Politics Coronavirus

[~Yuckfou~]

Probably because your post is the first time in the entire discussion I've seen any concessions given that good apples exist. Pretty sure that's been mine and @Yoni point all along, so if that's your current position, I now wonder what the point of the last two pages was?

We've been talking about the fact that there are bad apples, the good apples are not a concern.
Prick.

 

[Yoni]

They're retarded because they've been told to go to work and public transport is their only way of getting there? Fucking hell. How unpleasant are you?

I am not unpleasant in the slightest, nor am i hiding in a house in the middle of nowhere in France blaming everyone and everything for anything that is related to the UK

 

[~Yuckfou~]

I know there are people working in Spain

You know as well as I do that I started my life on the shop floor of a factory, so please fuck off I am fully aware how life works

Of course there are people working in Spain, under very strict lockdown restrictions, and with very clear guidance. I can post the Royal decree with all the details if you would like. Life here is far from "normal" however.
Otherwise your point is?

Edit: I'm not one of those allowed to work.

 

[caLLous]

Probably because your post is the first time in the entire discussion I've seen any concessions given that good apples exist. Pretty sure that's been mine and @Yoni point all along, so if that's your current position, I now wonder what the point of the last two pages was?

I was talking about the people on the tube in that tweet this morning that started this whole thing off... @Yoni's (really unkindly, I might add) calling them retards but they may well have felt that they didn't have a choice because their bosses (not all bosses, just theirs) were arseholes who told them to report for duty or else.

 

[Bodhi]

It didn't need stating because it's fucking obvious and it was never the argument. I actually pointed that out - so just because @caLLous or @~Yuckfou~ didn't bring that up explicitly - I did.

And, at no point have you "conceded" the other.


Yes. Yes it was. And it's pure deflection. Nothing more.

Zero legs to stand on @Bodhi. Many people feel forced to go to work, to disregard social distancing, for fear of their jobs.

I'm pretty sure pointing out the avenues that exist for reporting unscrupulous employers is an admission that they exist, otherwise we wouldn't need those avenues would we?

However seeing as you are so sure you are correct (as ever), I assume you'll be coming up with some numbers to back up your assertions?

 

[caLLous]

I am fully aware how life works

Your refusal to believe that there could be companies that operate in ways that aren't strictly proper and above board says otherwise...

 

[Scouse]

statistics please

Bullshit question and you know it. That's an impossible burden of proof.

Statistics to prove that it isn't happening please.

Such actions by employers would be immoral or illegal - and since we're struggling to measure coronavirus accurately how are we supposed to collate statistics about stuff people would go out of their way to actively hide.

What has been provided is evidence of what it's like on the ground - on buses and trains. And in return you've just dismissed all these people as "morons".

If you want a stat - @Bodhi brought up the tube is running at 45%. It's capacity to run at social distancing levels is 10%, according to the government.

Bring your evidence that everything is sweetness and light Yoni...

 

[Jupitus]

I am fucking lucky - my job is still secure and we are (almost) all working from home effectively. I feel privileged to be in that situation. I work for a large corporation and one which is also (seemingly) good to staff, but of course they would be as they need a squeaky clean appearance. To think, for one second, that there are not LOADS of people who don't have such a position would be a downright abuse of my moral responsibility. I feel for them, tbpfh.

 

[dysfunction]

I am fucking lucky - my job is still secure and we are (almost) all working from home effectively. I feel privileged to be in that situation. I work for a large corporation and one which is also (seemingly) good to staff, but of course they would be as they need a squeaky clean appearance. To think, for one second, that there are not LOADS of people who don't have such a position would be a downright abuse of my moral responsibility. I feel for them, tbpfh.

Yes same here.

 

[Yoni]

I am under no illusion that there are some companies that are complete and utter wankers however what is also very real is that stopping a whole country from recovering because of the few will cause more damage in the long run.

I am even luckier than most people here not only do I live in a land where citizens are treated as adults and given recommendations that "most" people are following but I work for an organisation that in Sweden is currently relatively unaffected by the virus due to work being able to carry on there has been no redundancies and minimal use of short time working.
On top of that the employees feel as we have done a survey that they are being well looked after - yes those who can not work from home. I have however worked for other companies other than this one and started my life on the shop floor on an island where unions do not exist and at the time there were no discrimiation laws at all - women still had to wear skirts to work and you could advertise in the local paper for a coloured cleaner who was under 27. I also left that hell hole with 2 suitcases and moved country with no real work as society on that island was that backward (thank god it is better there now) - so yes I know what shit is.

The reason I am defending the UK is because it appears that some of you have lost persepctive - your issues are about a few companies and a few people but there are a lot more people who will suffer needlessly if employers do not encourage and help their employees get back to work. That is why I am asking for statistics - is it 10 companys 20 companies how many people are actually being "forced" back to work?

What I find even more infuriating is that those who are whining chose not to live in the UK so are unaffected by the decisions currently being made by the government. A government that (sadly) got in by a massive majority so thanks to, in my view ,to many peoples stupidity (not the die hard Tories they knew what they were voting for), decisions can now be made without much scruitny - whose responsibility is it - it is the voters and no amount of saying it isn't fair means anything because the people making decisions were voted in and no amount of "should a / would a / could a / we need proportional represention" is going to change that outcome.

When looking at the sensationalist pictures and videos today you have got to ask yourself - why did they not wait for another bus, leave a little earlier, so that they were not put in that situation. Do you actually believe that some of them care - surely if they care that much they would not have gotten on the transportation in the first place. We have employees who are very happy to keep going to work on public transport and it was only when the PHA asked people really not to use it unless they have no option that some employees worked from home - even though many people in stockholm live in c. 25-30sqm so being home and working at home - not really good for mental health. Another interesting outcome we are seeing is that employees who can work from home are requesting more and more time in the office - currently we try to give each person 50% a week in the office if they want it - even those who became paranoid about the virus at the start are craving more and more time.

I understand that some of you believe you MUST speak for those who can't speak for themselves, all I ask is that a balanced view is taken when doing that...

 

[Scouse]

Yeah @Yoni. They don't care, so that's why they got on the bus.

Coming from someone who supports sweden's failed policy which has resulted in a lot more death relative to it's peers to no economic advantage that means almost nothing.

 

[Job]

10%. So you're only out by a factor of five. Keep on making things up though eh. Don't break the habit

And Liverpool has a much higher rate of rail journey use than most of the UK outside of London. Because the tube and rail system in Liverpool is useful.

Nope that 10% is miles travelled...trips is 2%

 

[caLLous]

Exclusive: First coronavirus antibody test given approval by Public Health England

 

[Job]

 

[~Yuckfou~]

What I find even more infuriating is that those who are whining chose not to live in the UK so are unaffected by the decisions currently being made by the government.

Last time I checked my Passport said "United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland".

 

[Yoni]

73,000 Missing Deaths: Tracking the True Toll of the Coronavirus Outbreak
UK, Italy , Equador, Spain and France rocking those top positions and accounting for 39.7k of the mow horrifically high 73k

 

[Job]

Its like the world has just found out people die.

 

[Ormorof]

Many of us criticizing Uk.gov may not live there anymore but we have family that does, so why should we not? I dont hesitate to criticize many countries governments when they do stupid shit, even if i know no one personally that lives there

We are being asked to trust, or at least not criticize, a government that has time and again shown that they willtwill happily ignore reality in favour of ideology, something many on this board adamantly claim is the preserve of "liberals" or "snowflakes"

 

[Job]

I went up to Rivington yesterday.

Holy crap, just turned around..I have never seen it so busy in 20 years.
There was a queue to get into the castle, I'd say 90% of the time I go there its completely empty.
I presume this has played out over the entire country.
Its difficult controlling the masses.

 

[Scouse]

I went up to Rivington yesterday.

Its difficult controlling the masses.

You're part of them - same decision that took you there took them there.

Hopefully they were staying 2m apart.

 

[Job]

Well obviously, yup theres still plenty of space.
The only people breaking the rule were 4 water company workers driving around in LWB Defender.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

You won't be coming here anytime soon for your Costa holidays..

Coronavirus: Spain to 'reopen borders in July' - but British holidaymakers may have to wait

 

[Embattle]

We will have summer tourist season, promises EU

 

[~Yuckfou~]

We will have summer tourist season, promises EU

"UK travellers have already been warned not to expect "lavish" international holidays, with plans for a 14-day quarantine on air arrivals"

Like I said. They don't want you here. Maybe if there was some kind of european club that allowed free movement, oh wait..

 

[DaGaffer]

Looking at the UK from the outside (am I allowed to do that? Just checking), there's only one villain of the piece, and its UKGov. You can't blame employers and workers for doing what they need to do if the Government creates massive and contradictory "advice"; let's be really clear here, everyone dumps social distancing if they have to (or if they want to), and its not just in the UK; do you think your local takeaway is social distancing? Working from home? Of course not. Do you think teenagers are social distancing? Are they fuck. But that's OK, its to be expected as you're never going to have 100% lockdown and the "flattening the curve" plan should account for that. The problem with the UK is a. their curve still isn't heading downwards (its "flat" if you want to be charitable) and b. the advice they're giving is either incompetent, or worse, wilfully designed to absolve themselves of future blame in the inevitable enquiries. "Its not our fault if the public didn't behave sensibly".

Now, you could argue that the public should be held responsible for its own actions, and "self-reliance" is built into the Tory DNA, but, the job of any government should be first and foremost to protect its people and UKGov has manifestly failed in that duty and continues to do so, not because its too hard, but because they actually only give a shit about their own power and the plebs will have forgotten all about the deaths by the next election, but they won't have forgotten about the jobless total.

On the other hand, people get the governments they deserve. You voted for these cunts, live (and die) with it.

 

[Embattle]

"UK travellers have already been warned not to expect "lavish" international holidays, with plans for a 14-day quarantine on air arrivals"

Like I said. They don't want you here. Maybe if there was some kind of european club that allowed free movement, oh wait..

Again this is the hypocrisy of some people, if the UK government had made such a statement they would of got hammered instead they took flack over the suggestion that people might have to forgo taking a summer holiday this year.

Also you may laugh but ultimately UK visitors to Europe are rather important, ironically especially for the country you claim residency in - https://www.abta.com/sites/default/files/media/document/uploads/Cebr_report_outbound_tourism.pdf

Although I've stated from the start the idea of trying to restart tourism this year is utterly fanciful for unions, governments, people to even think about.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

Again this is the hypocrisy of some people, if the UK government had made such a statement they would of got hammered instead they took flack over the suggestion that people might have to forgo taking a summer holiday this year.

Also you may laugh but ultimately UK visitors to Europe are rather important, ironically especially for the country you claim residency in - https://www.abta.com/sites/default/files/media/document/uploads/Cebr_report_outbound_tourism.pdf

Although I've stated from the start the idea of trying to restart tourism this year is utterly fanciful for unions, governments, people to even think about.

What you don't understand is that here they are putting people's health above the economy. The government have shown little willingness to open to international tourism.
National tourism will be the first to open probably June/July at the earliest. We are still in heavy lockdown with only slight easing. We cannot travel out of our province, and although some places are open there are restrictions on people allowed in, and appointments are mostly required.
So yet again you are talking arse gravy.

 

[Yoni]

Isn’t Spain is going back to work just like the UK ie blue colllar workers - do you believe none are on public transport?

 

[~Yuckfou~]

Isn’t Spain is going back to work just like the UK ie blue colllar workers - do you believe none are on public transport?

Yes "some" are back at work, but not "just like the UK", it was only last Monday we were allowed out of our local municipality let alone travel 10 or 20 mins to work. Our municipality has probably a 20 mile diameter. Of course some use public transport, although apart from the big cities the Public transport system is not great. Where we are most work in one of the local towns and drive (or walk). I'll reiterate, here is not the same as the UK. Fifty percent of the country is still in full lockdown, which is most of the north. We are in Phase 1 because of very low rates, they are still in Phase 0, so no, not going to work or anywhere else..

Edit: The phases, are adopted by region, dates are for guidance only depending on the figures.

Preparatory Phase 0: May 4 - 11

• Restaurants can offer takeaway services
• Hairdressers and other businesses that offer services via appointment can re-open
• Short walks and individual sporting activities are allowed
• Professional sports leagues can go back to training.

Phase 1: About two weeks from May 11

• All provinces that have met the requirements will move on to Phase 1 (May 11), with the exception of three of the Canary Islands, La Gomera, El Hierro and La Graciosa and the Balearic Island of Formentera, where Phase 1 began on May 4.
• People will be allowed to visit loved ones.
• Bars and restaurants can re-open their terraces with no more than 50% occupation.
• Small businesses can re-open under strict safety conditions.
• Shops and other service providers must set aside designated times for customers over 65 years of age to visit.
• Hotels and other tourist accommodation, excluding common areas, can re-open.
• Places of worship will also be reopened, but only to one-third of their capacity.
• People will be allowed to attend funerals.
• Funeral wakes will be allowed, but the number of relatives will be limited to 15 in open-air spaces, and 10 in closed areas.
• Existing timetables will remain in place until each region adjusts them to suit their needs. Therefore walks and other exercises such as running and cycling, must take place between 6 am and 10 am, or between 8 pm and 11 pm. Outings with children must take place between 12 noon and 7 pm. People who need to go out with a carer and seniors over 70 years of age have been allocated the time slots of between 10 am and 12 noon and 7 pm to 8 pm.
• Meetings of up to 10 people both inside private homes and outside are allowed.

Phase 2: About two weeks from late May

• Places of worship can increase attendance to 50% of their capacity
• Theatres, art galleries, cinemas and museums can re-open but at no more than a third of their capacity.
• Hunting and sport-fishing will be allowed.
• Some schools will be allowed to re-open, although most of them will stay closed until September.

Phase 3: Around the end of June

• Initial restrictions on restaurants and bars will be loosened further.
• Beaches will open.

Use of Vehicles

Restrictions on the use of vehicles by people living together have been criticised by the public.
So in a new order, which came into force at midnight last night (Sunday, May 10) those who live in the same household will now be able to travel in the same car, occupying all of the seats and without having to wear a mask.

This will apply to the entire country.

In the case of those who are not living in the same household, two people are allowed to travel in each row of seats, “providing that they use a mask and respect the maximum distance possible between occupants.”

This change also applies to public transport vehicles that have up to nine seats. This means that, for example, a mother will now be able to sit in the same row of seats in a taxi with her two children rather than sitting separated in different rows.

Motorcyclists will also now be able to share a vehicle without the use of a mask, but only if they live together.

 

[Scouse]

A plan with detail and timelines you say?