Politics Coronavirus

[Bodhi]

Choose not to have vaccine: Your fault.
Can't have vaccine because of immune system problems: Not your fault.
More susceptible to death because of asthma: Not your fault.

Triple vaxxed but 30 Stone with Type 2 Diabetes - probably their fault but grown up societies tend not to judge.

 

[Scouse]

Triple vaxxed but 30 Stone with Type 2 Diabetes

Probably won't die because you had the vaccine. Well done.

 

[Wij]

I don't get your objections to calling it their own fault if they choose not be be vaccinated @Bodhi .

I thought you libertarian types were big on freedom to choose and individual responsibility.

If they choose not to have the vaccine and die as a result as a result of their own actions then that's absolutely an individual responsibility thing unless you've morphed into a bleeding heart liberal overnight.

 

[Scouse]

I don't get your objections to calling it their own fault if they choose not be be vaccinated @Bodhi .

I thought you libertarian types were big on freedom to choose and individual responsibility.

If they choose not to have the vaccine and die as a result as a result of their own actions then that's absolutely an individual responsibility thing unless you've morphed into a bleeding heart liberal overnight.

What @Bodhi actually wants is anti-vaxxers to be seen as the unwitting victims of a conspiracy, for the whole world to realise that vaccines are really just an excuse for the governments of the world to take away our freedoms, that vaccines are meaningless and that covid never hurt anybody anyway (although anti-vaxxer deaths from covid should be treated like the queen just popped it).

Right?

 

[Raven]

I don't get your objections to calling it their own fault if they choose not be be vaccinated @Bodhi .

I thought you libertarian types were big on freedom to choose and individual responsibility.

If they choose not to have the vaccine and die as a result as a result of their own actions then that's absolutely an individual responsibility thing unless you've morphed into a bleeding heart liberal overnight.

With freedom of choice, there is freedom of consequence. One being that they should be excluded from society. As @Gwadien said, history shows us that it is not a good idea to fuck about with pandemics.

 

[Wij]

What @Bodhi actually wants is anti-vaxxers to be seen as the unwitting victims of a conspiracy, for the whole world to realise that vaccines are really just an excuse for the governments of the world to take away our freedoms, that vaccines are meaningless and that covid never hurt anybody anyway (although anti-vaxxer deaths from covid should be treated like the queen just popped it).

Right?

Individual responsibility is for 'that lot' not 'my lot'.

 

[Scouse]

With freedom of choice, there is freedom of consequence. One being that they should be excluded from society.

Still on with that fantasy I see.

The biggest impact is on the lives of the vaccinated. Anti-vaxxers simply get around the shit whilst the vaccinated are the honest ones who begrudgingly or not end up showing genuine papers.

That's a shit outcome. Especially since there's effectively no risk to the vaccinated.

Totally cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[JBP|]

Well, my 6 months from second vaccination was up on Friday and as such I was planning to sort out a booster this week.
However, as the government have created a panic buying scenario for the booster and tests I think ill be happy to wait another week or two.

 

[Scouse]

I'm just waiting for the welsh government to write to me to tell me when it's my turn.

 

[Scouse]

Probably won't die because you had the vaccine. Well done.

Care to tell us why vaccines aren't working in safeguarding people @Bodhi?

The evidence shows they're hugely effective and the people dying are the ones who haven't had it. You're THIRTY FOUR times more likely to die if you've not been vaccinated than if you have...

 

[Bodhi]

What @Bodhi actually wants is anti-vaxxers to be seen as the unwitting victims of a conspiracy, for the whole world to realise that vaccines are really just an excuse for the governments of the world to take away our freedoms, that vaccines are meaningless and that covid never hurt anybody anyway (although anti-vaxxer deaths from covid should be treated like the queen just popped it).

Right?

Think that's called projection on your part tbh. I've had two shots of AZ as it was (just) the right way to go on balance of probability and my recommendation for anyone would be to take the vaccine if possible, especially if the person in questions hasn't had a proven previous infection. However with this being a (mostly) free country and all, if someone decides not to take it I really don't have an issue with them tbh.

I just find the "serves them right" rhetoric and other attempts to paint the unvaccinated as lower class citizens disgusting tbh, and as I said, a throwback to the Good AIDS/Bad AIDS discussions of the late 80's early 90's.

 

[Bodhi]

Care to tell us why vaccines aren't working in safeguarding people @Bodhi?

The evidence shows they're hugely effective and the people dying are the ones who haven't had it. You're THIRTY FOUR times more likely to die if you've not been vaccinated than if you have...

Did I say they weren't? All I was getting at is that if you are a 30 stone with Type 2 Diabetes, even the vaccine might not save you due to the state of the rest of your health.

 

[Wij]

Think that's called projection on your part tbh. I've had two shots of AZ as it was (just) the right way to go on balance of probability and my recommendation for anyone would be to take the vaccine if possible, especially if the person in questions hasn't had a proven previous infection. However with this being a (mostly) free country and all, if someone decides not to take it I really don't have an issue with them tbh.

I just find the "serves them right" rhetoric and other attempts to paint the unvaccinated as lower class citizens disgusting tbh, and as I said, a throwback to the Good AIDS/Bad AIDS discussions of the late 80's early 90's.

I clearly didn't say serves them right. I said it was their own fault. They made a choice and got consequences. Simple.

 

[Scouse]

I just find the "serves them right" rhetoric and other attempts to paint the unvaccinated as lower class citizens disgusting tbh

I certainly didn't say "serves them right". I was at pains to point out that they matter, and that the impacts on their families is just as real as anyone elses.

However, like @Wij points out - it's 100% their fault if they've chosen not to get vaccinated. Period.

And there's absolutely righteous anger that can be thrown in their direction because their idiotic intransigence (because that is what it is) - their choice - to not get vaccinated means that the rest of the country is being saddled with freedom-restricting procedural idiocy and a more rapid spread of a deadly disease.

100% their fault.

 

[Scouse]

Did I say they weren't? All I was getting at is that if you are a 30 stone with Type 2 Diabetes, even the vaccine might not save you due to the state of the rest of your health.

Apart from the data shows that this is largely bullshit:

"In England, between 2 January and 2 July 2021, there were 51,281 deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19); 640 occurred in people who were fully vaccinated"

51,281 deaths
640 in the vaccinated population.
1.25% deaths in vaccinated
98.75% deaths in the un-vaccinated

7% of the population are diagnosed type-2 diabetic. Another million suspected. Seems that you can't put all those deaths down to diabetes can you?

Those 98.75% of deaths. The unvaccinated ones. << THEIR FAULT.

Feel for them. I really do. But for fucks sake you fucking idiots (because that is what they are) - do the whole country a favour and get vaccinated already.

 

[Bodhi]

Apart from the data shows that this is largely bullshit:

"In England, between 2 January and 2 July 2021, there were 51,281 deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19); 640 occurred in people who were fully vaccinated"

51,281 deaths
640 in the vaccinated population.
1.25% deaths in vaccinated
98.75% deaths in the un-vaccinated

7% of the population are diagnosed type-2 diabetic. Another million suspected. Seems that you can't put all those deaths down to diabetes can you?

Those 98.75% of deaths. The unvaccinated ones. << THEIR FAULT.

Feel for them. I really do. But for fucks sake you fucking idiots (because that is what they are) - do the whole country a favour and get vaccinated already.

Your data only goes to July, it's now mid-December. Any idea what the current picture is?

 

[Bodhi]

Meanwhile, in "deadly disease" news:


View: https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1470387150936059910?s=20

 

[Scouse]

Your data only goes to July, it's now mid-December. Any idea what the current picture is?

That the best you've got?

Lets say that magically it's got 20 times worse for the vaccinated. - there'd still be a 80/20 split in deaths towards the un-vaccinated.

But lets face it. It hasn't has it? You're shit out of luck m8.

 

[Scouse]

Meanwhile, in "deadly disease" news:


View: https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1470387150936059910?s=20

80% of omicron cases would be found in the fully vaccinated because there are way more vaccinated people than not?

I mean, it's not hard.

Lets just state the important stat again: 98.8% of death occurs in the un-vaccinated.


For the rest of the sensible world that got vaccinated (@Gwadien?) - knowing that statistic - do you really care about covid any more?

Edit: Can we not just rename this thread "the arsehole disease" - because only arseholes get it any more? @Jupitus?

 

[Embattle]

No we can't rename this thread since even my arsehole is smart enough to get vaccinated.

 

[Bodhi]

That the best you've got?

Lets say that magically it's got 20 times worse for the vaccinated. - there'd still be a 80/20 split in deaths towards the un-vaccinated.

But lets face it. It hasn't has it? You're shit out of luck m8.

Well it's quite pertinent as a) the data is 5 months out of date and b) we were much earlier on the the vaccination program, so the picture has undoubtedly changed.

 

[Scouse]

Well it's quite pertinent as a) the data is 5 months out of date and b) we were much earlier on the the vaccination program, so the picture has undoubtedly changed.

No. It's not pertinent at all. The picture's not going to have changed. You're grasping at straws instead of looking at yourself and going "you know what Bodhi old bean, you've been plumb wrong all along, and you're being a massive twat to even entertain the notion that a few months will change the nearly 100% death rate being in the un-vaccinated. Why not man up and just say "you know what, I was mistaken". Your ego's not that fragile, surely?"

??

But, I mean. You're going to wait until March when the next round of 6 monthly stats come round and deny that like Sony produced them too, or something, right?

 

[Bodhi]

No. It's not pertinent at all. The picture's not going to have changed. You're grasping at straws instead of looking at yourself and going "you know what Bodhi old bean, you've been plumb wrong all along, and you're being a massive twat to even entertain the notion that a few months will change the nearly 100% death rate being in the un-vaccinated. Why not man up and just say "you know what, I was mistaken". Your ego's not that fragile, surely?"

??

But, I mean. You're going to wait until March when the next round of 6 monthly stats come round and deny that like Sony produced them too, or something, right?

Of course it's pertinent you dribbling moron - you're looking at the period January to July when most of the deaths were from January to March - when all the deaths were classified as "unvaccinated" as second shots weren't generally administered until March.

So I'll ask again, what does the latest data say?

 

[Talivar]

How do death rates from COVID-19 differ between people who are vaccinated and those who are not?

To understand how the pandemic is evolving, it’s crucial to know how death rates from COVID-19 are affected by vaccination status.

ourworldindata.org

 

[Deebs]

80% of omicron cases would be found in the fully vaccinated because there are way more vaccinated people than not?

I mean, it's not hard.

Lets just state the important stat again: 98.8% of death occurs in the un-vaccinated.


For the rest of the sensible world that got vaccinated (@Gwadien?) - knowing that statistic - do you really care about covid any more?

Edit: Can we not just rename this thread "the arsehole disease" - because only arseholes get it any more? @Jupitus?

The thread will not be renamed as not accepting vaccines automatically make you an arsehole.

 

[Deebs]

Oh and you are unvaccinated in England if you do not have the booster.

 

[Overdriven]

As long as I get a free toaster the government can put whatever they want in me.

(Yes I realise how that sounds. I'm sticking by it.)

 

[Aoami]

So half the people I was out with last week have tested positive, and i've been poorly all weekend. Had a neg LF test on Sunday, but ordered a PCR now just in case. So much for going low risk!

 

[Tom]

I had my booster on Sunday, a Moderna vaccine. Felt fine for 24 hours after, and then chills, sensitive skin and tiredness for the remainder of Monday. A bit like the reaction to my first vaccination, but much weaker. I feel fine now.

I'm still taking as many precautions now as I did when it first started. I don't want this shitty virus.

One thing I didn't realise, they ask you to wait 15 minutes after you've had the injection. I asked why and the guy didn't know. So I cycled off (I choose vaccination centres that let me have a nice ride for the day). I found out later that it's to check if you have an allergic reaction to the injection.

 

[Scouse]

One thing I didn't realise, they ask you to wait 15 minutes after you've had the injection. I asked why and the guy didn't know. So I cycled off (I choose vaccination centres that let me have a nice ride for the day). I found out later that it's to check if you have an allergic reaction to the injection.

They're being extra shit-hot on this stuff. They can't afford bad press with all the anti-vaxxers about. Stuff that would usually go unreported would be front-paged and spread across social media, so they're ensuring people are on hand to manage any fallout.

I'd love to know if the 15 minute wait had actually been useful in the hundred-million-plus cases of injections we've doled out in Blighty.