Danish Psychologist: “Integration of Muslims in Western Societies is not possible”

[Olgaline]

and the majority of inmates in american prisons are black or hispanic,
so are you telling me thats due to thier skin colour ?

 

[Gorbachioo]

200 years is just a "example timeline", more like 50 years or so.

Race, religion, cultural difference...same sh*t, different package.

They don't do "more crimes", they get reported more by the media.

Two drunks fighting isn't news, a muslim beating up a christian is.

Aaaaaaaahahahahahaah......... omghahaahahlolololozzzizizizihihihkekekelolol.

Best one yet. So now you're saying that muslims dont actually do more crimes, they're just picked on by the media? Ahahah. Thanks man. Made my day.

and the majority of inmates in american prisons are black or hispanic,
so are you telling me thats due to thier skin colour ?

Euh..... no..? Why would you think that im telling you that? I have never said anything about a) race b) black and hispanic people in america so why - oh why - would you think im trying to tell you that?

Or was this just another shitty attempt to make me look like a racist?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Aaaaaaaahahahahahaah......... omghahaahahlolololozzzizizizihihihkekekelolol.

Best one yet. So now you're saying that muslims dont actually do more crimes, they're just picked on by the media? Ahahah. Thanks man. Made my day.

Yeah, that's what i said.

Good bye now.

 

[dub]

"In his book, Nicolai Sennels shares a psychological perspective of this Muslim Culture, its relationship to anger, handling emotions and its religion."
The very famous politician, Naser Khader, who is Muslim and the author of the bestseller “Honor and Shame”, wrote a review of my book and stated that it should be “obligatory reading for students, social workers and teachers.” Jyllands-Posten, the brave newspaper that first published the Mohammed cartoons, calls the book “an original piece of pioneer "

If his methods were not scientific enough then i dont think this would have gotten enough attention let alone praise from some muslims.

His aim was to study how islam affects the offenders thinking. If similar patterns can be found in most of the test subjects then its safe to say that islam is a major contributing factor why muslims are doing so many crimes.

Why is this not good enough?

if what he had done based on his study was to conclude merely that not only social and economic factors but also cultural factors is important it would be fine ( albeit it would hardly be news ), thats what he can conclude from a comparison study of this kind covering criminal youth with different ethnic background.

but to sound off the horn and claim that "integration of muslims in western societies is not possible" is not only factually false , but is not in any way an assertion that is possible to make based on the research he has done , furthermore i might add that the idea that there is such a thing as an quintessential muslim culture wich is implicit in his statements is naive.

now there might be many reasons for him choosing to draw these exaggerated and unfounded conclusions , personally i believe its because he saw a chance to sell some copies of the book by trolling , another might be that he have a political agenda , or a combination

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

it does seem that the Muslim's with the loudest voices talk the most shit.

True, but it doesn't just apply to Muslims. Listen to any group of friends debating something in a pub - the loudest one is usually the one that has the least substance to their point.

 

[old.Tohtori]

True, but it doesn't just apply to Muslims. Listen to any group of friends debating something in a pub - the loudest one is usually the one that has the least substance to their point.

Hey, look at me even! I talk utter bullsh*t and post the most :lol:

 

[Ezteq]

sorry but i didnt read the whole thread (too damn long for me mama) anyhoo i was just wondering, why do people have to intergrate?

Ok so i understand that it is just common sense to learn the language of a country you are living in say if you need medical help or something or so you know that you are being treated fairly but aside from that if people want to live in their own little spheres then why not?

So they have their things and everyone else has their things and if everyone did that and stopped trying to impose beliefs and stuff on eachother couldnt we all just bump along merrily? I mean obviously there are some elements which you couldnt really carry out in another country but youd just have to sacrifice that for living there, no one forces you to live in a certain country (for instance i wouldnt move to an islamic country and then start up a bacon sanger and whisky shop and i dont think muslims should start practicing public stonings in countries where its not acceptable)

i mean just how intergrated do people want immigrants to be? are we talking just a little so that everyone can co-exist or do they want everyone to "be the same" because hell, I'm english was born here as were hell knows how many of the generations of my relations but i'm not a christian and i live differently to many others in society, should i intergrate too?

just something that i was wondering about really

 

[Platin]

I think the guy's talking out of his arse. Sure there are SOME Muslims that are trouble-makers. But this doesn't mean all Muslims are impossible to integrate into western society. Yet another example of xenohpobic ignorance.

Wow, you haven't even read a page of his book and you're rejecting his arguments with the normal clichés.

 

[Platin]

Right, because this is clearly a religion issue!?
/..plants head on table!

wow they found a danish guy willing to say this, really!?
wonder if this had been news if he was say norwegien..

I bet you the book is full of social stereo types, and it must be the fact that they are muslims, and not the fact that most muslims in denmark live generally in low income areas and ghettos, most come from historic fugetive back grounds ect and so on...No! it must be that theya re muslims!

Really!?

cultural ? sure, middel eastern ? sure, but muslim...really? Really!?!?

sod it cba*

this is jsut as retared as blaming Denmark in general or say Anders fogh for the muhammed pics.
I can Understand why a muslim would be offended, but then be mad at the sorce "that would be the news paper that printed it" yet amazingly...well...you get the general point, oh and i dont even like Anders fjøh!

His arguments are based on a common denominator, if you got a better explanation to the phenomenons, maybe you should write a book.

 

[Platin]

read whats being said, and in it's context, not what you want it to be,
I said could it be cultural sure, could it be geografical, sure , I actually never said that any where to blame, or did that slip your comprihension ?


you need to look at things in their entirety,

so here's a break down,
Statement 1: young European muslims commint more crimes due to thier choice of religion.
Statement 2: young muslims commint more crimes due to social circumstances.

now wich would you deduct to be the most likely ?

Actually, cultural differences has lead to wars, so why couldn't it lead to crimes?

 

[Platin]

he does a study on 150 people in youth jail and then goes on to conclude about muslims in general .....

tbh he wouldnt even qualify as board troll

Actually, it's considered to be qualitative interviews. A comparison would be: If you write a bachelor thesis 4-5 interviews is enough(2 months), if you write a master-thesis it would require maybe the double amount(4-5 months), while a phd-thesis would maybe require 50-100 (3-4 years). So I would say his empirical material is pretty good. Maybe you should read the book before you make any assumptions or judge his findings.

 

[TheBinarySurfer]

Hey, look at me even! I talk utter bullsh*t and post the most :lol:

Ironic that you were the one to post that Tohtori

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ironic that you were the one to post that Tohtori

It was afterall, kind of the point

 

[Bugz]

Actually, it's considered to be qualitative interviews. A comparison would be: If you write a bachelor thesis 4-5 interviews is enough(2 months), if you write a master-thesis it would require maybe the double amount(4-5 months), while a phd-thesis would maybe require 50-100 (3-4 years). So I would say his empirical material is pretty good. Maybe you should read the book before you make any assumptions or judge his findings.

There are certain situations where quantitative takes priority over qualitative. I believe this is one of them.

 

[dub]

Actually, it's considered to be qualitative interviews. A comparison would be: If you write a bachelor thesis 4-5 interviews is enough(2 months), if you write a master-thesis it would require maybe the double amount(4-5 months), while a phd-thesis would maybe require 50-100 (3-4 years). So I would say his empirical material is pretty good. Maybe you should read the book before you make any assumptions or judge his findings.

hmm first of all i think you quoted a wrong post.

second , yes his interviews are what you call qualitative interviews , he does them on two different ethnic groups and then compare the two sets.

third , as i allready explained these "qualitative interviews" still has no link or back up for the broad and sweeping statements he makes about muslims and muslim culture in general.

 

[Vintersorg]

I've got to agree with this scientist's views.
I'm living in the periphery of Brussels. Some of the towns integrated by Brussels are full of Muslims (Schaerbeek for example, has about 70% Muslims). When you enter in those parts of town as an European, they look at you strangely (and generally with strong dislike) in their eyes, or you get insulted because you don't belong there.
Hell, in some sides of Molenbeek, the Police doesn't dare to come out of their cars, because they are afraid of the local Muslim populace
There are parts of Brussels full with Chinese, black people, Polish, Russians, etc... There are troubles with none of them.
But those Muslim Arabs cause trouble most of the time...Ironically, the non-Muslim Arabs cause far less trouble
I'm not a racist, and I don't have a problem with Oriental People (my wife being Assyrian), but I do seriously distrust anything that has got to do with Islam.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I'm not a racist, and I don't have a problem with Oriental People (my wife being Assyrian), but I do seriously distrust anything that has got to do with Islam.

Then i have to point out that a step from "no muslims" is "no middle-easterns" and that would effect you personally.

 

[Vintersorg]

Then i have to point out that a step from "no muslims" is "no middle-easterns" and that would effect you personally.

See, that's the error most people make.
Middle-Eastern does not automatically mean Muslim.
Many middle-Eastern people are in fact Christians (I refer to Assyrians, Chaldeans, Armenians,etc...), but they tend to be stigmatized by the Muslim Arabs.
Take the Assyrians for example. They are Christians, but Turkey couldn't stand Christians in "their" country (which was 100% stolen from Greeks, Armenians and Assyrians), so they decided to destroy them. (for more info, look up the Assyrian Genocide).
In fact, these same middle-eastern people feel greatly insulted when you mistake them for Muslims (whom they refer to as cockroaches...)

 

[old.Tohtori]

See, that's the error most people make.
Middle-Eastern does not automatically mean Muslim.

Did i say they were?

I said that a step from "no muslims" country is a "no middle-easterns period" country.

 

[Vintersorg]

Did i say they were?

I said that a step from "no muslims" country is a "no middle-easterns period" country.

Sorry then, I misunderstood what you said.

Well, the guy in the article spoke specifically about Muslims, not "Middle-Eastern people".
And let's face it, it's true...Every country in the world where they come, they force the locals to adapt to their traditions, instead of them integrating.
I've seen Muslims insulting someone who kept a snackbar, because the didn't make his dishes "Halal".
I'm tired of living in a Belgian city and having difficulties finding a snack who still makes their fries/meats in the Belgian Fashion instead of the Arab Fashion.
It's details like that who prove that they will never integrate in European countries.
There's even a Muslim politician in Belgium who said that "if Belgians don't like the fact that Muslims don't integrate into Belgian society, the solution is simple: those Belgians have to emigrate"
Says enough about their mentality, IMHO

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well personally i haven't seen a problem in a specific group, people are arseholes no matter, just thought i'd give a perspective on how things(specualting) would go in a western country.

People already, like you said, don't differentiate between a muslim and a middle-eastern, so it might become a reality that a total anti-ME culture could be born.

 

[Gorbachioo]

People already, like you said, don't differentiate between a muslim and a middle-eastern, so it might become a reality that a total anti-ME culture could be born.

Which is exactly why this madness has to stop.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Which is exactly why this madness has to stop.

Right...right...

So your answer to this is?

Keep muslims where they are?
Keep people in their own countries for good?
No immigration at all?

All those scenarios create the anti-ME thing i said.

If you want to create a tolerant and a good natured community, you need to mix things and make it work.

 

[Vintersorg]

Right...right...

So your answer to this is?

Keep muslims where they are?
Keep people in their own countries for good?
No immigration at all?

Those would indeed be no solutions.
IMHO, European countries should stop giving in to everything the Muslim immigrants ask.
Because that's the problem where I live: Muslim immigrants have slightly more rights than the autochtonous population, and not nearly as many duties.

 

[Wonk]

I have to agree with everything Vintersorg has said so far. Especially this part

Every country in the world where they come, they force the locals to adapt to their traditions, instead of them integrating.

 

[Platin]

hmm first of all i think you quoted a wrong post.

second , yes his interviews are what you call qualitative interviews , he does them on two different ethnic groups and then compare the two sets.

third , as i allready explained these "qualitative interviews" still has no link or back up for the broad and sweeping statements he makes about muslims and muslim culture in general.

He's not basing it strictly on the interviews, they are complementary, and he's not making "sweeping" statements without support, he's refering to his own findings and other findings and statistics. An example would be:

"In Germany, only 12% of their 3.5 million Muslims see themselves as more German than Muslim; in France and Denmark, only 14% of the Muslim populations respectively see"

 

[Platin]

There are certain situations where quantitative takes priority over qualitative. I believe this is one of them.

it's a pretty complex issue, you can't create a deeper understanding of it through questionaries.

The statistics he mentions proves that there is something, the qualitative approach is meant to tell why.

 

[dub]

He's not basing it strictly on the interviews, they are complementary, and he's not making "sweeping" statements without support, he's refering to his own findings and other findings and statistics. An example would be:

"In Germany, only 12% of their 3.5 million Muslims see themselves as more German than Muslim; in France and Denmark, only 14% of the Muslim populations respectively see"

"integration of muslims in western societies not possible" is a rather broad and sweeping statement wich is factually untrue so i doubt he backs it up..

 

[Vintersorg]

"integration of muslims in western societies not possible" is a rather broad and sweeping statement wich is factually untrue so i doubt he backs it up..

It's indeed not actually totally true:
It shouldn't be "integration of muslims in western societies not possible", but "Muslims do not want to integrate in western societies"...
Sad but true, IMHO

 

[Platin]

"integration of muslims in western societies not possible" is a rather broad and sweeping statement wich is factually untrue so i doubt he backs it up..

You can doubt as much as you want