Politics Coronavirus

[Scouse]

When you were at the pub did you advise him to get the jab anyway, because the science shows that there is still a benefit in terms of both efficacy of immune response and length of immunity?

I mean, I'd still go to the pub with a mate who hadn't been jabbed. 100%. But I'd call him a silly twat.

 

[Bodhi]

No. I respected his decision and we didn't mention it again.

 

[Moriath]

No. I respected his decision and we didn't mention it again.

I respect anyones decision. But they cant come crying if they havent done everything they can and they catch the damn thing.

 

[Bodhi]

I respect anyones decision. But they cant come crying if they havent done everything they can and they catch the damn thing.

I don't entirely disagree with that, however he'd already had it. Considering immunity from infection is proving to be more robust than that from the vaccines, I think he'll be fine.

 

[Aoami]

Tell him Jennifer Aniston wouldn't let him shag her

Jennifer Aniston explains cutting off unvaccinated friends

The Friends actor has elaborated on why she has "lost a few people" who have refused the jab.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Scouse]

Considering immunity from infection is proving to be more robust than that from the vaccines

Swivel-eyed Bodhi strikes again.

 

[Bodhi]

Swivel-eyed Bodhi strikes again.

Data from Israel looks pretty compelling tbh.

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection?

Nearly 40% of new COVID patients were vaccinated - compared to just 1% who had been infected previously.

www.israelnationalnews.com

And the US:

Antibody responses following SARS-CoV-2 infection more potent than vaccine-elicited ones

Researchers in the United States have conducted a study showing the difference in antibody evolution following vaccination against severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) between people who have not previously been infected with the virus and those who have.

www.news-medical.net

More from the US:

Longitudinal analysis shows durable and broad immune memory after SARS-CoV-2 infection with persisting antibody responses and memory B and T cells

Cohen et al. evaluate immune responses longitudinally in 254 COVID-19 patients over 8 months. SARS-CoV-2-specific binding and neutralizing antibodies exhibit biphasic decay, suggesting long-lived plasma cell generation. Memory B cells remain stable; CD4 and CD8 memory T cells are polyfunctional...

www.cell.com

Data from Qatar is also interesting:

DEFINE_ME

I'll assume you've got some studies to back up the "swivel eyed" accusation, when all I said that exposure to an entire virus will probably train your immune system better than being exposed to just the spike protein?

Obviously if you had the choice of either you'd take the vaccine, but if someone's already been through COVID and out the other side, the benefits of injecting them with more bits of COVID aren't really that obvious.

 

[Moriath]

Data from Israel looks pretty compelling tbh.

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection?

Nearly 40% of new COVID patients were vaccinated - compared to just 1% who had been infected previously.

www.israelnationalnews.com

And the US:

Antibody responses following SARS-CoV-2 infection more potent than vaccine-elicited ones

Researchers in the United States have conducted a study showing the difference in antibody evolution following vaccination against severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) between people who have not previously been infected with the virus and those who have.

www.news-medical.net

More from the US:

Longitudinal analysis shows durable and broad immune memory after SARS-CoV-2 infection with persisting antibody responses and memory B and T cells

Cohen et al. evaluate immune responses longitudinally in 254 COVID-19 patients over 8 months. SARS-CoV-2-specific binding and neutralizing antibodies exhibit biphasic decay, suggesting long-lived plasma cell generation. Memory B cells remain stable; CD4 and CD8 memory T cells are polyfunctional...

www.cell.com

Data from Qatar is also interesting:

DEFINE_ME

I'll assume you've got some studies to back up the "swivel eyed" accusation, when all I said that exposure to an entire virus will probably train your immune system better than being exposed to just the spike protein?

Obviously if you had the choice of either you'd take the vaccine, but if someone's already been through COVID and out the other side, the benefits of injecting them with more bits of COVID aren't really that obvious.

Denmark recommend having the vaccine within 12 months of being infected as they think immunity wanes after a while. Think its 6 months in Italy. Who have just started a requirement to go into inside entertainment places etc of needing a passport.

it would depend on how long ago he had it.

 

[Gwadien]

Boris Johnson will not isolate after Covid case among staff

No 10 says he was not in close contact with a staffer who tested positive during a visit to Scotland.

www.bbc.co.uk

I wonder if they'll u-turn within the edit timer.

 

[Raven]

They already tested the water before, nobody gave a fuck then, nobody will give a fuck now.

 

[dysfunction]

The thing is it's no hardship to get the vaccine even if you have had covid.
Just get it done. Why make such a big deal of it.

@Bodhi just likes to troll though about these sorts of things

I had Covid. I also got the Vaccine. Best to be safe than not bother

 

[Ormorof]

Denmark recommend having the vaccine within 12 months of being infected as they think immunity wanes after a while. Think its 6 months in Italy. Who have just started a requirement to go into inside entertainment places etc of needing a passport.

it would depend on how long ago he had it.

Also had Covid, have had first jab, 2nd in a few weeks. Dont really see point in not having it.

The protection from having had covid is based on statements like "the majority have some protection", i would rather not be part of the minority in this scenario

 

[Bodhi]

And you know something? I completely respect that choice as well. I'm not necessarily pro or anti vaxx (medical treatments seem a strange thing to be pro or anti in my view), but I'm pro informed choice.

If me mate had started wanking on about Bill Gates and 5G Nanoparticles my response would have been different, but as his choice doesn't really affect anyone but himself, I don't see the issue.

There's also an element of "Well me and my family have had ours, so I don't really give too much of a toss what others do"

 

[Ormorof]

Well, it kinda does affect other people thats kinda the point

 

[Ormorof]

I kinda realised a bit late that i kinda used kinda twice in a kinda sentence, it was kinda not my intention and now i kinda cant edit. Kinda

 

[Gwadien]

I kinda realised a bit late that i kinda used kinda twice in a kinda sentence, it was kinda not my intention and now i kinda cant edit. Kinda

So you kinda made a kinda post kinda showing the kinda fact that you used kinda multiple times in your kinda sentence? Kinda

 

[Ormorof]

So you kinda made a kinda post kinda showing the kinda fact that you used kinda multiple times in your kinda sentence? Kinda

I kinda did

 

[Bodhi]

Well, it kinda does affect other people thats kinda the point

Given his previous confirmed infection it kinda doesn't, that's kinda how the immune system works.

Seems kinda weird to be called swivel eyed for suggesting if the immune system has fought a pathogen off once, it knows how to deal with it again.

 

[Ormorof]

Given his previous confirmed infection it kinda doesn't, that's kinda how the immune system works.

Seems kinda weird to be called swivel eyed for suggesting if the immune system has fought a pathogen off once, it knows how to deal with it again.

At least Finnish healthcare claims it may offer some protection, but protection is better with vaccine than without, regardless of whether you have had corona before. Seems like a silly decision not to take it when you can take it. I would 100% take the piss out of a friend that made that choice tbh

 

[Embattle]

Even if you are double vaccinated you ultimately want to reduce the chance for transmission as much as possible, each time it jumps there will naturally be a risk it creates a new variant as it has to evolve thus this notion of being double vaccinated makes everything hunky dory is rubbish and rathe dangerous.

 

[Moriath]

Even if you are double vaccinated you ultimately want to reduce the chance for transmission as much as possible, each time it jumps there will naturally be a risk it creates a new variant as it has to evolve thus this notion of being double vaccinated makes everything hunky dory is rubbish and rathe dangerous.

Yes thats true. The same with any virus.

it can only mutate so much before it becomes untransmissable though. If thats a word.

so a mutation that makes it more dangerous may prevent it from being able to jump.

but its a risk.

so how do you propose we prevent transmission more than we are without locking down again?

 

[Embattle]

Yes thats true. The same with any virus.

it can only mutate so much before it becomes untransmissable though. If thats a word.

so a mutation that makes it more dangerous may prevent it from being able to jump.

but its a risk.

so how do you propose we prevent transmission more than we are without locking down again?

Try not to do your usual in making it sound like those who suggest caution are implying lockdowns, it seems to be a trait used a little too often by people on the extremes.

 

[Moriath]

Try not to do your usual in making it sound like those who suggest caution are implying lockdowns, it seems to be a trait used a little too often by people on the extremes.

I didnt think you were suggesting a lockdown. I was asking what other than a lockdown could be implemented to reduce the risk of mutations from where we are at the moment.

i dont think i usually imply lockdowns = caution.

are you just proposing people take more responsibility for themselves or is there something else you might see working?

 

[Bodhi]

Prof Francois Balloux: ‘The pandemic has created a market for gloom and doom’

The UCL scientist and ‘militant corona centrist’ on the risk of new variants, psychosomatic long Covid and when he expects the crisis to end

www.theguardian.com

 

[Embattle]

I didnt think you were suggesting a lockdown. I was asking what other than a lockdown could be implemented to reduce the risk of mutations from where we are at the moment.

i dont think i usually imply lockdowns = caution.

are you just proposing people take more responsibility for themselves or is there something else you might see working?

A lot of it is about responsibility but it also comes with the realisation what the current state of play is and what it sure as hell isn't, a careless pre covid attitude at the moment. Lets look at a couple of key points, mainly from the UK:

Virus

• Covid vaccinations are not 100% effective, even after being double jabbed against the variant they were originally designed to deal with they have a 90% efficacy.
• Against the Delta variant this drops to around 70%.
• It is estimated that the vaccines reduce transmission by 40-60%.

Uptake

• Uptake is currently sitting first dose at 88.9% and at 74.1% for the second dose.
• Uptake numbers exclude just over 21% of the population, which until recently is everyone under 18.
• Uptake is slowing as it meets those who resist the ideas of vaccination.
• Some people can't have the vaccination for medical reasons, some for religious reasons.
• Worldwide uptake is around 30% for the first dose and just over 15% for the second dose.

Reporting

• Many people have stopped themselves getting pinged by removing the application.
• The app wasn't really the problem, it was always going to ping more people since the rules changed and more people were bound to get infected and detected.
• Some information points to a lack of reporting covid when compared to the more randomised ONS data.

I'm not suggesting lets all go into hiding again but I'm also not going to be quite as blasé as quite a few people seem to be. When you actually look at the other numbers you can be positive about lower hospital numbers and lower deaths but when you consider the accumulated effect of some of the above percentages there is still a wide vector for the virus to make a move.

 

[Moriath]

A lot of it is about responsibility but it also comes with the realisation what the current state of play is and what it sure as hell isn't, a careless pre covid attitude at the moment. Lets look at a couple of key points, mainly from the UK:

Virus

• Covid vaccinations are not 100% effective, even after being double jabbed against the variant they were originally designed to deal with they have a 90% efficacy.
• Against the Delta variant this drops to around 70%.
• It is estimated that the vaccines reduce transmission by 40-60%.

Uptake

• Uptake is currently sitting first dose at 88.9% and at 74.1% for the second dose.
• Uptake numbers exclude just over 21% of the population, which until recently is everyone under 18.
• Uptake is slowing as it meets those who resist the ideas of vaccination.
• Some people can't have the vaccination for medical reasons, some for religious reasons.
• Worldwide uptake is around 30% for the first dose and just over 15% for the second dose.

Reporting

• Many people have stopped themselves getting pinged by removing the application.
• The app wasn't really the problem, it was always going to ping more people since the rules changed and more people were bound to get infected and detected.
• Some information points to a lack of reporting covid when compared to the more randomised ONS data.

I'm not suggesting lets all go into hiding again but I'm also not going to be quite as blasé as quite a few people seem to be. When you actually look at the other numbers you can be positive about lower hospital numbers and lower deaths but when you consider the accumulated effect of some of the above percentages there is still a wide vector for the virus to make a move.

Interesting. And I agree with what you say.

but unless we have a 100% effective vaccine then we have to move towards living with the virus in circulation.

and unless we have a 100% effective vaccine there will always be opportunity for it to mutate.

what would you think is an acceptable % of the population to be vaccinated before removing precautions? Or we should keep some indefinately. Because a lot of the other virus types have been suppressed as well which has made the population less contagious as a whole.

i am happy with international travel restrictions and think its a good thing overall. And maybe we should agree to a % of population vaccinated before casual travel is started up again.

personally i havent been going out much in the last month. Not much different to when the restrictions were in place. But it has been nice to see the football terraces full this weekend.

i feel sorry for those who are unable to be vaccinated and the immuno suppressed.

but we cannot hold the whole of the population back because of a small percentage.

ofcourse if you hold the view that every life is sacrosanct then you have to make sure that everyone is going to survive. But I dont believe thats possible. Unfortunately.

 

[Gwadien]

I'm gonna leave booking my test until the last minute, they're all over the news, I'd imagine something will happen soon.

 

[Raven]

Covid: Germany fears thousands got saline, not vaccine from nurse

More than 8,000 mostly elderly people are urged to get vaccinated again as a nurse is questioned.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Moriath]

Covid: Germany fears thousands got saline, not vaccine from nurse

More than 8,000 mostly elderly people are urged to get vaccinated again as a nurse is questioned.

www.bbc.co.uk

Oops

 

[Wij]

Oops

Better than monkey spunk I guess.