No idea Creation....

[Job]

Creationism is perfectly feasible in a universe of infinite possibilities..I dont believe it in our situation because of the overwhelming evidence..but more importantly the trail of human interference in the belief to make it fit other beliefs.

 

[Olgaline]

Tbh we used to have more religious people around

A . we've chased them off
B. They cba to participate due to prior ridicule

Both options being abit unfortunate

 

[caLLous]

Well somebody said it's "the truth" and hasn't backed it up with words.

 

[Scouse]

No one can prove that, or prove it wrong.

Only because religious claims are not falsifiable.

In the same way you can't prove that the world isn't full of invisible pink unicorns. Which, of course, it totally is. Definitely.

Prove me wrong. :shrug:

Why where we put here, for what purpose.

Why do you assume we have a purpose? We weren't "put" anywhere and we make our own purpose.

Why are we the only animal evolved to reason and feel the way we do (i.e. why are we separate from all the other animals that inhibits the planet).

We're demonstrably not separate or the only animals to feel the way we do.

Where did we come from.

An understanding of evolution will give you that answer. The fact that it "doesn't cut it" for you simply shows that you're not sufficiently interested in finding the answer to that question and that you haven't bothered to understand and learn about the mechanisms that science shows give the correct, falsifiable, answer.

We have the answer to that. You don't like / aren't interested in it.

 

[Scouse]

Why do the religious think there needs to be purpose?

 

[Lakih]

Why do the religious think there needs to be purpose?

WTF do jumping manta rays have to do with religion? It's a bunch of fishes, having fun. That's the purpose - fun. You should try it sometimes, maybe that would get the stick out of your ass.

Also, you don't know me, so don't pretend to know what i am interested in or bothers to learn.

We are separate from other animals, it was in the middle of the night when i wrote the post so i didn't bother to google much for a deeper explanation (I should have because you can't have an opinion on anything around here without backing it up by facts... obviously).

This is what i meant...

"Hauser and his colleagues have identified four abilities of the human mind that they believe to be the essence of our "humaniqueness" mental traits and abilities that distinguish us from our fellow Earthlings. They are: generative computation, promiscuous combination of ideas, the use of mental symbols, and abstract thought." http://www.livescience.com/33376-humans-other-animals-distinguishing-mental-abilities.html


And just to make it clear. I am still Agnostic. Or do i have to prove that with quotes or links for it to be true?

 

[old.user4556]

Or do i have to prove that with quotes or links for it to be true?

@Scouse will ask for evidence to counter his evidence.

LOVE YOU SCOUSE .

 

[Lakih]

Personally, i'm an agnostic.

And just to make it clear. I am still Agnostic.

Best i can do for now.

 

[Job]

Creationists are a product of evolution...they have evolved by brain mutation to tend towards less questioning of belief..this may prove to be advantageous and they will become dominant..or that trait may die out..there are a billion seemingly unconnected factors that will decide that outcome.

 

[Scouse]

WTF do jumping manta rays have to do with religion?

I was making an argument with a video I just happened to be watching at the time.

Look at these - they're pretty fucking amazing. Just flowers that look like something else. But what hubris to think that some invisible fucker designed it. And what idiocy keeps people thinking, despite all the reams of evidence to the contrary, that there's a invisible man in the sky with a plan who's watching everything and everybody all the time that actually designed all this?

The more we know about our natural world and how these things come about the weaker the argument that there's any sort of designer. It's clearly, obviously and irrefutably a natural process.


Now we know all this, and given the comprehensive nature of the evidence base we've built up, for an educated person to think otherwise is an understandable failure - especially given human history and our natural emotional makeup.

However, it is still a fail, and of epic proportions.

 

[Scouse]

"Hauser and his colleagues have identified four abilities of the human mind that they believe to be the essence of our "humaniqueness" mental traits and abilities that distinguish us from our fellow Earthlings. ... http://www.livescience.com/33376-humans-other-animals-distinguishing-mental-abilities.html

Just to make it clear that I do read other people's arguments I'll just say that I don't put a lot of stock by Mark Hauser's ideas - he was found guilty (twice) on eight counts of scientific misconduct and had to resign. Something about falsifying data to fit his world view. He sold him some books tho...

However, to quote the beginning of the article you posted:

There's no consensus on the question of what makes us special, or whether we even are. The biggest point of contention is whether our cognitive abilities differ from those of other animals "in kind," or merely in degree. Are we in a class by ourselves or just the smartest ones in our class?

Charles Darwin supported the latter hypothesis. He believed we are similar to animals, and merely incrementally more intelligent as a result of our higher evolution

Seems to fit the bill for me, but then there's no consensus yet amongst scientists.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Thing here is though, i posted/discussed with Olga about what i think of the matter and all that(beliefs, hypotheticals whatnot). The, for lack of better term, "super-atheists" will discuss why others are wrong/insane in the matter.

That's why you can't usually have this discussion. There's no proof needed in these kind of discussions.

And no that doesn't mean "oh cop out because you can't prove god!", but because it's all hypothetical chatty smalltalk stuff. Not a "court of law" as someone put it *cough*

 

[Job]

I simply believe in the truth...we probably know less that a tiny percentage of the truth of the cosmos..I chose to ignore religious claims simply because of the easily traceable history of their invention and intention.

 

[Scouse]

There's no proof needed in these kind of discussions.

Only for those like this:

"The only people who don't accept the theory of evolution are those who have not yet themselves begun the process."

It's time to put archaic human-created shite to bed. It's served it's purpose for mankind and we're now coming out of the dark ages.

Evidence based thinking is what must drive us forward and we should confront those who want to believe any old shit just "because" - as that is the top of the poo-lubricated slide back into the intellectual dung.

 

[caLLous]

Tis why I don't think this should be an anonymous poll. I want to know who voted that it's the truth and hear their reasoning (or it was just somebody being a hilarious troll).

 

[Scouse]

Tis why I don't think this should be an anonymous poll.

Meh - it's nice to know what people think rather than have them maybe not vote...

 

[Urgat]

Only for those like this:

It's time to put archaic human-created shite to bed. It's served it's purpose for mankind and we're now coming out of the dark ages.

Evidence based thinking is what must drive us forward and we should confront those who want to believe any old shit just "because" - as that is the top of the poo-lubricated slide back into the intellectual dung.

This pretty much on the money.

Religion has no place in the modern world. Critical thinking should be encouraged, and all religion does is subvert and suppress it.

(Note... I am talking about RELIGIONS... Not faith)

 

[Scouse]

Why the facepalm and no counter-argument @Lakih?

I'm serious - humans need to move on to a better mode of thought or we'll be selected out of existence. Whether it's because we poison our planet, or destroy ourselves through war or whether we mistakenly make changes to our genome that are inheritable or whether the smarter humans evolve a better way of thinking and do what homo sapiens did to neanderthal man.

The only remedy to the majority of the above is evidence-based thinking. We have to ditch our old modes of thinking - religious, faith-based bollocks. It needs to die a long-overdue death.


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YltEym9H0x4

 

[Olgaline]

And you lot wonder why those that have religious views might chose to avoid bringing their views to light

 

[old.Tohtori]

Another thread ruined by atheist preaching. And i just got rid of the ones knocking at my door at 6am.

 

[TdC]

Feynman is one of the more amazing people to have walked this earth. I've heard him compared to a lot of things, but atheist preacher was not one of them. Until now.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Wasn't talking about him, so keep that comparing list intact

I was making a joke at the atheists around here being like jehovas witnesses.

 

[Lakih]

Why the facepalm and no counter-argument @Lakih?

I couldn't be bothered. It's pointless and you don't have the self-awareness to know why.

 

[BloodOmen]

I'm always on the fence about where we came from.

The facts

- We've seen no proof of a divine being, "God" is purely looked upon with faith rather than facts, faith is not facts and as such shouldn't even be considered as a being that created us unless something absolutely concrete is proven about gods existence. If some sort of solid proof is ever discovered, i'd be a believer over night.

- As for evolution, we've had proof... some what for it, but it still doesn't answer where we came from, evolving out of nothingness on earth is one thing, the universe however did not evolve, rocks do not evolve (except volcanos... space volcanos? I think not), space itself does not evolve, its not a living organism so again we come back to the eternal and impossible question to answer - Who made it? where did space come from? where did the planets come from? where did Galaxies come from?

None of the above can be answered with certainty, science is simply speculation (albeit it fairly accurate most of the time speculation) and religion is just faith, no solid facts beyond what has been written in a book (by us, man, not by an angel or a god but by man)

in short - Fuck knows, until some divine being appears or some ancient alien race appears and tells us of the universe/galaxies origins we will likely never know, not in earths lifetime anyway.

 

[DaGaffer]

I'm always on the fence about where we came from.

The facts

- We've seen no proof of a divine being, "God" is purely looked upon with faith rather than facts, faith is not facts and as such shouldn't even be considered as a being that created us unless something absolutely concrete is proven about gods existence. If some sort of solid proof is ever discovered, i'd be a believer over night.

- As for evolution, we've had proof... some what for it, but it still doesn't answer where we came from, evolving out of nothingness on earth is one thing, the universe however did not evolve, rocks do not evolve (except volcanos... space volcanos? I think not), space itself does not evolve, its not a living organism so again we come back to the eternal and impossible question to answer - Who made it? where did space come from? where did the planets come from? where did Galaxies come from?

None of the above can be answered with certainty, science is simply speculation (albeit it fairly accurate most of the time speculation) and religion is just faith, no solid facts beyond what has been written in a book (by us, man, not by an angel or a god but by man)

in short - Fuck knows, until some divine being appears or some ancient alien race appears and tells us of the universe/galaxies origins we will likely never know, not in earths lifetime anyway.

We know how rocks form, we're pretty sure we know how planets form, we have a good idea about stars and galaxies and cosmology generally, the only unknowable question is what came before the Big Bang. The point is that science is not "speculation", its theories subject to testing and replacement, an option not open to religion. A hundred years ago we didn't know these things, now we do.

 

[Raven]

Thats the difference. The only time religion changes is when it is profitable to do so. Science changes, or is corrected all the time.

The world of science would happily accept the existence of a god or gods, if there was a single shred of proof or even theory. Christ's face in a Marmite lid does not count unfortunately.

All religion was started by men, that's why there is an endless amount of them, which one is the correct one to believe in? Surely it would be one of the older ones, like sun worship or those batshit crazy South American religions?

 

[Scouse]

I couldn't be bothered. It's pointless and you don't have the self-awareness to know why.

You mean you don't have a coherent argument. Why not just admit it - just like the Archbishop of Canterbury did

 

[BloodOmen]

We know how rocks form, we're pretty sure we know how planets form, we have a good idea about stars and galaxies and cosmology generally, the only unknowable question is what came before the Big Bang. The point is that science is not "speculation", its theories subject to testing and replacement, an option not open to religion. A hundred years ago we didn't know these things, now we do.

Well, we know how they form based on a theory then, that's not really knowing for sure though. I mean it's easy for Scientists to look at various things and piece XYZ together but for all we/they know it could be completely different/not formed like that. Space is still fairly unknown to science despite how much they've been looking into it (no pun intended), space is something they will never work out fully simply because of how vast it is and because of technology limitations.

@Raven Religion does indeed work like that, watched that Ken Ham / Bill Nye debate awhile back, and one of the quotes that really stuck with me from Bill Nye was something along the lines of "Science is basically accurate guessing/theories, if you can prove something that is different than what we found and have concrete evidence to support it, we'd believe it in a heart beat" where as Ken Ham basically went "Doesn't matter if you can prove everything about evolution, my bible says it happened like this and that's what i'm sticking to regardless of your proof"

Its strange regardless, I don't think anyone will ever unravel the mystery of us and where we actually came from, not with a 100% certainty anyway... for all we know we came from outside of this galaxy entirely and were carried here by an asteroid or something as a dormant fungus and evolved from there or some shit, highly unlikely but it could have happened.

 

[CorNokZ]

Was bored already looking at the title.. Have no idea why I bothered actually clicking it, as I already knew the outcome

 

[Scouse]

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qySx8tSs8BQ