No idea Creation....

[DaGaffer]

Well, we know how they form based on a theory then, that's not really knowing for sure though. I mean it's easy for Scientists to look at various things and piece XYZ together but for all we/they know it could be completely different/not formed like that. Space is still fairly unknown to science despite how much they've been looking into it (no pun intended), space is something they will never work out fully simply because of how vast it is and because of technology limitations.

@Raven Religion does indeed work like that, watched that Ken Ham / Bill Nye debate awhile back, and one of the quotes that really stuck with me from Bill Nye was something along the lines of "Science is basically accurate guessing/theories, if you can prove something that is different than what we found and have concrete evidence to support it, we'd believe it in a heart beat" where as Ken Ham basically went "Doesn't matter if you can prove everything about evolution, my bible says it happened like this and that's what i'm sticking to regardless of your proof"

Its strange regardless, I don't think anyone will ever unravel the mystery of us and where we actually came from, not with a 100% certainty anyway... for all we know we came from outside of this galaxy entirely and were carried here by an asteroid or something as a dormant fungus and evolved from there or some shit, highly unlikely but it could have happened.

No, we know a lot more than that. Geology has long since passed from theory to fact; we can make all kinds of rocks because at this point its just applied chemistry. Its become an engineering problem, not a scientific one. And gradually, providing we don't kill ourselves in the process, we'll turn other scientific theories into facts as well, including cosmological ones.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well there's that thread gone, more about science and how religion is bad now(big surprise thread ruin there).

Can't have a good discussion about hypothetical matters at all.

 

[Scouse]

Can't yack about unproveable bullshit without getting called on it - because people are rightly moving to evidence-based thinking. Those who refuse to/can't keep up with necessary intellectual change are, understandably, feeling miffed and are raging against what needs to happen.

Fixed...

 

[Raven]

Well there's that thread gone, more about science and how religion is bad now(big surprise thread ruin there).

Can't have a good discussion about hypothetical matters at all.

Maybe we could have about whether Xmen are real. Both Xmen and religion are about as truthful as each other. Or whether the moon is made of cheese, or whether the earth is hollow, or flat, or whether the sun rotates around the earth etc etc.

Religion can quite happily be dismissed out out hand.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Maybe we could if "science folk" didn't need to cram their ideology down everyones throat on any given soapbox they can find.

Discussing xmen is fun, discussing marvel universe is fun, discussing if we're living in a VR is fun, discussing "what if..."s in general is fun UNTIL Mister Scouse and the factpolice come running in and ruining everythng.

Nobody on this thread has made any claims that god exists, or that religion good mmm cakes, but still you need to read troves of bullsh*t on how religion is bad and how religious thinking is bad.

F*ck off.

And indeed if you can't see that as a problem then you're worse then jehovas witnesses.

 

[Scouse]

And indeed if you can't see that as a problem then you're worse then jehovas witnesses.

Jehovas Witnesses try to convert people to a method of thought that kills their children because of a rejection of science.

Real-world issues result from discussion of non-evidence related bullshit - like cancer victims who shun potentially life-saving treatments and die because their idiot homeopath friend says that they've a sugar pill that'll do a better job without the "side effects" - who cares if the evidence says otherwise eh?


Discuss X-Men for fun all you like. I'll even join you. It has no real-world side effects - unless people start beliving that they are Magneto and start stepping in front of traffic holding their hands up thinking they can make cars float.

Religion needs to be jumped on wherever it is found though. It's dangerous bullshit.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Since you're so f*cking dumb and blind to read anything outside your cherryfarm;

Religion needs to be jumped on wherever it is found though.

So who exactly are you arguing against with your preaching?

Come on then, who here claimed gods existance or anything like that outside having a fun discussions about what ifs? Hmm? Mister Fact?

Or are you here just to ruin everyone elses thread with your bent up religious fears?

 

[Scouse]

Come on then, who here claimed gods existance or anything like that outside having a fun discussions about what ifs? Hmm? Mister Fact?

If you read the thread above without your rage-glasses set to maximum you'd have realised I'd have said that discussing x-men and similar fantasy stuff, for fun, is harmless. And I said I'd join you.

However, I also have said that there is no "fun" discussion of the possibility of god being real. That's the top of the shit-slide into idiocy and has real-world implications.

Deal with your proveable wrong-ness, rather than dishing out the predictable insults...

 

[caLLous]

I give this thread 4 pages before it turns into a Scouse and Toht fest.

Called it.

 

[Scouse]

Called it.

Meh. So Toht wants there to be a god and has the balls to say so*. The other religious folk on this forum don't even bother facing up to the challenge...



*or whatever he wants today, whether he wants a god/doesn't want a god/believes/doesn't believe/whatever suits his ever-changing argument of the moment.

 

[caLLous]

Oh I'm firmly on your side of this fence, I was just remembering G's prediction.

 

[Scouse]

Oh I'm firmly on your side of this fence, I was just remembering G's prediction.

Well, Raven and DaGaffer are also still posting in this thread, on this very page, so I'd present that as evidence to the contrary

 

[old.Tohtori]

Two replies to Scouse is a fest? Whine more.

Btw @Scouse you have the wrong idea there, i don't want a god, or buy into the jesus stuff. I've told you this a few times already

Though you are right that i do have the balls to post even if the tohto-police try to shut me down. Think you'd appreciate the fight for freedom of speech

 

[Olgaline]

I admire your optimism sir!

So much for optimism eh?

 

[old.user4556]

Called it.

 

[DaGaffer]

Er, Toht, the original question was "does anyone on here buy into creationism?" 94.4% say no. I don't know what conversation you wanted to have about it, but since the original question was about that, and can't really be answered by those who don't believe in God as anything other than "don't be fucking stupid", I don't really understand your point.

 

[TdC]

what I take away from this thread is that 36 people read the general forum.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I don't really understand your point.

If i explained it, would you think any different?

 

[Lakih]

You mean you don't have a coherent argument. Why not just admit it - just like the Archbishop of Canterbury did

I don't even know what you are arguing. In the link you posted (why?), the Archbishop of Canterbury has doubts that god exist (according to his believes) and when things gets tough he

Calls to Jesus, and Jesus picks up

.
I don't share the Archbishop of Canterbury's believes. I don't believe in god. Any god.
I told you twice, i'm an agnostic. In case you are unsure what that means, here's the Marriam-Webster dictionary's definition of the word.

a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly: one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

 

[DaGaffer]

If i explained it, would you think any different?

Try

 

[old.Tohtori]

Try

Alright. Scouses first contribution to the thread was critisizing the vague nature of it, most everyone elses was to answer what was asked. The second a preachy criticism of another members opinion(IOW: having a reason to be on this planet). There forth, same deal, criticism and belittling. I don't think that he at any point actually answered the original question, but DID lead the thread into a "religion should be purged" rant. Others followed suit and here we go.

That's not dscussing an issue, that's ruining the discussion with a soapbox moment. As he said himself; "Religion needs to be jumped on wherever it is found though. It's dangerous bullshit.". That has no place or reason to be in a thread in a forum where none of us are participating in "dangerous religious activities", or basing our life choices on those ideals. We were just having a discussion.

Now if Scouse(or others) had come to the thread and said "I don't think creationism has any merit, too much facts on evolution to even question it." That's fine, that's normal, you're giving your opinion and leaving others to have theirs. Some actually said that and you don't see me telling them off, why? Because they contributed with their opinions while leaving others to have theirs, or discussed the matter without judging the other persons opinion outright.

So, tl:dr then? Thread was ruined by judgement, not discussing the matter.

To make it even clearer;

Er, Toht, the original question was "does anyone on here buy into creationism?"

can't really be answered by those who don't believe in God as anything other than "don't be fucking stupid", I don't really understand your point.

Yes it can, really easily, and first by removing the "don't be stupid" from your post altogether.

 

[DaGaffer]

Yes it can, really easily, and first by removing the "don't be stupid" from your post altogether.

That was just paraphrasing, but the gist of it is correct; not only is the idea of creationism fucking stupid (because, dinosaurs) but the idea that holding the opinion that creationism is a valid viewpoint and worthy of consideration is also fucking stupid. I don't really believe the whole "your opinion is batshit crazy but I respect your right to have that opinion". Because, well, I don't. Stupid opinions are not worthy of respect just because they are based on a sincere belief.

So yeah, if you think creationism is valid, don't be fucking stupid.

 

[caLLous]

Even worse when seemingly intelligent people hold said stupid opinions.

 

[old.Tohtori]

That was just paraphrasing, but the gist of it is correct; not only is the idea of creationism fucking stupid (because, dinosaurs) but the idea that holding the opinion that creationism is a valid viewpoint and worthy of consideration is also fucking stupid. I don't really believe the whole "your opinion is batshit crazy but I respect your right to have that opinion". Because, well, I don't. Stupid opinions are not worthy of respect just because they are based on a sincere belief.

So yeah, if you think creationism is valid, don't be fucking stupid.

You're missing the whole point i was explaining just by focusing on one thing in the post that isn't even present on this thread. There's no creationism defenders here, yet you're saying it's ok the thread turns from a discusso into a religion purging platform simply because those defenders are stupid?

You also seem to be saying that any people that let others have their "stupid" opinions are equally stupid, like being polite and not confrontational is somehow intellectually inferior?

Key element there though; you didn't understand my original point because you don't even understand the clear explanation of what i was saying.

 

[DaGaffer]

You can't have a conversation about creationism and expect to keep the idiocy of religion out of it. They're fairly closely linked! And not to put too fine a point on it, if you were looking for the one of the most silly expressions of religion out there, its dogmatically refusing to accept the world is more than 6000 years old. However, my view on it is slightly different to Scouse's inasmuch I'm entirely certain that if religion disappeared tomorrow, people would find other equally stupid things to believe. I'd just rather that stupid belief systems weren't protected by laws or forced on other people.

 

[old.Tohtori]

You can't have a conversation about creationism and expect to keep the idiocy of religion out of it. They're fairly closely linked! And not to put too fine a point on it, if you were looking for the one of the most silly expressions of religion out there, its dogmatically refusing to accept the world is more than 6000 years old. However, my view on it is slightly different to Scouse's inasmuch I'm entirely certain that if religion disappeared tomorrow, people would find other equally stupid things to believe. I'd just rather that stupid belief systems weren't protected by laws or forced on other people.

Even if still my point wasn't about that, i do like your post due to it actually being on topic and reasonably civil

I think you can have a discussion without using phrases like idiocy etc, though i also like to try and see -how- i could make an argument on it. For example creationism, it would be kind of fun to try and defend it, or talk to someone believing in it a 100% and try to see it from their POV without completely going against it from the get go. You often can't though, as much as "idiocy and religion" go hand in hand, so do religion and anti-religious rants.

I guess i could put it like this; You don't have to respect other peoples opinions, you can also think they're compeltely bonkers, but i don't think it's not too much to ask to respect other people to such a degree that you don't have to burn rape and pillage their whole worldview and substitute it with your own.

 

[Scouse]

i do like your post due to it actually being on topic and reasonably civil

Says the guy who called me "so fucking dumb and blind"...

you don't have to burn rape and pillage their whole worldview and substitute it with your own.

Where religion is concerned that's the only way to be sure. Because that's exactly what religion did for centuries and we're just coming out the other side of it.

Ridicule those who hold religious views. Burn rape and pillage them (not actually physically - we'll leave that to the religious) - but with words, on a forum? How civilised...

 

[Olgaline]

Spot on @old.Tohtori

I try to make an effort to decipher and understand those that do not share my pov. Aka what makes them tick, why do they think they way they do etc...

I find I learn more about the world that way with a side benifit of being challenged on my convictions.

Example: I don't get how some can hold it as an undisputed truth, that the world is only 5000 years old. So I ask, in an attempt to better understand..

 

[old.Tohtori]

Says the guy who called me "so fucking dumb and blind"...

Hey, fact based thinking and saying it aloud is required for this species to move forward. Then again facts aren't your strong point now are they

Ergo such as making things like this up;

*or whatever he wants today, whether he wants a god/doesn't want a god/believes/doesn't believe/whatever suits his ever-changing argument of the moment.

Which by the by was edited in after i posted and said he was wrong about my "beliefs"(for lack of better term. So cute when you forget i F5 this site more then pornsites have wankstains.

 

[Scouse]

I try to make an effort to decipher and understand those that do not share my pov.

In my 40 years on this planet there's been a shitload of effort gone into understanding the religious viewpoint.

I understand it perfectly. There's nothing more about that viewpoint that is worth knowing about. For me it's now a waste of time and life. Debating something you know, completely and utterly, is a method of thought that is detrimental to the human race is pointless.

So you make a choice. And the choice is to stamp it out like you would cancer. A really virulent form of cancer that spreads like wildfire amongst the dumb and impressionable - and hurts future generations through indoctrination - so not even the intelligent are immune.

I get religion. I get it so well that I wish death on it. It's not that hard to understand...




Edit:

i F5 this site more then pornsites have wankstains.

That's pretty sad. I wang up an edit box and go make a cup of tea, not giving two fucks whether someone's typing things after I have. Then I start up a game, alt-tab to a browser and realise I haven't finished what I started typing...

"Cute" I guess that I don't really give that much of a fuck about what you've typed