Danish Psychologist: “Integration of Muslims in Western Societies is not possible”

[Talivar]

IMO the problem is not the majority of muslims , its the groups that do try to force cultures to change their ways to suit them. This causes a knock on effect as people get annoyed and start to blame ALL muslims. The main problem comes from the fact you dont see the majority of muslims telling the minority to stop , thus giving the impression they all agree. Some examples are in UK how the muslims wanted Sharias law to be enabled for them while they live here and how some towns have reported to stop putting up christmas decorations in public areas as it offends some of the more hardcore muslims. All it would take imo is for the majority of the muslims to publicly voice the fact these wishes are the wishes of the few and not the many and people would not be so quick to turn on them.

 

[Olgaline]

I have to agree with everything Vintersorg has said so far. Especially this part

you mean like christian missionaries do allover the world, and have done so for centuries ?

 

[Gorbachioo]

Right...right...

So your answer to this is?

Keep muslims where they are?
Keep people in their own countries for good?
No immigration at all?

All those scenarios create the anti-ME thing i said.

If you want to create a tolerant and a good natured community, you need to mix things and make it work.

My answer is keep muslims where they are. Take in people who adapt. This does not create an "anti-ME thing" because if people have no contact with eachother then they wont get to hate eachother. Have you ever heard the saying "good fences make good neighbours" ? Its so true.

See there was a period in finnish history when we really were tolerant. Right before immigration became an issue. But now that we've experienced it, racism is on the rise again.

This madness has to stop, or there will be severe consequences and my fear is that it will be the innocent immigrants who will suffer the most.

you mean like christian missionaries do allover the world, and have done so for centuries ?

Oh come on now. You know thats shitty argument. Theres a big difference between missionaries and normal citizens.

 

[Cemeterygates]

I have not read the article, nor have i read this guys book but it is very much a fact that atleast SOME muslims have a thing for throwing their weight around (i dont like that part of your culture it offends me so you should change it to suit me) well sorry mate but tough shit, learn to accept it or fuck off...no?...if you wish to move to a different country fine, but you go by the laws of the land. But we have lots of PC pussies in power so not much chance of them taking such a stance against it really is there.

To say it's impossible, well i wouldn't like to say, i think difficult may be a more accurate statement.

 

[dub]

You can doubt as much as you want

you do realize that all i have to do disprove you and dr troll is to provide 1 integrated muslim ?

 

[Platin]

you do realize that all i have to do disprove you and dr troll is to provide 1 integrated muslim ?

How do you figure that?

Maybe you should the article again

 

[Platin]

IMO the problem is not the majority of muslims , its the groups that do try to force cultures to change their ways to suit them. This causes a knock on effect as people get annoyed and start to blame ALL muslims. The main problem comes from the fact you dont see the majority of muslims telling the minority to stop , thus giving the impression they all agree. Some examples are in UK how the muslims wanted Sharias law to be enabled for them while they live here and how some towns have reported to stop putting up christmas decorations in public areas as it offends some of the more hardcore muslims. All it would take imo is for the majority of the muslims to publicly voice the fact these wishes are the wishes of the few and not the many and people would not be so quick to turn on them.

How do you know it's the wishes of the few?

 

[Gorbachioo]

you do realize that all i have to do disprove you and dr troll is to provide 1 integrated muslim ?

Hes talking about muslims as a whole. Ofcourse there are individuals who make it but as a group it is very unlikely that they'll ever reach the same success as white people in europe/many other immigrant groups.

 

[Wonk]

you mean like christian missionaries do allover the world, and have done so for centuries ?

I've got no idea mate, however I know how things are where I live.

 

[old.Tohtori]

My answer is keep muslims where they are. Take in people who adapt. This does not create an "anti-ME thing" because if people have no contact with eachother then they wont get to hate eachother. Have you ever heard the saying "good fences make good neighbours" ? Its so true.

Yes, ignorance is bliss.

Look at the US, they don't have misconceptions about muslims or middle-eastern people at all.

And how the hell do you suggest we test who will adapt?

Give them a year test period and then send 'em packing with nothing?

 

[Gorbachioo]

Yes, ignorance is bliss.

Look at the US, they don't have misconceptions about muslims or middle-eastern people at all.

And how the hell do you suggest we test who will adapt?

Give them a year test period and then send 'em packing with nothing?

Ofcourse things like 9/11 have nothing to do with that. You know its not the same thing.

And well...... yea. Something like that. If they dont respect the rules of the land they can fuck off. The same applies to us in foreign countries so why not them?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ofcourse things like 9/11 have nothing to do with that. You know its not the same thing.

And well...... yea. Something like that. If they dont respect the rules of the land they can fuck off. The same applies to us in foreign countries so why not them?

And you're saying that they wouldn't have stricter rules because of this?

Jaywalk and out you go?

That's not integration.

 

[Gorbachioo]

And you're saying that they wouldn't have stricter rules because of this?

Jaywalk and out you go?

That's not integration.

If stricter rules mean getting thrown out of country if you rape someone then yes. (instead of not getting jail time at all but a 5000e fine)

Some individuals can not be integrated. Would you hire an immigrant with a background in violent crime? That kind of a person is a drain on society and in no way deserves to leech of society for the rest of his life. Off they go. Better luck in africa.

 

[Vintersorg]

IMO the problem is not the majority of muslims , its the groups that do try to force cultures to change their ways to suit them. This causes a knock on effect as people get annoyed and start to blame ALL muslims. The main problem comes from the fact you dont see the majority of muslims telling the minority to stop , thus giving the impression they all agree. Some examples are in UK how the muslims wanted Sharias law to be enabled for them while they live here and how some towns have reported to stop putting up christmas decorations in public areas as it offends some of the more hardcore muslims. All it would take imo is for the majority of the muslims to publicly voice the fact these wishes are the wishes of the few and not the many and people would not be so quick to turn on them.

Come and live in the Belgian towns of Schaerbeek and Molenbeek and check how long you will keep on believing the stuff you said. The Muslims over there expect the autochtones to adapt to them...And it's not a minority.

 

[Talivar]

I can only judge the areas i see problem is humans at base level still have animal and pack like tendencys so often the many can be swept along by the overpowering and loud voices of the few.

 

[old.Tohtori]

If stricter rules mean getting thrown out of country if you rape someone then yes. (instead of not getting jail time at all but a 5000e fine)

Some individuals can not be integrated. Would you hire an immigrant with a background in violent crime? That kind of a person is a drain on society and in no way deserves to leech of society for the rest of his life. Off they go. Better luck in africa.

Alright, so you simply want to enforce a more strict, but not a "ultimate" law of old school(talking viking style) deportation?

Murder, rape, etc, going over say a year long sentence and you're out?

Some individuals ofcourse can't be. Some individuals of OUR community should be thrown out too. That's given.

I would hire anyone regardless of their background if they did their time and have shown that they have been "clean" for a period of time.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Alright, so you simply want to enforce a more strict, but not a "ultimate" law of old school(talking viking style) deportation?

Murder, rape, etc, going over say a year long sentence and you're out?

Some individuals ofcourse can't be. Some individuals of OUR community should be thrown out too. That's given.

I would hire anyone regardless of their background if they did their time and have shown that they have been "clean" for a period of time.

Something like that.

And i think that is exactly why you're not in a position to hire anyone. Regardless of what you think, no one, and i mean no one, is going to hire an immigrant with criminal background. It just doest happen.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Something like that.

And i think that is exactly why you're not in a position to hire anyone. Regardless of what you think, no one, and i mean no one, is going to hire an immigrant with criminal background. It just doest happen.

I guess you've read all the company infos on all their backgrounds then?

Afterall you're speaking of a 100% not gonna happen situation.

The reason why i'm not in a position to hire anyone is because i'm not in possession of a company or in a resource managing position, nor do i want to be.

In any case, if that law were to pass, it wouldn't stop the problem any more. People would still come here, people would still do crimes.

 

[Gorbachioo]

I guess you've read all the company infos on all their backgrounds then?

Afterall you're speaking of a 100% not gonna happen situation.

The reason why i'm not in a position to hire anyone is because i'm not in possession of a company or in a resource managing position, nor do i want to be.

In any case, if that law were to pass, it wouldn't stop the problem any more. People would still come here, people would still do crimes.

It would stop people from repeating crimes which would decrease the number of crimes by a significant amount. It would also serve as a warning.

 

[old.Tohtori]

It would stop people from repeating crimes which would decrease the number of crimes by a significant amount. It would also serve as a warning.

Are you actually claiming that the integration problem is only due to criminals?

 

[CorNokZ]

How I've felt reading this thread..

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yeah but you're still a:

 

[Huntingtons]

How I've felt reading this thread..

same feeling i get when i read the vigilante thread. -.-

 

[aika]

its the same like trying to integrate a 12th century european man into a 21th century european society.

 

[Fafnir]

one of the major problems i've seen is that atleast in sweden we bunch them up in the same place. They should be more spread out, so they cant go on living their "normal" life.

And we have to stop looking at eachother as different races, we are all humans.

 

[Platin]

one of the major problems i've seen is that atleast in sweden we bunch them up in the same place. They should be more spread out, so they cant go on living their "normal" life.

And we have to stop looking at eachother as different races, we are all humans.

One of the major problems is that we as a country of 9 million, take in about 100 000 per year. That's more than 1% of the total population each year. It's impossible to integrate that many, that fast. Especielly when the majority comes from countries where the most common values and principles are almost in direct conflict with our values, it's an impossible equation.

 

[noblok]

I've got to agree with this scientist's views.
I'm living in the periphery of Brussels. Some of the towns integrated by Brussels are full of Muslims (Schaerbeek for example, has about 70% Muslims). When you enter in those parts of town as an European, they look at you strangely (and generally with strong dislike) in their eyes, or you get insulted because you don't belong there.

Do you actually live in Schaerbeek/Molenbeek? I know people who have lived there their entire life without encountering any problems. In fact: all people I know who live there never had any problems and everyone who keeps complaining about these areas invariable comes from the periphery of Brussels (i.e. the towns surrounding it, which are mainly inhabited by middle class, white people).

 

[Vintersorg]

Do you actually live in Schaerbeek/Molenbeek? I know people who have lived there their entire life without encountering any problems. In fact: all people I know who live there never had any problems and everyone who keeps complaining about these areas invariable comes from the periphery of Brussels (i.e. the towns surrounding it, which are mainly inhabited by middle class, white people).

Yes, I have lived in Schaerbeek. My wife is born in Schaerbeek and has lived there for most of her life.
We left it because of all the Muslims causing trouble, some of them even telling us to "get out of their town"
You have to keep in mind that there's still an "untouched" part of Schaerbeek and Molenbeek where the autochtones tend to live, but that part of town gets smaller and smaller.

 

[Fafnir]

One of the major problems is that we as a country of 9 million, take in about 100 000 per year. That's more than 1% of the total population each year. It's impossible to integrate that many, that fast. Especielly when the majority comes from countries where the most common values and principles are almost in direct conflict with our values, it's an impossible equation.

Where do you find thoose numbers?

The year 2 000 we had 58 659 immigrants, while 34 091 sweds moved to other countries. With 100.000 a year we would be more than 9 million people here. And without all our immigrants, alot of hospitals would be forced to close since we dont have enough swedish workers willing to educate themselves and take such a job.

And without immigrants we would still be a backwater country, i'm proud of my heritige, got wallons, kozak, german, scottish and saami ancestors, i'm swedish and proud, and know where i come from.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Where do you find thoose numbers?

The year 2 000 we had 58 659 immigrants, while 34 091 sweds moved to other countries. With 100.000 a year we would be more than 9 million people here. And without all our immigrants, alot of hospitals would be forced to close since we dont have enough swedish workers willing to educate themselves and take such a job.

And without immigrants we would still be a backwater country, i'm proud of my heritige, got wallons, kozak, german, scottish and saami ancestors, i'm swedish and proud, and know where i come from.

Thats what they keep telling us. Although the one thing that no one ever mentions is how unpopular professions became less unpopular before mass immigration begun -their wage was increased. But now that we have all the cheap labor we need theres no need to thank those (for example) hard working nurses with bigger paychecks. Just replace them with immigrants!

Now ofcourse we cant give every shitty profession a wage increase because we simply cant afford it So to maintain our quality of life some sort of immigration is needed BUT not like now. How would you feel if foreign workers kept your paycheck down? It probably wouldnt make you less xenophobic...

And i have to say i see no reason why sweden would be a backwater country without immigrants. Yes immigrants had their share in post war economic growth but thats it really...