Politics Coronavirus

[Job]

Very nice...but no.

The weather in the UK is mostly cold and damp, the car isnt going anywhere, people dont even like scooters or motorbikes as transport in this country, let alone having to pedal like fuck at 15mph.

Ebikes maybe, but it a country where the police dont give a fuck about your stolen bike and let the thieves off with cautions and dont even bother to investigate thefts from garages.
Its going nowhere.
Id cycle to the shops, but now its a gsthering points for out of town scallies all on stolen bikes looking for the next upgrade.

Add to this the culture of working far away for increased salary and this strange bragging rights of work travel making you more socially important.

That endless dig that working in your own town is a bit failure, a lot of people suck that shit up and arent happy till theyre in a traffic jam on the M1 in a company Audi to get to that important meeting.

 

[Scouse]

Liverpool eh! :rollyeyes:

In the meantime - Oxford Professor of Epidemiology on Test, Trace, Isolate and super-spreader events...

 

[Bodhi]

Anyone any good at reading Italian? Seeing a few summaries on Twitter that CV has mutated in Italy - good news is it's mutated into something closer to a cold or flu:


View: https://twitter.com/FrancescoLari/status/1259138861076283395?s=20


Entirely common with viruses (remember the common cold is a Coronavirus), not sure if one's ever mutated this quickly before.

 

[Wij]

Nation still doing congas told to rely on its common sense

 

[caLLous]

And this is from before his address on Sunday.

 

[Bodhi]

Raghib Ali: What I've seen as an epidemiologist on the Covid-19 frontline. And why it's hard to see how the NHS now couldn't cope. | Conservative Home

Good read from someone at the front line - basically the NHS coped well with CV, but the lack of patients presenting with other symptoms is a worry. Makes me wonder about assigning all excess deaths to CV, as clearly lock down and the hysteria around the disease has caused a fair few deaths as well. For instance in my nan's home, I know that a number of residents stopped eating when they found out they could no longer have family to visit, and wouldn't be able to for months. They lost more residents through the unintended consequences of lockdown than they did through CV.

 

[Scouse]

You're literally posting articles from Conservative Home now are you @Bodhi?

Why stop there? Surely you could post a balanced and neutral party political broadcast? Or perhaps a non-partisan article from a centrist political figure full of good ideas. Like Mein Kampf?

 

[Bodhi]

Well a big deal was made about the Panorama doc that was stuffed full of Labour and Momentum activists, just thought I'd add some balance

Nice invocation of Godwin's Law - doesn't make you appear a swivel eyed loon in the slightest.

 

[Job]

Holy fucking borrowing from our kids.

UK furlough scheme extended until end of October

 

[Scouse]

Nice invocation of Godwin's Law - doesn't make you appear a swivel eyed loon in the slightest.

I thought it was a nice creative response to you briefly turning Freddyshouse into the official mouthpiece of the Tory Party. Thanks

 

[Moriath]

50,000 deaths in the UK’s coronavirus epidemic

 

[Job]

And thats no worse than 2017/18 when the flu vaccine failed and no one noticed.



And it killed far more young people in 2017/18...over 90 toddlers died.

 

[dysfunction]

Looks like the UK isn't doing a great job according to other countries views:

UK takes a pasting from world's press over coronavirus crisis

 

[Moriath]

And thats no worse than 2017/18 when the flu vaccine failed and no one noticed.

View attachment 41592

And it killed far more young people in 2017/18...over 90 toddlers died.

Yes but that was past. Ie that flu has run its course. We are only at the beginning of this epidemic.

 

[Scouse]

And thats no worse than 2017/18 when the flu vaccine failed.

If you can't understand the fact that those 50,000 deaths have come when we've shut down the country then you should stop posting. Full stop.

 

[Bodhi]

50,000 deaths in the UK’s coronavirus epidemic

Ouch, I'm reading there a hell of a lot of non-CV related deaths. Considering you don't need a positive test for CV to mentioned on the Death Certificate - just symptoms, I really don't think we're missing any - that's a hell of a lot of missed treatments, suicides etc.

 

[Yoni]

The only way to measure the human cost of the virus is in total deaths vs average this way everyone will capture the complete cost of the virus (including hunger strikes in OAP homes, sucides, stress related heart attacks etc) - This number will not be accurate for at least 12 months so every should just stop willy waving and poking fun until countries take stock of what has happened. For some countries we will never know the truth eg China. For some of the countries that posters here live in they are not even counting all of the deaths associated with CV19 (yes Spain, France, US I am looking at you..)... The UK are trying to account for their dead but because you all love not having personal numbers this is very difficult, unlike other countries like NL / Sweden / Norway / Denmark / Finland / Belgium

When countries look at the effect of the virus - Death is possibly the smallest number that will be important I think that there should be addional measurements also when each country evaluates to include:

• Domestic Abuse in adults (mental, physical and physical including sexual )
• Domestic Abuse in children (as above)
• Number of adults and children with psychological diagnosis vs average
  
• Number of family units below poverty line pre and post virus
• Number of homeless pre and post virus
• Number of child starvation cases vs average

None of the above involve the finality of death however all of them are potentially worse than death and can lead to death / suicide - I live with a psychological diagnosis and I have subject to unwanted sexual advances (dont worry not family or relationship related) - due to both of these there have been times when I have wished that I was dead...

There are already reports of a significant increase in child abuse. I know that some of you seem to only value the lives of the old and already sick but the picture is far far bigger than that and I am a bit shocked that the only people discussing these are people some of you designate the title "Tory worshipers"....

Its just very disappointing when in my view there are so many worse things in life than what I believe death brings ....

 

[Moriath]

Ryanair flyers must ask for loo as flights ramp up

Lol how stupid. I mean your in a plane with recirculated air and i am guessing the staff wont deep clean the bog between uses.

 

[Moriath]

Ouch, I'm reading there a hell of a lot of non-CV related deaths. Considering you don't need a positive test for CV to mentioned on the Death Certificate - just symptoms, I really don't think we're missing any - that's a hell of a lot of missed treatments, suicides etc.

Thats 50k deaths above the normal.

So there could be many deaths that are from covid that are not having it on the cert. or deaths that are related to the situation. But mostly point 1 i guess. Of course theres slight yearly natural variance year to year as well.

 

[Job]

The only way to measure the human cost of the virus is in total deaths vs average this way everyone will capture the complete cost of the virus (including hunger strikes in OAP homes, sucides, stress related heart attacks etc) - This number will not be accurate for at least 12 months so every should just stop willy waving and poking fun until countries take stock of what has happened. For some countries we will never know the truth eg China. For some of the countries that posters here live in they are not even counting all of the deaths associated with CV19 (yes Spain, France, US I am looking at you..)... The UK are trying to account for their dead but because you all love not having personal numbers this is very difficult, unlike other countries like NL / Sweden / Norway / Denmark / Finland / Belgium

When countries look at the effect of the virus - Death is possibly the smallest number that will be important I think that there should be addional measurements also when each country evaluates to include:

• Domestic Abuse in adults (mental, physical and physical including sexual )
• Domestic Abuse in children (as above)
• Number of adults and children with psychological diagnosis vs average
  
• Number of family units below poverty line pre and post virus
• Number of homeless pre and post virus
• Number of child starvation cases vs average

None of the above involve the finality of death however all of them are potentially worse than death and can lead to death / suicide - I live with a psychological diagnosis and I have subject to unwanted sexual advances (dont worry not family or relationship related) - due to both of these there have been times when I have wished that I was dead...

There are already reports of a significant increase in child abuse. I know that some of you seem to only value the lives of the old and already sick but the picture is far far bigger than that and I am a bit shocked that the only people discussing these are people some of you designate the title "Tory worshipers"....

Its just very disappointing when in my view there are so many worse things in life than what I believe death brings ....

Thats what Ive been saying since day one to a wave of facepalms.

 

[Job]

Thats 50k deaths above the normal.

So there could be many deaths that are from covid that are not having it on the cert. or deaths that are related to the situation. But mostly point 1 i guess. Of course theres slight yearly natural variance year to year as well.

Its not about the 'count'..its the fact that two years ago an equal number of people died and no one gave a shit.
There are plenty of hoghly respected experts who are saying we were too late with the lockdown anyway and it peaked beforehand.

Perception based hysteria.

 

[Moriath]

The only way to measure the human cost of the virus is in total deaths vs average this way everyone will capture the complete cost of the virus (including hunger strikes in OAP homes, sucides, stress related heart attacks etc) - This number will not be accurate for at least 12 months so every should just stop willy waving and poking fun until countries take stock of what has happened. For some countries we will never know the truth eg China. For some of the countries that posters here live in they are not even counting all of the deaths associated with CV19 (yes Spain, France, US I am looking at you..)... The UK are trying to account for their dead but because you all love not having personal numbers this is very difficult, unlike other countries like NL / Sweden / Norway / Denmark / Finland / Belgium

When countries look at the effect of the virus - Death is possibly the smallest number that will be important I think that there should be addional measurements also when each country evaluates to include:

• Domestic Abuse in adults (mental, physical and physical including sexual )
• Domestic Abuse in children (as above)
• Number of adults and children with psychological diagnosis vs average
  
• Number of family units below poverty line pre and post virus
• Number of homeless pre and post virus
• Number of child starvation cases vs average

None of the above involve the finality of death however all of them are potentially worse than death and can lead to death / suicide - I live with a psychological diagnosis and I have subject to unwanted sexual advances (dont worry not family or relationship related) - due to both of these there have been times when I have wished that I was dead...

There are already reports of a significant increase in child abuse. I know that some of you seem to only value the lives of the old and already sick but the picture is far far bigger than that and I am a bit shocked that the only people discussing these are people some of you designate the title "Tory worshipers"....

Its just very disappointing when in my view there are so many worse things in life than what I believe death brings ....

The most reliable View of the impact at the moment in my opinion is the excess deaths number in the uk.

yes a lot of the other stuff you mentioned is bad but we rarely get weekly crime stats.

i agree death is a better out come for the person involved than for those left behind. And being in poverty and abusive situations are a lot worse for those involved at least while they are on going.

but we have to take indicators where we can. And generally trying to get numbers outside government released figures i find more trust worthy. As long as the source is reputable.

 

[Moriath]

Its not about the 'count'..its the fact that two years ago an equal number of people died and no one gave a shit.
There are plenty of hoghly respected experts who are saying we were too late with the lockdown anyway and it peaked beforehand.

Perception based hysteria.

A lot of ppl gave a shit. 50k families gave a shit. Nhs workers gave a shit. Just because the news agencies didnt spaz about it doesnt mean that it wasnt reported at the time. (It was ) it means that death is part of life.

it also didnt stretch icu and the nhs system as covid has done.

 

[Yoni]

Thats what Ive been saying since day one to a wave of facepalms.

Not really Job - the UK (like italy / spain / Belgium / etc etc) had no option but to completely lock down - there are c.50k dead there with a hard lockdown this number would have been significantly higher if that had not happened.

 

[Yoni]

The most reliable View of the impact at the moment in my opinion is the excess deaths number in the uk.

yes a lot of the other stuff you mentioned is bad but we rarely get weekly crime stats.

i agree death is a better out come for the person involved than for those left behind. And being in poverty and abusive situations are a lot worse for those involved at least while they are on going.

but we have to take indicators where we can. And generally trying to get numbers outside government released figures i find more trust worthy. As long as the source is reputable.

Total deaths is the only way to measure right now - however the impact of lockdown / virus will be felt in societies for many many years so poking fingers and jibing should just stop until there is an understanding of the cost to society is understood.

 

[Bodhi]

A lot of ppl gave a shit. 50k families gave a shit. Nhs workers gave a shit. Just because the news agencies didnt spaz about it doesnt mean that it wasnt reported at the time. (It was ) it means that death is part of life.

it also didnt stretch icu and the nhs system as covid has done.

You'll probably actually find, that the NHS is far more overloaded during a bad flu season than it ever has been during the CV Pandemic, as pretty much everything was diverted to accommodate the patients that were expected to arrive. You'd have to say that worked, as we have never seen pictures of patients in hallways as we did from Spain/Italy, and the Nightingale hospitals have remained mostly empty. What has absolutely fucked us however, are the measures we put in place to achieve that. From moving patients en masse from hospitals to care homes without testing for CV first, to cancelling elective surgeries and cancer treatments our Public Sector (yes, including Govt) have made some fairly horrific decisions - which I can accept given the numbers of patients they were expecting but never arrived - but they now need to fix, and quickly.

However what's making us look bad at this point, is the fact that the ONS are very quick and efficient and publishing our mortality stats. When we get the full picture from Italy, Spain France - and even Germany - I suspect we will just look average. 3.5 Roentgens if you like - not great, not terrible.

 

[BloodOmen]

 

[Bodhi]

 

[Scouse]

View attachment 41596

If they wanted that message they'd have used it.

It's like they want people to take risks.

 

[Bodhi]

If they wanted that message they'd have used it.

It's like they want people to take risks.

You can see why if you read the below:

https://assets.publishing.service.g...COVID19_Epidemiological_Summary_w19_FINAL.pdf

If you comb through the very impressive amount of data Doms data terrorism department have put together, it becomes pretty clear that if you go by new cases in hospitals, calls to 111/999 and Internet searches for symptoms, the epidemic is in its closing stages in the general population. I presume Scotland are a little behind the rest of the UK but overall the worst is far clearly behind us, and we can consider all the fallout from putting the population under house arrest - mental health, domestic abuse, the economy etc etc.

Now we know more about the virus, we know what is likely to spread the disease and what isn't, hence the more nuanced message about exercising more and going back to work if its safe.