Politics Coronavirus

[Wij]

Fuck me:


View: https://twitter.com/PokerPolitics/status/1395520566954713088

 

[Scouse]

A couple of well-respected scientists did point out that this sort of virus could well have been man made and could well have come from a lab due to lax biosecurity procedures - and that there are good examples of just this sort of thing. We also know that the US were indeed funding some research in the Wuhan lab.

But since we'll never be able to prove it either way, as the scientists pointed out, who cares.

 

[Raven]

I don't think it was man made, and it won't be the last virus to come out of the wilds, especially when people will eat anything that moves.

 

[Gwadien]

I think the suggestions that it was man made is to make people feel happier than we don't have any control over nature.

 

[Embattle]

I think it is easier to consider it human assisted.

 

[Scouse]

Honestly, it may well be. But probably isn't. But we'll never really know either way.

The point about "eating everything that moves" is more about ecological devastation than anything else. Scientists have looooong been warning about exactly this sort of scenario.

 

[Zarjazz]

A couple of well-respected scientists did point out that this sort of virus could well have been man made and could well have come from a lab due to lax biosecurity procedures - and that there are good examples of just this sort of thing. We also know that the US were indeed funding some research in the Wuhan lab.

But since we'll never be able to prove it either way, as the scientists pointed out, who cares.

Of course Wuhan got US funding. Before all this is was an internationally renowned and respected research centre that had produced widely read papers into exactly these kind of virii.

I know its Reddit but this post explains all the technical reasons why it is provably not man made -
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/gk6y95/covid19_did_not_come_from_the_wuhan_institute_of/


As for the global transmission spread well as the saying goes - never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

 

[Wij]

Good stuff @Zarjazz.

Unfortunately to the people on Fox or in the GOP this will all seem 'toooo convenient'. The fact that there is a virus lab in Wuhan and that it has worked with elements in the US on ANYTHING is all the 'evidence' they need.

I'm not even sure what their conspiracy theory is because Trump was in charge of the US at the time but I'm sure it all makes sense inside their dumb, fucking heads.

 

[Bodhi]

Seems to be plenty of scientists who think the Lab Leak hypothesis is worth further investigation, as reported below by the GOP's pet newspaper:

Another Group of Scientists Calls for Further Inquiry Into Origins of the Coronavirus (Published 2021)

Researchers urge an open mind, saying lack of evidence leaves theories of natural spillover and laboratory leak both viable.

www.nytimes.com

Apparently they needn't bother, as some dude off Reddit says it couldn't possibly be the case.

 

[Raven]

Completely mental...

 

[Wij]

Seems to be plenty of scientists who think the Lab Leak hypothesis is worth further investigation, as reported below by the GOP's pet newspaper:

Another Group of Scientists Calls for Further Inquiry Into Origins of the Coronavirus (Published 2021)

Researchers urge an open mind, saying lack of evidence leaves theories of natural spillover and laboratory leak both viable.

www.nytimes.com

Apparently they needn't bother, as some dude off Reddit says it couldn't possibly be the case.

Clutching at straws there. The scientists quoted in the article are looking for more definitive proof between zoonotic origin in the wild and accidental lab release. They aren't saying it is one or the other and seem to agree that just looking at the virus itself points towards the former.

They certainly aren't supporting the idea that it was a deliberate release co-ordinated with the US 'deep-state.' That is the theory of the mentally-challenged.

Even the theory of accidental release is unlikely because the first people to show symptoms were not related to the lab in any way. Also the lab upgraded to the absolute top-tier of safety certification a few years before the outbreak, as certified by their French partners.

 

[Scouse]

They certainly aren't supporting the idea that it was a deliberate release co-ordinated with the US 'deep-state.

Yep. Only wankers are saying that.

but, as they say:

lack of evidence leaves theories of natural spillover and laboratory leak both viable

because, whilst I agree it's unlikely:

the lab upgraded to the absolute top-tier of safety certification a few years before the outbreak

This shit hasn't stopped it happening in the past. "Top tier" actually is still too leaky. We're not very good at not leaking, even with our best biosecurity measures.

And with the right (or rather, wrong) virus, all it takes is one leak.

Frankly - it's likely transmission from animal to human. That's what the evidence supports. But we cannot rule out the lab - and that is largely because stuff is being done in secret and they won't give us free access to all the evidence. And even if they say they are - we can't trust them to be telling the truth. Once bitten, twice shy and all.

So the possibility still exists - we may have done this to ourselves and it's not "crackpot" to suggest it. "We cannot rule it out because of lack of evidence" is actually the most rational stance.

 

[Wij]

Yep. Only wankers are saying that.

but, as they say:

because, whilst I agree it's unlikely:

This shit hasn't stopped it happening in the past. "Top tier" actually is still too leaky. We're not very good at not leaking, even with our best biosecurity measures.

And with the right (or rather, wrong) virus, all it takes is one leak.

Frankly - it's likely transmission from animal to human. That's what the evidence supports. But we cannot rule out the lab - and that is largely because stuff is being done in secret and they won't give us free access to all the evidence. And even if they say they are - we can't trust them to be telling the truth. Once bitten, twice shy and all.

So the possibility still exists - we may have done this to ourselves and it's not "crackpot" to suggest it. "We cannot rule it out because of lack of evidence" is actually the most rational stance.

BL4 didn't exist until recently and accidental release has dropped off massively since then.

The Wuhan lab sends out samples all the time as all similar labs do so they can check each others work. Ensuring you've got every bit of RNA sequenced from every sample is hard. They'd have to know which virus they were looking for AND be sure that the RNA sampling they were doing was 100% accurate every time (which no one else can do) in order to make sure they hadn't released a sample containing Covid19 and therefore proving that they had had some.

Not IMPOSSIBLE but very very unlikely.

And it wouldn't explain why the first cases were in rural Hubei, not Wuhan.

 

[Scouse]

Don't really care for the argument @Wij. The point is that it's possible. And that we don't have the evidence to rule it out.

If we believe in science and actual evidence - then the only answer is "we don't know - we think it's likely this, but we don't actually know."

 

[Raven]

No, it is actually mental to think it was released on purpose and extremely unlikely that it was leaked by accident. For all China's faults, they do things properly...mostly because they aren't all that keen on dying a lot.

 

[Scouse]

Horses mouth:

Dominic Cummings claims ministers backed herd immunity against Covid

PM’s ex-adviser says if ‘competent’ people had been in charge at least two lockdowns could have been avoided

www.theguardian.com

 

[Wij]

Horses mouth:

Dominic Cummings claims ministers backed herd immunity against Covid

PM’s ex-adviser says if ‘competent’ people had been in charge at least two lockdowns could have been avoided

www.theguardian.com

He also confirmed that 'herd immunity' (basically letting the virus win) was THE strategy initially and called Hancock a liar for denying it.

 

[Wij]

(and yes, I appreciate that being called a liar by Cummings is a bit like being called a nonce by Jimmy Savile)

 

[dysfunction]

Not that any of this will make slightest bit of difference to Tories as they are smothered in Teflon at the moment.

Which is why when Boris realised he could pretty much do anything and people still vote for the party he could happily let Cummings go.

 

[Scouse]

What's the facepalm for @Embattle?

Closest advisor to Boris Johnson, personally selected by BoJo, was at the heart of decisionmaking at the start of covid (and of a scandal where he was sent to sit on the 'independent' SAGE committee) and he says herd immunity was the policy.

I recall facepalms from the tory voters on this board when we were discussing the fact that they were clearly following herd immunity in March last year - stating that it was the wrong policy and that it would lead to a lot of death.

Oh look. 130,000 dead.

So. Explain please.

 

[Embattle]

Mainly how many people who dislike/distrust him suddenly think christ has been born again and his name is Dominic Cummings.

 

[Wij]

Mainly how many people who dislike/distrust him suddenly think christ has been born again and his name is Dominic Cummings.

That's not even remotely true. I even qualified what I said about him to precisely avoid such an accusation. Treating it like some own like we've just elected him King of the Libtards doesn't make sense.

 

[Deebs]

Had my 2nd jab this morning Hope the arm does not ache as much as last time. Was talking to the nurse, they are currently doing around 1,000 ppl per day at this site for both 1st and 2nd jabs.

 

[Moriath]

Mainly how many people who dislike/distrust him suddenly think christ has been born again and his name is Dominic Cummings.

I agree a bit. He is bitter and trying to spin things against the government. He talks about how the government should have been more open. When he has been anything but open in any questions directed at him.
No smoke without fire and stuff. Im sure some of it is based in truth but the way its presented is something that he is good at manipulating.

 

[Scouse]

I agree a bit. He is bitter and trying to spin things against the government. He talks about how the government should have been more open. When he has been anything but open in any questions directed at him.
No smoke without fire and stuff. Im sure some of it is based in truth but the way its presented is something that he is good at manipulating.

No.

When he was working for government he was paid to toe the party line. He was paid by the government to do a job.

Now he's not.

 

[Scouse]

That's not even remotely true. I even qualified what I said about him to precisely avoid such an accusation. Treating it like some own like we've just elected him King of the Libtards doesn't make sense.

Yep.

It's just the standard mental flips and twists from the tory fanbois to justify their continued support, even in the face of wholesale death, economic destruction and a year's worth of countrywide imprisonment.

They don't like "I told you so" - especially when you can point at us telling them at the time.

 

[Scouse]

Upgraded to bullshit eh @Embattle?

Tell us how we're wong.

 

[Deebs]

Careful what you wish for. Arm is feeling like someone is constantly punching it. Cannot lift it above shoulder height.

 

[Tom]

Got a text this morning reminding me of day 8 of my 2 & 8 day test. So I took it, went online to register, and the web form says it's too early to take.

The second day test is before or on the second day. So you'd think the day eight test would be the same, right? Nope, it's on or after the eighth day. So now my test is in the fridge. But that wasn't before I discovered that there is no second label in the test kit to let me register it online (the instructions say there is). So I had to cut the bag open and get the number off the tube, then sellotape it back up. And the url on the instructions is wrong too, it just 404's.

£200 for this shit. And I had NHS test and trace calling me every day, I told them not to, said if I had a problem I'd call them. They say they have to call me no matter what. So I blocked their number.

 

[dysfunction]

Got a text this morning reminding me of day 8 of my 2 & 8 day test. So I took it, went online to register, and the web form says it's too early to take.

The second day test is before or on the second day. So you'd think the day eight test would be the same, right? Nope, it's on or after the eighth day. So now my test is in the fridge. But that wasn't before I discovered that there is no second label in the test kit to let me register it online (the instructions say there is). So I had to cut the bag open and get the number off the tube, then sellotape it back up. And the url on the instructions is wrong too, it just 404's.

£200 for this shit. And I had NHS test and trace calling me every day, I told them not to, said if I had a problem I'd call them. They say they have to call me no matter what. So I blocked their number.

what are these tests for?