Crafting

[longbow]

Not much info around about crafting. But one thing Ive not found at all is any form of crafting to do with armour or weapons. Is this for the future or is there not going to be any player made stuff? It would make sense having it to sell in the AH since most (if not all) looted stuff is bind on pickup

 

[Gotmagi]

YouTube - Warhammer Online Production Video Podcast #19 - Crafting

This one should do the trick

 

[Faya]

If mythic stays true to the old ways, we will see player crafting of important items soon enough anyways. Like spellcrafting=talisman crafting. Alchemie=Apothecary.
But on a 2nd idea, weapon/armor crafting is not necessary needed with all the equipment choices given...albeit abit low on talisman space in the lower tirs.

Faya

 

[Ashash Saleem]

YouTube - Warhammer Online Production Video Podcast #19 - Crafting

This one should do the trick

Hmn, 'i did not want a recipe based game', well you failed then, you get items you put them together you make a product, that's a recipe, just because you don't tell us what them combinations are first and we have to work them out doesn't mean it's not a recipe, it's just a recipe we have to work out for yourselves, what a numbnuts.

 

[Coder]

I have to say I'm really disappointed with the crafting system not including Weapons/Armor.. to me this is way more important than the "Alchemy/Jewelcrafting"-clones. These are basic items that are a key component to levelling and RVR, and would have an immediate effect on a player-based economy.

This is even worse than WoW, where you could at least create armor/weapons.

ToA may have killed crafting in DAoC, but I was sure Mythic had learned from their mistake and put crafted items back in the front with War. Apparently this is not the case.

 

[Zede]

I have to say I'm really disappointed with the crafting system not including Weapons/Armor.. to me this is way more important than the "Alchemy/Jewelcrafting"-clones. These are basic items that are a key component to levelling and RVR, and would have an immediate effect on a player-based economy.

This is even worse than WoW, where you could at least create armor/weapons.

ToA may have killed crafting in DAoC, but I was sure Mythic had learned from their mistake and put crafted items back in the front with War. Apparently this is not the case.

mere speculation.

the only "low level" weapon people Ever crafed in wow was the deadly blunderbuss, and thats only cause' it was for a quest. L19 twinks made the engineering hat, and you could craft a L13 wand that was good. Nobody bothered making low level armor in daoc either, always a zillion boE stuff on the CM.

I chcked the AH yesterday, 2 blues & 4 greens, not bad considering. ( all wep/armor)

 

[longbow]

Thanks Gotmagi - it did answer a few questions - but left many unanswered. Like Coder Im surprised that there is no armour/weapon crafting - to me it seems daft not having it. Maybe we will see this develope as the game progresses but at the moment I think crafting has much room for development - but I'll reserve judgement until Ive tried it.

 

[thergador]

ToA may have killed crafting in DAoC, .

if you fully TOAed your template you didnt know how to template correctly get some omni procs and some over charge SC and add your arties and you rock but you still need the
crafting

 

[dee777]

Hmn, 'i did not want a recipe based game', well you failed then, you get items you put them together you make a product, that's a recipe, just because you don't tell us what them combinations are first and we have to work them out doesn't mean it's not a recipe, it's just a recipe we have to work out for yourselves, what a numbnuts.

Actually you are the numbnut. The difference to a recipe based system is the need to acquire said recipe before crafting. Rare/Bind on pickup recipes could be hard to come by. In WARs system, you "only" need to acquire the ingredients.

 

[partyanimal]

indeed recipies suck, sooner or later there will be sites with the combos of ingredients you need to make the right potions.
altho you can read a description of their use

 

[Coder]

if you fully TOAed your template you didnt know how to template correctly get some omni procs and some over charge SC and add your arties and you rock but you still need the
crafting

No, I didn't full ToA my armor, but the point I was trying to make with that comment was more that I really disliked ToA than that it was detrimental to crafting.

The real point of my post was that I want player created items to be considered as important as drops, thereby creating an in-game economy that's got a life of it's own.

And for those saying this isn't a recipe-based crafting system.. well, think about it this way.. do you really believe that you will come up with a combination that wasn't pre-planned by Mythic? Do you think you'll be standing there with a potion that Mythic hadn't coded into the game? Of course not.. and that combination is a recipe, it's just not possible to pick it from a list because the "item" behind the combination is hidden from the end user.

Combine x with y and you'll have a 50% success rate at Apothecary 50 for a health potion. That's a recipe. A recipe is not just a template that you need to acquire before creating something, though that would be the WoW-definition.

 

[Nilam]

anyone here been trying the crafting system?

I did try it in the open beta. And just becuse you use the same ingredients two times. It didnt give you the same potion... some time it whould give you a 5 min potion. othere times it would give you a 10 min potion... there are also some othere diffrences but I dont wanna spoil it for the once that like crafting as mush as I do.

 

[Nilam]

Combine x with y and you'll have a 50% success rate at Apothecary 50 for a health potion. That's a recipe. A recipe is not just a template that you need to acquire before creating something, though that would be the WoW-definition.

x + y = xy.

but is

y + x = xy or is it yx ?

 

[Legean]

And for those saying this isn't a recipe-based crafting system.. well, think about it this way.. do you really believe that you will come up with a combination that wasn't pre-planned by Mythic? Do you think you'll be standing there with a potion that Mythic hadn't coded into the game? Of course not.. and that combination is a recipe, it's just not possible to pick it from a list because the "item" behind the combination is hidden from the end user.

Youre missing the point, there will be recipes just you dont have to follow recipes. Its a subtle difference. Think of it like this, if you dont know the recipe how can you use it?

 

[Coder]

Youre missing the point, there will be recipes just you dont have to follow recipes. Its a subtle difference. Think of it like this, if you dont know the recipe how can you use it?

No, I do understand what you're trying to say, I just disagree. What you're describing is just what I'm saying... the recipes are there, people just don't know them yet.

But whatever.. potatoes, potatos..

 

[Legean]

No, I do understand what you're trying to say, I just disagree. What you're describing is just what I'm saying... the recipes are there, people just don't know them yet.

But whatever.. potatoes, potatos..

Youre mistaking recipes for outcomes.

recipe

1. a set of instructions for making or preparing something, esp. a food dish: a recipe for a cake.
2. a medical prescription.
3. a method to attain a desired end: a recipe for success

We can ignore number 2 but from 1 you have no instructions, and from number 3 you dont know the outcome and so cant have a desired end. What there are, are a lot of outcomes based on what you put in. Making recipes is optional which means the system itself is not recipe based.

 

[caswallawn]

so basicaly the crafting is like a few other games were differant amounts of differant items mixed make things but they dont tell you what its going to make till its done?

 

[Ch3tan]

YouTube - Warhammer Online Production Video Podcast #19 - Crafting

This one should do the trick

Ta for that, was quite confused by crafting until now

 

[Coder]

Youre mistaking recipes for outcomes.


We can ignore number 2 but from 1 you have no instructions, and from number 3 you dont know the outcome and so cant have a desired end. What there are, are a lot of outcomes based on what you put in. Making recipes is optional which means the system itself is not recipe based.

or rather, the recipe I'm thinking of is an instance of a class

public class CraftingComponent
{
int componentID;
string componentName;
int componentType;
}
public class CraftedItem
{
int itemID;
string itemName;
List<CraftingComponent> components = new List<CraftingComponent>();
}

Where CraftedItem is a pre-defined combination of components stored in a Mythic database.. hence my usage of the word recipe.

such as

CraftedItem NewItem = new CraftedItem(0,"Healing Potion +4");
NewItem.components.Add("Ugly Glass Vial");
NewItem.components.Add("Yucky gooh");

That instance is stored in a database, and when a user combines an Ugly Glass Vial component with a Yucky Gooh component, they get a Healing Potion +4...

Well.. that's a simplified description and probably not proper syntax, but I'm writing this on the fly.. I'm just saying that every combination available to be crafted is pre-defined, hence my usage of the word recipe..

 

[Coder]

actually.. it's rather silly of us (me in particular) to keep pushing this point, since it's really secondary to what my gripe was/is with the crafting system..

i really really wanted to see a fully player-based economy where crafting was a big part of it, but unfortunately that is not the case with the launch-product. as I think I'm somewhat of a minority considering this to be so important, I don't think it will matter one bit to Mythic, however.

this only follows the pattern I've noticed during open beta.. the graphics are great, the "quick fix" goodies are great (early PVP, early quest-rewards that make a difference etc) are catering to a new breed of MMORPG-players who got into the genre with WoW. crafting/economy is secondary and the focus is on action.

nothing wrong with that, just a slight disappointment to me as I was hoping for a DAoC 2 in those aspects. a "next step" if you wish.

instead they've cut out equipment crafting, as well as making things such as arrows and bullets infinite and not something that has to be "filled" up.

 

[Aada]

actually.. it's rather silly of us (me in particular) to keep pushing this point, since it's really secondary to what my gripe was/is with the crafting system..

i really really wanted to see a fully player-based economy where crafting was a big part of it, but unfortunately that is not the case with the launch-product. as I think I'm somewhat of a minority considering this to be so important, I don't think it will matter one bit to Mythic, however.

this only follows the pattern I've noticed during open beta.. the graphics are great, the "quick fix" goodies are great (early PVP, early quest-rewards that make a difference etc) are catering to a new breed of MMORPG-players who got into the genre with WoW. crafting/economy is secondary and the focus is on action.

nothing wrong with that, just a slight disappointment to me as I was hoping for a DAoC 2 in those aspects. a "next step" if you wish.

instead they've cut out equipment crafting, as well as making things such as arrows and bullets infinite and not something that has to be "filled" up.

The problem with having a crafted gear system in my opinion is that the casual player will not be able to compete with the hardcore players who will craft all day/every day for the best gear then steam people.

WAR at the moment seems very casual friendly and the current crafting professions will be used but not to the point where they make somebody overpowered such as DAOC SC days

Personally i welcome what Mythic has done i don't really enjoy crafting and i don't really enjoy paying some crafter obsene amounts of money to have my gear enchanted.

 

[Coder]

The problem with having a crafted gear system in my opinion is that the casual player will not be able to compete with the hardcore players who will craft all day/every day for the best gear then steam people.

WAR at the moment seems very casual friendly and the current crafting professions will be used but not to the point where they make somebody overpowered such as DAOC SC days

Personally i welcome what Mythic has done i don't really enjoy crafting and i don't really enjoy paying some crafter obsene amounts of money to have my gear enchanted.

..and I understand that.. I do disagree, however, that it's the people who "craft the most" that will get an advantage in combat.. crafters are a different breed than people who only want to do the combat parts.. in short, the two kinds have always complemented eachother through supply and demand. generally, you don't see crafters dominate in RvR, since, lo and behold, they're usually crafting

you do however stress the point I was trying to make there.. the game is more aimed at the casual gamer than the "more advanced" gamer; with more advanced I mean people who are looking for more than just fighting.

 

[rayben]

Personally i welcome what Mythic has done i don't really enjoy crafting and i don't really enjoy paying some crafter obsene amounts of money to have my gear enchanted.

Crafting doesn't have to favor the hardcore. The crafted items doesn't have to be better but they could be different. A way of diversifying itemization if you will.

With trophies and the importance of identity in WAR there could be crafting proffessions focused entirely on cosmetic items. There are alot of things one could come up with but as has been said, focus is on the action. Don't get me wrong, killing stuff is great fun but sometimes, after a good kill, you just want to sit on the nice soft high elf corps, breath in the sweet smell of elf blood and carv yourself a little wooden skull to hang on your belt.... or something.

 

[thergador]

I'm just saying that every combination available to be crafted is pre-defined, hence my usage of the word recipe..

and there in you have self proven by miss-information yourself incorrect in that the out come has a chance to differ on each craft thus proving

warhammer crafting != recipe based crafting
warhammer crafting === (!recipe based crafting+random outcome)

 

[caswallawn]

so what you can find a combination that makes something usefull then repeate it and get a differant item? or will there be a certain way to get 100% outcomes on a certain item.

 

[CowledScout]

x + y = xy.

but is

y + x = xy or is it yx ?

Baby Jesus just cried over that math, Nilam...

x + y <> xy

 

[Heta]

thing is, you don't need the recepie before making the item, all you need is the ingredience

ofc there will be a list on the net soon telling what you need for everything and how to make them, but you wont have to farm the same mobs for hours on end in hope of a recepie to drop so you can make this item you want to, you simply just make it when you got whats needed for it

 

[longbow]

Actually mathematically speaking

x + y = z It is an adition of things not a multiplication

that dont matter - the point is that some folk like crafting and like to know what they are going to get for their labours - others dont like crafting so will either not try it or will be surprised at what they get.

 

[Raven]

The problem with having a crafted gear system in my opinion is that the casual player will not be able to compete with the hardcore players who will craft all day/every day for the best gear then steam people.

WAR at the moment seems very casual friendly and the current crafting professions will be used but not to the point where they make somebody overpowered such as DAOC SC days

Personally i welcome what Mythic has done i don't really enjoy crafting and i don't really enjoy paying some crafter obsene amounts of money to have my gear enchanted.

I actually think not having the hardcore people in a game can be damaging, if nobody has a target to reach they will get bored pretty quickly if you make that target to easy to achieve then this boredom will set in right around the time wrath of the litch king is released. What is an MMO if it is not a series of targets? An MMO is like real life in that respect, you need people above you in the social or economic order to set the bar.
It doesn't necessarily mean that you have to play for 50 hours a week to get <insert item> you just have to play cleverer, farm the materials yourself. Not aimed at anyone in particular but it makes me laugh when people just sit around moaning that they can't achieve something in an MMO, everyone has the same set of tools available to them so there is no reason why everyone can't achieve what they want from a game.

Personally I like the sound of the new crafting system and I for one will not be googling recipes but will get them the "proper way" by learning from mistakes. It is a shame that there are no player crafted weapons and armour (yet) but in saying that I have not got one single crafted piece in WoW, its all come from black temple/MH with the odd badge reward piece here and there.

 

[Coder]

For my final post in this thread (applause anyone?), I'd like to mention that I like crafting not because I can twink MY character, but because I'm doing something that could benefit others.

One of the main issues I had with WoW was that it was all about "me me me me".. drops made the world go around, it was all about raiding to get items for yourself.

DAoC was/is based on realm versus realm, where there's more focus on helping your realm to achieve goals than in WoW and LOTRO. Crafting was a major part of this, since those who enjoyed crafting actually had a market to cater to.

I don't expect everyone to see my point, but maybe at least some of you do and understand why I think it's important to have a player based economy in a MMORPG. Otherwise it falls back to me me me, and you have just another MMORPG that only appeals to one kind of player, rather than several reasons to play.