Danish Psychologist: “Integration of Muslims in Western Societies is not possible”

[dub]

Danish Psychologist: ?Integration of Muslims in Western Societies is not possible? | EuropeNews


So does he have a point? Should we stop taking muslims in?

he does a study on 150 people in youth jail and then goes on to conclude about muslims in general .....

tbh he wouldnt even qualify as board troll

 

[Olgaline]

it's only news becuase he's danish,
and we all know danes hate muslims!

 

[Olgaline]

You have white boy chavs, we have Arab & Somalli Chavs too.. I'm not kidding

They are by far the worst of the Chavs here in Copenhagen, when it comes to crime

there fixxored it.

and yes, I fucking hate some of the wannabe Gangters kids here "live close to Gellerup" and I fucking hate listening
to thier pis speaker mobile phone yallah-rap I just want to smack them, but I wouldnt feel any different if it was white boys or blacks.
it's the attitude, no the skin colour or religiouse back ground

 

[Imgormiel]

Put a big fat wedge of some Aebelkage in their mouths and tell em all to stfu tbfh!

 

[old.Tohtori]

To think, gorb called me a racist at one point :lol:

On topic, silly scientist, he's wrong, integration is a two way street.

 

[CorNokZ]

there fixxored it.

I was perhabs being a bit quick with my comment there, but I don't think you fixed it

 

[Bugz]

It's the attitude, no the skin colour or religious back ground

This.

End of thread.

 

[CorNokZ]

Atleast here in Copenhagen the attitude is often followed by religious views..

 

[Gorbachioo]

right now we'r getting somewhere,so do you belive, that if took the same group of people,
and not stick them into ghetto's and the low levels of society, they'd still end up in unemployed and in prison ?

or

is it becuase we in the western society did a shitty job of integrating the refugees we got from the midle east and somallia ?
also did we take in far more than we could effectively integrate ? and was it a bad idea to alocate them into ghettos ?

See If Islamic/midle eastern Cultur "wich yes, is heavilly influenced by islam" is the root of the problem, well then,
social class, income and education would all be irrellevent. so if you can proove to me, that this is an issue despite class, location and education,
if you can isolate Islamic/midle eastern cultur as the Only! common denominator. then I'll review my opinion, but well, lets say i dout that'll happen.

Why is it that we only see these problems with muslim immigrants? I'll ask again, have you EVER heard anyone complain about chinese or indian immigrants?

Obviously we did a shitty job at integrating them - just look at the mess - but the problem here is that its JUST the muslims. The indians arent making noise. the thais arent making noise. Just the muslims. We have not treated these groups any different than we have treated muslims. Yet they thrive, or atleast stay away from prisons, while muslims are giving a bad name to to all immigrants.

People here can scream racism all they want but theres just no excuse for this - Muslims (again whatever the true reason may be, culture or religion) are the biggest problem and being PC about it wont change anything.

he does a study on 150 people in youth jail and then goes on to conclude about muslims in general .....

tbh he wouldnt even qualify as board troll

I suggest you read it again. He also gives some very compelling statistics.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Why is it that we only see these problems with muslim immigrants? I'll ask again, have you EVER heard anyone complain about chinese or indian immigrants?

Well, how much bigger is the muslim immigration % compared to chinese or indian immigrants?

In the UK, the indian(as i remember it) population has been a LOOONG time, so they are integrated already.

Otherwise, the larger the group, the bigger the "issues" as there's more possible rotten apples.

What are you more likely to read in the paper?;

Muslim man raped...

or

Caucasian male raped...

The first, because that's "news".

 

[Gorbachioo]

Well, how much bigger is the muslim immigration % compared to chinese or indian immigrants?

In the UK, the indian(as i remember it) population has been a LOOONG time, so they are integrated already.

Otherwise, the larger the group, the bigger the "issues" as there's more possible rotten apples.

What are you more likely to read in the paper?;

Muslim man raped...

or

Caucasian male raped...

The first, because that's "news".

I dont have any numbers, but i see no reason why (atleast in the UK) the indian population would be significantly smaller or why it would have had better chances to integrate. And why do you think that the indian population has been in the UK longer than the muslim population?

What the headlines are is irrelevant because im not talking about them. Im talking about statistics. But im sure you know that atleast in Finland the media flat out lying for immigrants. Helsingin sanomat has posted news about crimes without mentioning that perpetrators were foreigners (which obviously is an important description to make in a country with as few foreigners as Finland)

 

[Bugz]

Arghhh Gorb you are so fuckin ignorant.

P.S - without stats you fail. 'Oh i don't have stats but this is how it is.' lol.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I dont have any numbers, but i see no reason why (atleast in the UK) the indian population would be significantly smaller or why it would have had better chances to integrate. And why do you think that the indian population has been in the UK longer than the muslim population?

What the headlines are is irrelevant because im not talking about them. Im talking about statistics. But im sure you know that atleast in Finland the media flat out lying for immigrants. Helsingin sanomat has posted news about crimes without mentioning that perpetrators were foreigners (which obviously is an important description to make in a country with as few foreigners as Finland)

First part; the indians have been integrated because they had a chance. Also due to english indian relations in the past. Indians have been in the UK longer(correct me if i'm wrong uk peeps) due to slavery? Wasn't the majority indian anyway?

In any case, yes, finnish press often eaves out what race of person did something, which is how it should be if you want to integrate people. Treat them equal, in good and bad. Doesn't matter if it was a black, white, blue or yellow man who broke that window.

Media though, also hops on a racecard like it's the last hooker on earth whenever they can.

 

[dub]

I suggest you read it again. He also gives some very compelling statistics.

i suggest you try read it again also , the guy is generalizing from 150 individuals he talked with and then draws conclusions with regards to the 1.500.000.000 muslims worldwide , not even the average board troll is that stupid

 

[Raven]

Gorba is.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

My reading of the article in question is slightly different. I think he's saying integration of hardline / dogmatic muslims is impossible which is correct - by the very fact they are hardliners and will not bend, or flex, or adapt to anyone elses culture (no matter whether that's the UK's or another country) is doomed to failure. The same could be said about hardcore christians in india, or some of the african tribal religions in the middle east!

I agree with him on that point, but not that the moderate/everyday muslims can't integrate - i've seen quite a number that do integrate very well into our society and have nothing against them.

In fact, i'd go as far as saying i'm quite pleased to see many migrant Muslims recognising that they can be religious and integrate well into the UK.

I think it comes down to realising that your way is not necessarily the only way to do things and adapting to new circumstances (often without compromising the core tenets of their ideals/religions).

 

[Gorbachioo]

Arghhh Gorb you are so fuckin ignorant.

P.S - without stats you fail. 'Oh i don't have stats but this is how it is.' lol.

You just officially lost. Again.

First part; the indians have been integrated because they had a chance. Also due to english indian relations in the past. Indians have been in the UK longer(correct me if i'm wrong uk peeps) due to slavery? Wasn't the majority indian anyway?

In any case, yes, finnish press often eaves out what race of person did something, which is how it should be if you want to integrate people. Treat them equal, in good and bad. Doesn't matter if it was a black, white, blue or yellow man who broke that window.

Media though, also hops on a racecard like it's the last hooker on earth whenever they can.

"Because they had a chance" ? What the hell does that mean? Most of middle-east was a british colony after ww1 and Pakistan was a part of british India. There are no historical differences. And most of the immigrants that live in the UK today came after ww2.

Just about everyone else has admitted that muslims are the main problem. I suggest you do that too so we can talk about why.

And no, that is not what the finnish press should do. They have no right to lie about the implications of such a massive decision like immigration.

i suggest you try read it again also , the guy is generalizing from 150 individuals he talked with and then draws conclusions with regards to the 1.500.000.000 muslims worldwide , not even the average board troll is that stupid

Just read it again. You're either misunderstanding him on purpose or then you just dont get it.

 

[Gorbachioo]

My reading of the article in question is slightly different. I think he's saying integration of hardline / dogmatic muslims is impossible which is correct - by the very fact they are hardliners and will not bend, or flex, or adapt to anyone elses culture (no matter whether that's the UK's or another country) is doomed to failure. The same could be said about hardcore christians in india, or some of the african tribal religions in the middle east!

I agree with him on that point, but not that the moderate/everyday muslims can't integrate - i've seen quite a number that do integrate very well into our society and have nothing against them.

In fact, i'd go as far as saying i'm quite pleased to see many migrant Muslims recognising that they can be religious and integrate well into the UK.

I think it comes down to realising that your way is not necessarily the only way to do things and adapting to new circumstances (often without compromising the core tenets of their ideals/religions).

As i said, hes not talking about individuals. Hes talking about muslims as a group. Naturally many of them integrate - but too many do not (because too many of them are "hardliners") And his opinion is that that can not be fixed --> his opinion is that muslims as a group can not be integrated.

 

[old.Tohtori]

"Because they had a chance" ? What the hell does that mean? Most of middle-east was a british colony after ww1 and Pakistan was a part of british India. There are no historical differences. And most of the immigrants that live in the UK today came after ww2.

Just about everyone else has admitted that muslims are the main problem. I suggest you do that too so we can talk about why.

And no, that is not what the finnish press should do. They have no right to lie about the implications of such a massive decision like immigration.

BEcause they had a chance to integrate. Ergo, give muslims the same chance.

Just about everyone HASN'T agreed to muslims being the main problem, and if everyone thought shooting yourself in the head is a good idea, i would disagree too. That's called freedom of speech.

Yes it is, crime is a crime no matter who does it. If they say "muslim did this", the only reason to do so is to bash a race/religion of people or to get higher news-effect.

 

[Bugz]

Just read it again. You're either misunderstanding him on purpose or then you just dont get it.

"He based his research on hundreds of hours of therapy with 150 young Muslims in the Copenhagen youth jail. "

I see.

Oh and cherry picked stats.

Fail.

 

[Gorbachioo]

BEcause they had a chance to integrate. Ergo, give muslims the same chance.

Just about everyone HASN'T agreed to muslims being the main problem, and if everyone thought shooting yourself in the head is a good idea, i would disagree too. That's called freedom of speech.

Yes it is, crime is a crime no matter who does it. If they say "muslim did this", the only reason to do so is to bash a race/religion of people or to get higher news-effect.

Muslims have not been discriminated any more than indians have been. Atleast not before 9/11. So that doesnt cut it.

A crime is a crime no matter who does it BUT voters have a right to know how immigrants are behaving.

Bugz and dub: I fail to see why 150 is not enough in this case. Given the nature of the study.

 

[Bugz]

There are 1,200,000,000 muslims in the world according to some estimates.

You are saying that 150 is okey given the circumstances?

Furthermore, those 150 are all offenders, and the study takes no note of those who are not offenders, but may have integrated successfully.

Haha. Okey.

Furthermore, you just shown that Dub is right and in fact you should read it again, to take your own advice.

You're full of shit Gorb.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Muslims have not been discriminated any more than indians have been. Atleast not before 9/11. So that doesnt cut it.

A crime is a crime no matter who does it BUT voters have a right to know how immigrants are behaving.

Missed the points completely.

A good 200 years ago someone would've said "indians can't be integrated", and they were.

Sam goes here, now they say muslims can't be itnegrated, and in 200 years they would most likely be.

Then they'd say it about martians.

Voters may havea right to hear how immigrants act, but that shouldn't be used in any other case then a massive immigrant event(like a riot) or if the race has any relevance.

It's actually people like YOU taht should be studied as you're the one who's harming the integration probably more then muslim crimes are.

 

[crispy]

Muslims have not been discriminated any more than indians have been. Atleast not before 9/11. So that doesnt cut it.

A crime is a crime no matter who does it BUT voters have a right to know how immigrants are behaving.

Bugz and dub: I fail to see why 150 is not enough in this case. Given the nature of the study.

This is idiotic. He picks 150 people from prison and conclude 'muslims cant be integrated'. Please tell me, don't you see anything wrong with this kind of statistics?

 

[Olgaline]

Why is it that we only see these problems with muslim immigrants? I'll ask again, have you EVER heard anyone complain about chinese or indian immigrants? .

Yes I have!

Obviously we did a shitty job at integrating them - just look at the mess - but the problem here is that its JUST the muslims. The indians arent making noise. the thais arent making noise. Just the muslims. We have not treated these groups any different than we have treated muslims. Yet they thrive, or atleast stay away from prisons, while muslims are giving a bad name to to all immigrants..

the majority of Indian imigrants in europe actually tend to come from midle to high educational backgrounds, so if ytour going to compare, then compare them to muslims of equal socail class and education, els your comparison fails! And again, I'll pose you the question you keep avoiding, Do you truelly belive it's due to their Religiouse belief?

If you truelly believe that Islamic culture is to blame then Make the argument that, No matter class, education or wealth, youngsters from this background will have an increased likelyhood of ending up in jail, compared to those of a different heritage.

People here can scream racism all they want but theres just no excuse for this - Muslims (again whatever the true reason may be, culture or religion) are the biggest problem and being PC about it wont change anything..

I'll stand by my assesment that you and alot of people "and unfortunatly yes it is alot" Cant differnturate between, religion and race. so yes!
I do think your views are racist. becuase chances are, you'll treat any Arab kid with the same mistrust and agression, no matter his religiouse belief.

and this really clinches it for me

We should not compare them with white people. We should compare them with other immigrants. And the fact is that muslims are always on the top spots when it comes to crime/unemployment etc.

If your going to look at a social problem, then look at it's entirety, and from that conclude the most logical explanation, and them being Muslim bloody well isnt it.

Now had you argued that due to, socail, economical and educational imbalances, that young teens in ghettos, of whome the majority are of muslim background tend to turn to radicalism in all aspects socail, cultural and religiouse topics, Then we can discuss it.

Hell if you even wanted to discuss that social imballance mixed with religion can lead to radicalism, and that this can lead to social and cultural problems then I'm with you...But to state that it's specificly Islam then yes we have a problem.

I live preaty close to a ghetto, and I can tell you, the christian, hindu, and chinease kids are jsut as bad, the muslim kids are just in a vast majority.

 

[Gorbachioo]

There are 1,200,000,000 muslims in the world according to some estimates.

You are saying that 150 is okey given the circumstances?

Furthermore, those 150 are all offenders, and the study takes no note of those who are not offenders, but may have integrated successfully.

Haha. Okey.

Furthermore, you just shown that Dub is right and in fact you should read it again, to take your own advice.

You're full of shit Gorb.

"In his book, Nicolai Sennels shares a psychological perspective of this Muslim Culture, its relationship to anger, handling emotions and its religion."
The very famous politician, Naser Khader, who is Muslim and the author of the bestseller “Honor and Shame”, wrote a review of my book and stated that it should be “obligatory reading for students, social workers and teachers.” Jyllands-Posten, the brave newspaper that first published the Mohammed cartoons, calls the book “an original piece of pioneer "

If his methods were not scientific enough then i dont think this would have gotten enough attention let alone praise from some muslims.

His aim was to study how islam affects the offenders thinking. If similar patterns can be found in most of the test subjects then its safe to say that islam is a major contributing factor why muslims are doing so many crimes.

Why is this not good enough?

 

[Aoami]

For me it's all to do with religion.

Islam is a very different religion compared to say Sikhism, Hinduism or Judaism which contain large groups of people who have immgrated from their native lands. The three former relgions are much more pacifist than Islam, and as a result religion hasn't been an issue. Obviously there were other issues when they first immigrated, racism being the obvious one, but that was abuse about skin colour, not religion.

Islam is too hardline to be integrated into Western Socities built on Christian traditions, because many muslims feel they should be able to bring their laws with them when they immigrate, which is not fair. I am fully aware that the majority of Muslim's just go about their business, but it does seem that the Muslim's with the loudest voices talk the most shit.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Missed the points completely.

A good 200 years ago someone would've said "indians can't be integrated", and they were.

Sam goes here, now they say muslims can't be itnegrated, and in 200 years they would most likely be.

Then they'd say it about martians.

Voters may havea right to hear how immigrants act, but that shouldn't be used in any other case then a massive immigrant event(like a riot) or if the race has any relevance.

It's actually people like YOU taht should be studied as you're the one who's harming the integration probably more then muslim crimes are.

Well the guy who said that was obviously wrong.. and?

And perhaps muslims will be integrated in 200 years. But that doesnt really comfort me at all. Does that sound like a good argument to you?

Dont use the word race. Theres no reason to. We're talking about cultural differences. And if people from a certain culture make more crimes than others than the rest have the right to know about that.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Yes I have!

the majority of Indian imigrants in europe actually tend to come from midle to high educational backgrounds, so if ytour going to compare, then compare them to muslims of equal socail class and education, els your comparison fails! And again, I'll pose you the question you keep avoiding, Do you truelly belive it's due to their Religiouse belief?

If you truelly believe that Islamic culture is to blame then Make the argument that, No matter class, education or wealth, youngsters from this background will have an increased likelyhood of ending up in jail, compared to those of a different heritage.

I'll stand by my assesment that you and alot of people "and unfortunatly yes it is alot" Cant differnturate between, religion and race. so yes!
I do think your views are racist. becuase chances are, you'll treat any Arab kid with the same mistrust and agression, no matter his religiouse belief.

and this really clinches it for me

If your going to look at a social problem, then look at it's entirety, and from that conclude the most logical explanation, and them being Muslim bloody well isnt it.

Now had you argued that due to, socail, economical and educational imbalances, that young teens in ghettos, of whome the majority are of muslim background tend to turn to radicalism in all aspects socail, cultural and religiouse topics, Then we can discuss it.

Hell if you even wanted to discuss that social imballance mixed with religion can lead to radicalism, and that this can lead to social and cultural problems then I'm with you...But to state that it's specificly Islam then yes we have a problem.

I live preaty close to a ghetto, and I can tell you, the christian, hindu, and chinease kids are jsut as bad, the muslim kids are just in a vast majority.

Ive already made the argument that muslims have a higher chance of ending up in jail. Ofcourse education etc affect these numbers but they_do_not_explain why muslims are always at the top of the lists. Why would turkish immigrants be any less educated than indians? Or iranians for that matter. You keep bringing up the social differences but they just arent there. I see no difference in any of these aspects between turkish and indian immigrants.

I have never said anything about race so stop talking about it for christ sakes. Im talking about culture and religion. Race has never been the issue here but yet you keep bringing it up. Are you that desperate to make look like a racist even though ive never said anything that makes me one?

Your personal experiences can not be seen in the statistics. A higher percentage of muslims do crime. Simple as that.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well the guy who said that was obviously wrong.. and?

And perhaps muslims will be integrated in 200 years. But that doesnt really comfort me at all. Does that sound like a good argument to you?

Dont use the word race. Theres no reason to. We're talking about cultural differences. And if people from a certain culture make more crimes than others than the rest have the right to know about that.

200 years is just a "example timeline", more like 50 years or so.

Race, religion, cultural difference...same sh*t, different package.

They don't do "more crimes", they get reported more by the media.

Two drunks fighting isn't news, a muslim beating up a christian is.