Politics Coronavirus

[Moriath]

In the US?

Just what I said. Judges are basically re-writing law according to their own personal biases.

Yup the usa. And yup the judge made his own version of the law.

 

[Scouse]

So we should tolerate dickheads instead? No ta.

Lost his job and is in the papers so any cursory search by corporates will dog him.

A criminal record too? Sorry, it's harsh.

 

[Hawkwind]

America is going to shit. Prosecutions seem to based on politics rather than law. I read that shootings are up over 400% in some cities, bloody crazy.

 

[MYstIC G]

Lost his job and is in the papers so any cursory search by corporates will dog him.

A criminal record too? Sorry, it's harsh.

He made a choice, it's now having consequences. Other choices were available.

What's harsh is that some escape their consequences.

 

[Wij]

He made a choice, it's now having consequences. Other choices were available.

What's harsh is that some escape their consequences.

Yup.

 

[Moriath]

Lost his job and is in the papers so any cursory search by corporates will dog him.

A criminal record too? Sorry, it's harsh.

The law is completely separate from both of those things.

if he broke the law he should be tried to see if he is needing Of punishment.

the others are just civil consequences.

sooner you see both as different courts of judgement the better.

 

[Aoami]

He made a choice, it's now having consequences. Other choices were available.

What's harsh is that some escape their consequences.

He got pissed and asked a man for a photo. He didn't kill someone.

 

[Embattle]

He got pissed and asked a man for a photo. He didn't kill someone.

No he didn't ask for a photo he harassed someone and got a video of him doing so.

 

[Scouse]

He made a choice, it's now having consequences. Other choices were available.

What's harsh is that some escape their consequences.

Drunken carried away excitement at seeing one of the most famous pivotal figures involved in locking him away and restricting his freedoms for the last 18 months and a ham-fisted attempt to cajole him into a selfie.

Stupid? Undoubtedly. Malicious?

Losing his job and having his face all over the news for further employers to see seems apt punishment to me. And probably Mr Whitty too as he didn't want to press charges.

Desire to see the above drunken idiocy ruin an entire life - for that is what a criminal conviction does - seems to me to be overly vindictive.

We've all done fucking stupid non-malicious things when we were young and dumb that we probably regret now that if plod got involved would have properly fucked us.

The fact that they've ignored the victim's wishes also troubles me. If I was Whitty I'd actually feel an enduring sadness at the outcome of the event that I'd always remember. But if plod had done as instructed in his express wish - "I don't want to press charges" - then that feeling wouldn't manifest.

"Making an example" of the proles generally means "putting the boot in to make everyone else scared and wary" - which is not about justice nor a decent way to run a civilised country. (And it's the proles who need the "examples" made of them right? You can bet your bottom dollar that if the lads were members of the bullingdon club it would have been dismissed as "overexhuberence" and plod would have said "Whitty doesn't want to press charges and that's the end of it").

What I'm really most disappointed about is that even knowing the above a lot of people seem to want to put the boot in.

 

[Raven]

Tinfoil hat moment.

Hancock self leaked. The clench seems too front of camera, body language is weird, mechanical, yes I know it's a dead-behind-the-eyes Tory but still...

Timing, corners are being checked, failed Rona response questions are being asked, an electorate that has a very short memory.

Easy way out.

He will be back in cabinet in a couple of years, ready to dismantle the NHS

 

[MYstIC G]

Drunken carried away excitement at seeing one of the most famous pivotal figures involved in locking him away and restricting his freedoms for the last 18 months and a ham-fisted attempt to cajole him into a selfie.

Stupid? Undoubtedly. Malicious?

Losing his job and having his face all over the news for further employers to see seems apt punishment to me. And probably Mr Whitty too as he didn't want to press charges.

Desire to see the above drunken idiocy ruin an entire life - for that is what a criminal conviction does - seems to me to be overly vindictive.

We've all done fucking stupid non-malicious things when we were young and dumb that we probably regret now that if plod got involved would have properly fucked us.

The fact that they've ignored the victim's wishes also troubles me. If I was Whitty I'd actually feel an enduring sadness at the outcome of the event that I'd always remember. But if plod had done as instructed in his express wish - "I don't want to press charges" - then that feeling wouldn't manifest.

"Making an example" of the proles generally means "putting the boot in to make everyone else scared and wary" - which is not about justice nor a decent way to run a civilised country. (And it's the proles who need the "examples" made of them right? You can bet your bottom dollar that if the lads were members of the bullingdon club it would have been dismissed as "overexhuberence" and plod would have said "Whitty doesn't want to press charges and that's the end of it").

What I'm really most disappointed about is that even knowing the above a lot of people seem to want to put the boot in.

Interpretive history at its best...

Nobody to blame but himself, nobody forced him to drink.

Maybe we should try it your way where we all should be personally responsible for fucking up the planet but not responsible for anything if we're just dicking about then, eh?

 

[Scouse]

Nobody to blame but himself, nobody forced him to drink.

I don't get what you're driving at Meg. Nobody is disputing that what they did was wrong.

The argument is that the consequences of those actions, now the police have decided to press ahead with criminal charges that the vicitm himself didn't want to press ahead with, is overly harsh for the crime committed. I've offered a supporting argument.

I'd love to hear your reasons why you think the consequences as described are reasonable because right now I just see someone who's happy to give these young men a kicking out of all proportion to what they've actually done.

 

[MYstIC G]

I don't get what you're driving at Meg. Nobody is disputing that what they did was wrong.

The argument is that the consequences of those actions, now the police have decided to press ahead with criminal charges that the vicitm himself didn't want to press ahead with, is overly harsh for the crime committed. I've offered a supporting argument.

I'd love to hear your reasons why you think the consequences as described are reasonable because right now I just see someone who's happy to give these young men a kicking out of all proportion to what they've actually done.

Because that behaviour isn't reasonable and if it was then there would be no criminal charges

 

[Scouse]

Because that behaviour isn't reasonable and if it was then there would be no criminal charges

That answer doesn't address any of the points I made.

 

[Moriath]

That answer doesn't address any of the points I made.

Cps decided to go ahead not the police. They submit evidence and ask if the prosecution is in the public interest and that the evidence is there.

that the above and the court of public opinion are separate. And he has seen so many people getting fucked posting stuff on facebook and does the same.

 

[Gwadien]

The emptiest of gestures...

Royals celebrate NHS anniversary with George Cross and tea party

The Queen awards the NHS the George Cross while Prince William attends a thanksgiving service.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Gwadien]

Why the disagree @dysfunction it's pretty clear this is directed from the Government in preparation for the NHS to be fucked over again by the same government that has sleazed enough to cover a nice pay rise.

 

[Scouse]

Why the disagree @dysfunction it's pretty clear this is directed from the Government in preparation for the NHS to be fucked over again by the same government that has sleazed enough to cover a nice pay rise.

TBH - they should be getting a pay rise in line with inflation.

A bonus for their efforts over the past year is a different conversation. But a permanent increase in the major cost-base of the NHS of 15% (which appears to be a demand) is just fantasy thinking.

 

[Gwadien]

TBH - they should be getting a pay rise in line with inflation.

A bonus for their efforts over the past year is a different conversation. But a permanent increase in the major cost-base of the NHS of 15% (which appears to be a demand) is just fantasy thinking.

I think blank cheques for Tory mates is more of a fantasy, but that happened

 

[Raven]

Front line staff, give them it. The absolute army of middle management that appear to exist to keep duplication from going out of fashion, can be cut.

 

[Gwadien]

Front line staff, give them it. The absolute army of middle management that appear to exist to keep duplication from going out of fashion, can be cut.

Oh yeah, absolutely.

And the millions of IT contractors that take the absolute piss out of the public purse, fuck them too.

But it won't happen, it'll have to be 'equal'.

 

[Scouse]

Front line staff, give them it.

Why? What about the legions of people running exceptionally long hours back end doing research, organisational and operational activities?

The NHS did it's job. Pandemic response is part of the remit.

An exceptional bonus may well be appropriate but across the board cost base change?

 

[Wij]

TBH - they should be getting a pay rise in line with inflation.

A bonus for their efforts over the past year is a different conversation. But a permanent increase in the major cost-base of the NHS of 15% (which appears to be a demand) is just fantasy thinking.

Their real-terms pay has decreased by more than 15% in recent years. Sure it's not going to happen but support for a real-terms INCREASE for a change would be nice comrade.

 

[Gwadien]

Their real-terms pay has decreased by more than 15% in recent years. Sure it's not going to happen but support for a real-terms INCREASE for a change would be nice comrade.

Seems weird to me that people are happy to see an eventual (it's going to happen lets face it) increase in taxation to pay for the Tories incompetence and cronyism, but not for an increase to pay for our most important workers.

 

[Scouse]

Their real-terms pay has decreased by more than 15% in recent years. Sure it's not going to happen but support for a real-terms INCREASE for a change would be nice comrade.

Have they not been getting yearly inflationary increases?

Don't agree with the salary drive down if that's been happening. Unless it's part of a Tory scheme to make salaries under whatever privatised dream they're concocting seem much more attractive to destitute staff?

But I'm not for a pay rise "just because" for a sector of society. (I'm more interesting in reviewing our whole model of work for everyone, than increasing a cost base under the current system - because a rise there simply means a cut somewhere else).

 

[Bodhi]

Front line staff, give them it. The absolute army of middle management that appear to exist to keep duplication from going out of fashion, can be cut.

I'd be in favour of giving front line staff - especially nurses - a raise, but the George's Cross seems a bit OTT, given that anyone who signs up to work in the NHS typically understands about things like pandemics, so it's a (fairly extreme) part of the job. They should be rewarded for the last 12 months (apart from the infamous ones who spent the time making TikTok videos), absolutely.

But in terms of the award I'd rather that went to the truly unsung heroes of the pandemic - supermarket workers / delivery drivers. They've been open since the very beginning, interacting with the general public day in, day out, dealing with one way systems, bickering customers, fights over bogroll etc etc - all with limited PPE initially. Without them and the army of Amazon Delivery drivers keeping people in random tat, we'd have been fucked the last 12 months - I would have given it about 3 weeks before things descended into anarchy.

 

[Gwadien]

I'd be in favour of giving front line staff - especially nurses - a raise, but the George's Cross seems a bit OTT, given that anyone who signs up to work in the NHS typically understands about things like pandemics, so it's a (fairly extreme) part of the job. They should be rewarded for the last 12 months (apart from the infamous ones who spent the time making TikTok videos), absolutely.

But in terms of the award I'd rather that went to the truly unsung heroes of the pandemic - supermarket workers / delivery drivers. They've been open since the very beginning, interacting with the general public day in, day out, dealing with one way systems, bickering customers, fights over bogroll etc etc - all with limited PPE initially. Without them and the army of Amazon Delivery drivers keeping people in random tat, we'd have been fucked the last 12 months - I would have given it about 3 weeks before things descended into anarchy.

Let's increase the minimum wage then?

 

[Scouse]

Let's increase the minimum wage then?

Lets pass a law that makes companies pay a wage that means their employees no longer receive in-work benefits.

Tescos, for example, pays so little that a lot of their workers receive government handouts.

Yet tesco pay shareholder dividends - therefore taxpayer money is getting paid to shareholders.

 

[Gwadien]

Lets pass a law that makes companies pay a wage that means their employees no longer receive in-work benefits.

Tescos, for example, pays so little that a lot of their workers receive government handouts.

Yet tesco pay shareholder dividends - therefore taxpayer money is getting paid to shareholders.

But that's like a core policy of neo-Conservativism.

 

[Embattle]

Lets pass a law that makes companies pay a wage that means their employees no longer receive in-work benefits.

Tescos, for example, pays so little that a lot of their workers receive government handouts.

Yet tesco pay shareholder dividends - therefore taxpayer money is getting paid to shareholders.

I vaguely remember seeing David Starkey on believe it was on Newsnight he was involved in a chat about something and it somehow touched on benefits, his opinion was that in reality they shouldn't exist because they are little more than the government subsidising companies.