No idea Creation....

[Raven]

Yes and you can also see food decaying, that doesn't mean people always understood how or why.

People come up with all sorts of batshit and not so batshit ideas about why things happen. At the time when we (as a race) had a very basic understanding of nature and what makes things tick we used religion as a way to explain it or other crazy ideas.

Take Quantum physics, that experiment where a photon appears in two places at once when not observed but when observed it only appears in one place (I forget the exact thing)

In 100 years it might be the simplest thing to understand, because science.

 

[Gwadien]

Yes and you can also see food decaying, that doesn't mean people always understood how or why.

People come up with all sorts of batshit and not so batshit ideas about why things happen. At the time when we (as a race) had a very basic understanding of nature and what makes things tick we used religion as a way to explain it or other crazy ideas.

Take Quantum physics, that experiment where a photon appears in two places at once when not observed but when observed it only appears in one place (I forget the exact thing)

In 100 years it might be the simplest thing to understand, because science.

Or something could come along to compete with Science, frankly in the past, you have people out there that thought if you piss in water, boil it, and put salt in it. It'll cure a disease, I think with a lot of 'cures' we have they'll look back in the future and be like wtf, stupid idiots - I think having a vaccine for a virus is a starting point for that, it's the way it works.

 

[old.Tohtori]

So you're saying when we start life, we actually create our characters, and then become unaware that we actually -are- the creators?

Seems legit, could explain why people are the way they are - rich people usually sociopaths, ugly people nicer people etc etc

Quite and that's why they look for a higher power, looking for why we are here, without realising that they are the higher power and put themselves in here to have fun and play the game.

 

[Gwadien]

The thing is, religion is fascinating, but I really do think, in a ugly conclusion that Religion was created as a scape-goat to the hard questions that we have to answer, such as, why are we here, what is the purpose, what's the point, and when religion was at it's height, I'm going to live for 25 years, I'm scared, what happens after.

I think for what ever reason, whether that be for the purposes of unity of swathes of land, or whether it's to keep your masses partially happy for a lengthy period of time, Religion does help answer that question, blindly, because I don't think Religion discourages people to question the Religion whether that be Islam, Christianity etc etc, but it dis encourages people to think about the big questions.

That being said, Buddhism is an anomaly but because if anything, it's the anti of what I just stated.

 

[Scouse]

That being said, Buddhism is an anomaly but because if anything, it's the anti of what I just stated.

Buddhism's just as much as a detestable piece of shit as the rest of them. It doesn't create the peace-loving more than anyone else, practicioners are just as likely to be mass murdering fucktards justifying it in the name of their religion...

 

[Gwadien]

Buddhism's just as much as a detestable piece of shit as the rest of them. It doesn't create the peace-loving more than anyone else, practicioners are just as likely to be mass murdering fucktards justifying it in the name of their religion...

I'm not talking about the organised use of religion, I'm talking about their religion as a teaching - Buddhism teaches people to ask questions and try to be 'progressive' where as the other religions tend not to do that.

 

[DaGaffer]

Or something could come along to compete with Science.

I don't think you understand what science is.

 

[Gwadien]

I don't think you understand what science is.

'Fact'

But weren't religious explanations 'fact'?

 

[old.Tohtori]

are just as likely to be mass murdering fucktards justifying it in the name of their religion...

I think you'll find that science states that mass murdering has nothing to do with religion. Religion may be an excuse for mass murder, but it's not the reason why someone goes bonkers.

 

[DaGaffer]

'Fact'

But weren't religious explanations 'fact'?

No. And...no.

 

[Gwadien]

No. And...no.

Elaborate?

Religion dominated, Religion was the answer for everything, and now we've suddenly got the answer for everything, so that's the end of the process and nothing will question the 'new' answers?

Some how, I don't believe so.

 

[Olgaline]

@Scouse Your new best friends!

You have so much in common

 

[Scouse]

I think you'll find that science states that mass murdering has nothing to do with religion

Source please.

You have so much in common

I don't remember calling for violent holy war, the physical and sexual repression of women, suicide bombings in the name of a non-existent deity and sharia law.

Only a fucking idiot would equate a principled stance for evidence-based thinking with dangerous religious quackery.

 

[DaGaffer]

Fuck sake. Religion was never "fact" just because some priest or shaman said so. Science is not "fact" it is a process to find truth. And if science creates imperfect truth, it has the means to improve and replace what came before. Science is about questioning everything, so unless we discover everything, what replaces science?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Source please.

Look it up lazy bum.

I don't remember calling for violent holy war, the physical and sexual repression of women, suicide bombings in the name of a non-existent deity and sharia law.

Not those things, but you have called in equal quantity for a purification of religion for the name of forward thinking.

 

[Scouse]

Not those things, but you have called in equal quantity for a purification of religion for the name of forward thinking.

I've actually stated many many times that we should not ban religion or legislate against those who hold beliefs - but we should beat it into the dust through talking about it and ridiculing the "beliefs" of those gullible / uneducated enough to not requre evidence-based thinking.

So no. Not the same thing at all, and a much higher standard of morality than the religious have ever set...

 

[Gwadien]

Fuck sake. Religion was never "fact" just because some priest or shaman said so. Science is not "fact" it is a process to find truth. And if science creates imperfect truth, it has the means to improve and replace what came before. Science is about questioning everything, so unless we discover everything, what replaces science?

Who said anything about discovery?

We could go backwards for all we know, look at the 'Dark Ages' for instance.

I thought this thread was for a bit of 'theory-craft' and that's my belief, it doesn't matter if what you support and believe in is 'right' something will always come and challenge it.

 

[Raven]

Only nutjobbery.

The Earth is a sphere, that is unquestionable truth.

If the bombs went off tomorrow and put us back to the stone age and some guy came along and said the earth was flat again that wouldn't change the face that it is a sphere.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well to be fair it's not a sphere, it's more of a satsuma shape

 

[Scouse]

Actually the technical term is oblate spheroid.

 

[Olgaline]

You are just as radical in your convictions as they are, which side you are arguing doesn't really change that fact...Just to name a few......it would be so easy for me to convert that bunch of quotes into some radical religious ranting. The funny part is I mostly agree with you, but sadly not with the way you go about it...you won't ever achieve anything the way you choose to deliver your message to others.

Stop-Listen- Learn-Argue....Listen.

It's time to put archaic human-created shite to bed..... we should confront those who want to believe any old shit just "because" - as that is the top of the poo-lubricated slide back into the intellectual dung.

But what hubris to think that some invisible fucker designed it. And what idiocy keeps people thinking...there's a invisible man in the sky with a plan who's watching everything and everybody all the time that actually designed all this?..... it is still a fail, and of epic proportions.

Real-world issues result from discussion of non-evidence related bullshit ......Religion needs to be jumped on wherever it is found though. It's dangerous bullshit.

Ridicule those who hold religious views. Burn rape and pillage them (not actually physically - we'll leave that to the religious)

In my 40 years on this planet there's been a shitload of effort gone into understanding the religious viewpoint.....I understand it perfectly.....stamp it out like you would cancer. A really virulent form of cancer that spreads like wildfire amongst the dumb and impressionable... I get religion. I get it so well that I wish death on it. It's not that hard to understand...

The "knowledge you gain" isn't worth gaining. Not worth wasting your time on. It's not knowledge - If they can't meet those standards then they deserve ridicule. Ridicule being the most effective form, IMO....Pointless shit.....Anything else is a waste of time...

 

[Scouse]

You are just as radical in your convictions as they are, which side you are arguing doesn't really change that fact...

Whether you're correct or incorrect materially changes whether an argument is one for good or bad.

Passionately holding a conviction is not a reason to condemn someone. First check whether they are correct or incorrect. For example - I'm just as passionately against child pornography and child abuse. Is there something wrong with that strongly held conviction?

 

[Olgaline]

Whether you're correct or incorrect materially changes whether an argument is one for good or bad.

Passionately holding a conviction is not a reason to condemn someone. First check whether they are correct or incorrect. For example - I'm just as passionately against child pornography and child abuse. Is there something wrong with that strongly held conviction?

There is nothing wrong with a strongly held conviction...the difference is in how you choose to argue that conviction..

 

[DaGaffer]

There is nothing wrong with a strongly held conviction...the difference is in how you choose to argue that conviction..

No, the difference is whether its objectively true or not. This is the danger of arguing with religion, the idea that science and religion are just different viewpoints, they're not.

 

[old.Tohtori]

You two saying that if your argument is based on a proven fact, it gives you a free card to act any way you like?

 

[DaGaffer]

You two saying that if your argument is based on a proven fact, it gives you a free card to act any way you like?

No, I'm saying content should always take precedence over form. The idea that you have a right not to be offended is becoming too pervasive.

 

[Scouse]

There is nothing wrong with a strongly held conviction...the difference is in how you choose to argue that conviction..

Partly true @Olgaline. In answer to that:

1) The religious choose to violently oppress people and attempt, this very day even in the "free" west, to have laws passed that bans criticism on threat of incarceration. I.E. They either want to kill you or lock you up.

2) I advocate peaceful non-violent argument and free-speech ridicule, not violence, death and prison - so how I'm choosing to argue is clearly superior.

3) I'm correct, and religion is incorrect - so regardless of how we decide to argue our points religion has had it's chance, has been found wanting and if the human race wants to survive long enough to be able to make it to the stars then evidence-based thinking is the only thing that's going to get us there - and for that to happen religious thought must be abandoned.

4)

No, I'm saying content should always take precedence over form. The idea that you have a right not to be offended is becoming too pervasive.

This.

As long as I'm not killing people, or raping women in the name of allah, or killing muslims in the name of buddha, or blowing up catholics, or gassing Jews, or killing palestinians then I don't give two fucks that some people take offence at peaceful conversation just because they don't like what's being said.

 

[old.Tohtori]

and if the human race wants to survive long enough to be able to make it to the stars then evidence-based thinking is the only thing that's going to get us there - and for that to happen religious thought must be abandoned.

We akready did, just fine with religion around.

No, I'm saying content should always take precedence over form.

And i'm, and possibly Olga, saying it shouldn't. No matter if you're right or wrong, you're always wrong if you're going to go about it like an ahole.

 

[Krazeh]

No matter if you're right or wrong, you're always wrong if you're going to go about it like an ahole.

Well that's just fucking stupid. If you're right you're right. You may also be an asshole but that doesn't stop you being right.

 

[Gwadien]

We akready did, just fine with religion around.

How do you know we can't do -far- better without religion? we've never been without it.