lilispawns chase him.

And why does all this matter? Because nowadays if your not having a laugh in RvR, or just not in the mood for it full stop, your other alternatives are solo with you buffbot in PvE, or powerlevel, or spend an hour at the ME, which are all boring and unsocial.

Everything social in the game these days is prearranged, you dont just walk into spindel and start XPing with people youve never seen before, you make a thread a week in advance.

[Edit]P.S. The game is actually still quiet good, but not what it used to be. And Im sure thats part nostalgia, but also part fact.

 

[Steveh]

there is still something called... having luck

nono its pure skill mate

 

[Steveh]

Void959: Can I reword it? I say: High RR people are considered too important in the game, and most causal players are left because of it.

example.
I want to be a forma 1 car driver but i just got the driver license. then i leave the driveing at all becouse i cant do what the best ones can do?
i go and learn and training then

maybe a bad example but its says what i think about the casual vs leets.

 

[Lamp]

What should GOA do ?

Scrap the EU servers and plough all its resources into the US ? Any stats comparing EU to US server populations over a 2 year period ?

What's the future for DAOC as a MMORPG ?

Rather than continue expanding it / fragmenting its infrastructure, should they go in the opposite direction, go smaller, and concentrate on the key aspects of the game and redress the RVR v low RR / newbie inbalance ? Or is the inbalance so intrinsically linked to the nature of the game that to attempt to redress it now will just kill the game entirely ?

 

[atos]

Sigh. Make the PvP areas smaller. Make the PvE areas more well equipped with betetr loot. More epic raids. Lose all petspam so the easymode realms can't farm it.

 

[Ctuchik]

maybe a bad example but its says what i think about the casual vs leets.

only diffrence from us normal ppl and the "leet" is that the "leet" have more time to spare.

yes more time spent should have its rewards but as it is now its not even funny in a sad way.

 

[Ctuchik]

Sigh. Make the PvP areas smaller. Make the PvE areas more well equipped with betetr loot. More epic raids. Lose all petspam so the easymode realms can't farm it.

and make PVE "RA's" thats what i'm missing the most. rvr gets all those abilities and most of em is completly useless in pve.

 

[Tham]

I don't play daoc at the moment because I can't, live too far away at the moment. I would play if I was back in Europe.

But at the same time, daoc experience is nothing what it used to be like, and I put this down too several things, but one of the biggest factors imo is, pve died.

I've never been a fan of PvE, the actual grind, but back when I was leveling my first chars things were so difirent................

...WORD!

 

[Rub]

I don't play daoc at the moment because I can't, live too far away at the moment. I would play if I was back in Europe.

But at the same time, daoc experience is nothing what it used to be like, and I put this down too several things, but one of the biggest factors imo is, pve died.

I've never been a fan of PvE, the actual grind, but back when I was leveling my first chars things were so difirent. PvEing wasn't really grinding then, it was grouping. XP was sometimes great and sometimes terrible, but it was never as dull as it is now. Back then you could go to Fort Atla at lower levels and find loads of other low levels (healers in cloth, hunters with no spears, some fancy fecker with a black dyed merchant cloak). Or you would go DF and inside at the entrance you would see atleast 20 odd people all sitting down, buying and selling stuff and forming groups, with the occaisonal newbie running yelling for help as 20 lilispawns chase him.

And why does all this matter? Because nowadays if your not having a laugh in RvR, or just not in the mood for it full stop, your other alternatives are solo with you buffbot in PvE, or powerlevel, or spend an hour at the ME, which are all boring and unsocial.

Everything social in the game these days is prearranged, you dont just walk into spindel and start XPing with people youve never seen before, you make a thread a week in advance.

[Edit]P.S. The game is actually still quiet good, but not what it used to be. And Im sure thats part nostalgia, but also part fact.

i find ml/dr raids social... sometimes, the ones with sharaft were good fun

 

[knighthood]

Amen to that, i was thinking of coming back but christ allmighty its seemingly impossible for me to find daoc anywhere atm . Theres a full box set on the daoc site but it allways says out of stock, which is odd cos i doubt they sell enuf to make it out of stock. Heres an idea however...

while it seems GoA etc are quite reluctant to advertise daoc, it may be an idea for people to write into computer magazines and somehow get daoc mentioned via that way. Ive noticed in every soddin feature on mmorpgs i ever read all they mention is soddin WoW , guild wars and diablo etc. Never once have i heard daoc mentioned. Saw a small featurette ijn pc zone once (which my ogre armsman was mentioned lol . go me . ) but other that that.

Im gonna give it a go, maybe i can get Games (tm) to do a feature or somethin on un-advertised games. Cos lets face it , Daoc, there isnt really anything actually like it (RvR wise) out there, and i for one dont want it to die b4 i come back (if i mean, if i can find a copy of all the expansions bah)

 

[Maeloch]

Dunno about making things easier and more accessable.

In OF towards the end the situation was pretty fucked up, you could do a /who of all 3 frontiers and get nothing but 2-3 8man grps from RvR guilds, plus 2 or 3 stealthers in odins/hw - ie no one cept any of these peeps cba or could have fun.

Now you have opposite situation, no one has any incentive to do anything, organize, or otherwise *accomplish* anything in-game. Just log on easy-mode toon, that got easy-mode toa'd, xped and camp somewhere, solo or with BB. That is endgame.

Now I realise peeps often log on just to goof about and don't want compete or to have fix 2-3 balanced fgs just so they don't get farmed by the leet brigade. But make they game too easy and it don't hold interest v long either.

Peeps are their own worst enemy, en mass they will always do things the easy way and fuck thigns up for themselves in the long run. They smelt the coffee, saw what classes are good for NF, then used easy xp and toa to roll em - now 50% of the server is sorcs and it does no one any good.

If this is alot of shit it's cos it's from work, I have a 15x5cm square window to use and can't even read what crap I write.

 

[Ctuchik]

But make they game too easy and it don't hold interest v long either.

turn it around and ur gonna have the same effect...

and noone said anything about making it to easy. all most of us want is to tone down the RA's/ToA abillities so we atleast have a slightly better chance then a snowball in hell when we face any of the "leet" rvr groups.. as it is now my money is all on that snowball....

as i said before, playing more should have its rewards, sure. but not this much.

 

[Esselinithia]

example.
I want to be a forma 1 car driver but i just got the driver license. then i leave the driveing at all becouse i cant do what the best ones can do?
i go and learn and training then

maybe a bad example but its says what i think about the casual vs leets.

steveh: Because you are nothing, but a moron. Casual people don't want to go in opted fgs in rvr, they play the game for other reason.

Your attitude is something, like "You aren't a formula 1 driver? Or even worse, you are a pedestrian? Either train and race with us, or get out the fucking streets and roads since we want to use them for racing." While forgetting, others just want to get from point A to point B.

And this kind of attitude kills the game.

 

[Esselinithia]

You don't have to turn down TOA abilities, the MAIN reason for TOA was simple: High RR people dominated the frontier, and RRs were a too big advantage. More skills you have, and more powerfull skills you have, the less important this advantage is.

The problem is: TOA was far too easy in the begining. Why? Because everyone done it. If it would be hard, long and require a lot of effort (comparable to getting RAs at high levels), most leet RVR people wouldn't get arties, MLs, etc: They have a bet6ter option.

People who can't farm RPs so quick would find TOA is the faster way to advance and can help them to play for months. For this, the difficulty of TOA should be similar to difficulty of SIDI (including the harder bosses), but should be doable. Sadly Mythic made TOA too easy, and the leet people have done it quickly.

At this point, making it harder would just give them further advantage, so they had to make it easier and faster, in essence killing all PVE end game and long term PVE in the process.

Most casual players and dedicated PVE people had one thing in common: They enjoyed PVE and the success in it, before this, and with these changes they lost something.