Politics Coronavirus

[Tay]

You can double down all you want chap, but all you've done is prove again how poor your understanding of the topics at hand are. You've even had someone who lives in Sweden calling out your bullshit, and yet you carry on like a demented parrot.

I could post the SAGE research which shows adherance to the rules in the UK is over 90%, or point out that if these gatherings are making the news then they probably aren't that common - otherwise they wouldn't be news, but you'll just ignore that as usual so I shan't bother.

So in summary, you're still wrong.

Double down? you complete muppet.

I made 3-4 points and the only thing you got right was a fucking typo/spelling error, thats it. You fool.

I've quoted a single except that disputed your claims of no changes in Sweden and you don't like it. You were wrong, just fucking admit it.

As for the SAGE research on adherence, Several docs by SAGE and the BMJ have raised concerns about the adherence, mainly through different sectors of society, citing pandemic fatigue, so, the 90% looks good on paper but in reality its impossible to measure.

So, unless you are going to directly address the specific points I raised and you have yet to discredit, don't bother replying.

 

[Tay]

Anyway, test done. Pretty painless, will wait and see.

PCR test?

I had one a few weeks back, throat...eick...nose fine..!!

 

[Raven]

Yeah, that's the one, other way round for me, throat was fine but up my nose really bothered me!

 

[Tom]

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!

Lo @Tom. How's tricks?

You keeping Covid free? How's the recumbent?

Covid-free, although a mate of mine has had it (he's ok). I've had about 10 tests so far. But it has ruined my industry and I'm only still paying the bills because I'm a sole trader and not ltd (as many of my colleagues are). No idea how long that will continue. And I'm thoroughly sick of telling people to keep away from me, and sick of seeing people walking into supermarkets not using the hand gel, etc. Part of me feels that many people in this country deserve to catch it.

On the recumbent front I'm now looking at Ice Trikes, specifically an Adventure e-trike, but that's currently a long way off.

 

[Bodhi]

Double down? you complete muppet.

I made 3-4 points and the only thing you got right was a fucking typo/spelling error, thats it. You fool.

I've quoted a single except that disputed your claims of no changes in Sweden and you don't like it. You were wrong, just fucking admit it.

As for the SAGE research on adherence, Several docs by SAGE and the BMJ have raised concerns about the adherence, mainly through different sectors of society, citing pandemic fatigue, so, the 90% looks good on paper but in reality its impossible to measure.

So, unless you are going to directly address the specific points I raised and you have yet to discredit, don't bother replying.

I have addressed the points you raised. That was the part of my post where I said you were wrong. Duh.

HTH.

 

[Tay]

I have addressed the points you raised. That was the part of my post where I said you were wrong. Duh.

HTH.

I mentioned herd immunity and how it had been clearly documented in videos and expert publications around the world, a fact you denied, it wasnt a deniable point, its out there in dozens and dozens of well respected publications.

I made a point about Sweden being better with their general conformity to the rules than the UK. A point you clearly don't agree with.

I then mentioned that even Swedens strategy is changing, partial lockdowns, face masks, a point you denied and our friend from Sweden denied, but it's a documented fact.

You can bluster and throw in little quips all you like, but it doesn't change the facts.

HTH

 

[Yoni]

I mentioned herd immunity and how it had been clearly documented in videos and expert publications around the world, a fact you denied, it wasnt a deniable point, its out there in dozens and dozens of well respected publications.

I made a point about Sweden being better with their general conformity to the rules than the UK. A point you clearly don't agree with.

I then mentioned that even Swedens strategy is changing, partial lockdowns, face masks, a point you denied and our friend from Sweden denied, but it's a documented fact.

You can bluster and throw in little quips all you like, but it doesn't change the facts.

HTH

The strategy is not changing though that is what you do not understand.... there is no partial lockdown I can still go to the shops, eat in a restaurant go and have a massage, dance in a nightclub or sit in a spa should I choose to do so (for the most part I do none of those at the moment however I can.....)... face masks are not mandetory they are recommended however you do not have to put them on if you do not want to .... the main point that is here now and was in place last march is that people work from home so they are not using public transport unless they absolutely have to ie have a job which can not be done at home.. this is being adhered to very strictly. You do not live here ergo you actually do not know what any of the recommendations mean (please note I said recommendations not restrictions).. you are making assumptions from incorrect reporting and that is what is irritating me most and taking it as canon oO. As for herd immunity Tegnell has publicically said that the strategies prime objecting was NOT herd immunity however it should be a bi product of it.

 

[Bodhi]

I mentioned herd immunity and how it had been clearly documented in videos and expert publications around the world, a fact you denied, it wasnt a deniable point, its out there in dozens and dozens of well respected publications.

I made a point about Sweden being better with their general conformity to the rules than the UK. A point you clearly don't agree with.

I then mentioned that even Swedens strategy is changing, partial lockdowns, face masks, a point you denied and our friend from Sweden denied, but it's a documented fact.

You can bluster and throw in little quips all you like, but it doesn't change the facts.

HTH

Dude. You're currently suggesting that you know more about Sweden's own strategy to manage the pandemic than the guy who devised it, and more about what is going on in Sweden that someone who currently lives there.

I'm not sure if I can put it in more plain English than that how ridiculous your current position is.

There are many interviews out there with Tegnell where you can get his view on things, and some with Johan Gisecke, his mentor. His mentor who now works with the WHO on Pandemic Management, so worth listening to. Possibly optimistic on my part that you possess the skills to do so, but have a go. You may learn something.

 

[Tay]

Dude. You're currently suggesting that you know more about Sweden's own strategy to manage the pandemic than the guy who devised it, and more about what is going on in Sweden that someone who currently lives there.

I'm not sure if I can put it in more plain English than that how ridiculous your current position is.

There are many interviews out there with Tegnell where you can get his view on things, and some with Johan Gisecke, his mentor. His mentor who now works with the WHO on Pandemic Management, so worth listening to. Possibly optimistic on my part that you possess the skills to do so, but have a go. You may learn something.

At no point have I ever said that, its quite a simple distinction, I've simply repeated what I have seen, read and heard from international conferences, the Swedish govt, Swedish health service & numerous white papers by international experts and publications, I've stated numerous times.

Your beef should be with them, they said it. I simply repeated it.

I did make reference to adherence to guidelines and how Sweden was better at it than the UK, you slagged me off for that too.

 

[Scouse]

Ignoring what you've said is a thing @Bodhi does so he can keep saying the same thing @Tay.

 

[Embattle]

I've said it before and I'll say it again making direct comparisons between countries is pointless, it'll take many more years and mountains of data before we get even near an answer.

 

[Raven]

Yep, but some people think we should all be doing whatever the fuck we like...despite the fact shit went south sharpish when restrictions were relaxed.

 

[Raven]

Test came back negative

 

[Yoni]

I do not think that anyone thinks people should be doing whatever they like.... I think that Bodhi is specifically questioning and looking at the other side of the CV19 debate (this is a discussion forum is it not) - yes he is taking a hard opposing view but he needs to in order to get his point accross... If people actually read rather than bashed the keyboard with their own viewpoint and rhetoric maybe he would not have to take the view to the extreme.

You can not compare countries however the current bruhaha is due to my statement that Sweden took its viewpoint from a whole health point of view which has and is working well except in old peoples homes ... my post was. immediately smacked down by someone who has absolutely no clue about Sweden in a really shitty way ie calling bullshit, it would be better if they read my post and maybe actually follow up with questions (although you can scroll back and read all the answers you need).... when this happens I will do two things: I am goaing to respond as I am sick do death of this increasinging practice on these forums to shout people down and bully and then if they continue to act in that way ignore is your friend (as i said having him on ignore has not changed the flow of the forums in the slightest).

Regarding Tegnell - you are aware that Tegnell is not working alone .... he reports into Johan Carlsson and is the spokesperson for the group - when the boys in the UK stand on the podium you do not refer to the UKs strategy or recommendations by their names you correctly refer to them as SAGE - if you know enough about Sweden rather than just read what the english speaking news has written you would actually refer to Tegnell as FHoM....

Here is a link to their statistics page so you can actually follow the numbers not just make things up Experience

 

[Raven]

Yes, but what works for Sweden obviously does not work for the UK, as the spikes in transmissions, when restrictions were relaxed, clearly demonstrate. As Embattle says, it is pointless comparing two countries, with enormously different demographics, population density, shopping habits, work environments etc. We got so far fucked in the last relaxation of rules that we are still recovering.

Frankly the only comparison worth talking about is our obvious advantage of being an island, with very controllable borders, obviously far too late to do anything about that now though, the horse has bolted, had kids who have also bolted and the gate is knackered anyway.

 

[Yoni]

I was not comparing I was stating that mental health in Sweden was and is a big factor in the decision making process. The Island argument is en point you only need to look at what the islands around England have done and how they hve managed to keep life relitively normal (twice they have taken more measures).

 

[Scouse]

maybe he would not have to take the view to the extreme.

But he would anyway Yons.

I look at it like this - I only care what the evidence says UK policy should be. You can make an argument for different things but unless you make a different moral judgement about the value of personal freedom over risk to life then the evidence supports only one direction for the UK.

To make his argument Bodhi has to selectively ignore the facts or cherry pick items that support his position. Fair enough. But he's not being hard done by or unfairly bashed for that. He's advocating for personal freedom at the cost of more death.

That's why he's getting a kicking.

 

[Scouse]

Covid: We could live with virus 'like we do flu' by end of year, says Hancock

But scientists warn against treating coronavirus like the flu, with mutations getting "more dangerous".

www.bbc.co.uk

Do you think Covid is just a conspiracy by Public Health England to ensure everyone loses weight?

"Covid's endemic from now on fatties! Lose weight or die!"

 

[Yoni]

But he would anyway Yons.

I look at it like this - I only care what the evidence says UK policy should be. You can make an argument for different things but unless you make a different moral judgement about the value of personal freedom over risk to life then the evidence supports only one direction for the UK.

To make his argument Bodhi has to selectively ignore the facts or cherry pick items that support his position. Fair enough. But he's not being hard done by or unfairly bashed for that. He's advocating for personal freedom at the cost of more death.

That's why he's getting a kicking.

I think he is advocating more that the death will come anyway whether by cv19 or due to lockdown is immaterial - the truth is between both views and highly dependent upon whether the virus was allowed to take hold in a country or not as well as density etc etc. There comes a point where everyone should agree to differ and just move along ....

 

[Scouse]

I think he is advocating more that the death will come anyway whether by cv19 or due to lockdown

Yes he is. And he's wrong.

the truth is between both views

Is shown very clearly by the science. Lockdowns are saving lives, they're not killing more people than they're saving. They're not leading to a level of mental health breakdown that is leading to a massive uptick in suicides.

This isn't my view or opinion @Yoni. The data is out there and is very very clear.

The reason Bodhi is getting a kicking is that, even when this is put on a plate for him, simply and clearly, he doesn't want to believe it. He wants the lockdown to end. That is his opinion.


People can hold whatever views or opinions they want. If they hold the view or opinion that the sky is orange, then that's fair enough. But they can still be called out on their shit - we've measured the sky. It's blue.

 

[Scouse]

Looks like UK government is winding up to removing restrictions too soon, again.

I also don't know why we're reporting that 20% of people have had their "first dose" of the vaccine. All we're saying is that nobody has been fully vaccinated, and that the rollout speed is very soon to slow down dramatically.

 

[dysfunction]

Looks like UK government is winding up to removing restrictions too soon, again.

I also don't know why we're reporting that 20% of people have had their "first dose" of the vaccine. All we're saying is that nobody has been fully vaccinated, and that the rollout speed is very soon to slow down dramatically.

Lets hope they don't otherwise we'll be back into another long lockdown again.

 

[Yoni]

Yes he is. And he's wrong.

Is shown very clearly by the science. Lockdowns are saving lives, they're not killing more people than they're saving. They're not leading to a level of mental health breakdown that is leading to a massive uptick in suicides.

This isn't my view or opinion @Yoni. The data is out there and is very very clear.

The reason Bodhi is getting a kicking is that, even when this is put on a plate for him, simply and clearly, he doesn't want to believe it. He wants the lockdown to end. That is his opinion.


People can hold whatever views or opinions they want. If they hold the view or opinion that the sky is orange, then that's fair enough. But they can still be called out on their shit - we've measured the sky. It's blue.

I am sorry but no, this is where you have to stop.... you both have evidence stating the other is wrong and just because you like your version of reality it does not mean that his is wrong - he has also provided information to state the opposite hence why the truth is inbetween... you want to save lives today, he wants to save lives in the future ie you both want to save lives...

When you do not agree with someone as it is for a few others, you go on and on and on and get more and more offensive everytime you post you show a lack of empathy of anyone debating from an emotional point of view and persist in bullying tactics by resorting to insults.... this will do nothing to pursuade anyone to change there minds especially if they are able to go search for themselves.

I have very different view to Bodhi and Embattle on certain subjects (Tories, Brexit yadda yadda).... wierd how neither of them ever end up on my ignore list where as my views are a little more aligned to yours and you spend more time on ignore than off it.... Tay has been back for a month or so and has already made it there because he just starts insulting people who disagree with him or argues from a point of lack of knowledge... there are plenty of other people with a different view pont to mine I will happily disucss with just not if I feel that I am not being listened to or that the dialogue is bullying in nature.

 

[Scouse]

you both have evidence stating the other is wrong

No he doesn't.

If he did, I'd totally be on his side Yoni. 100%.


Edit:

you show a lack of empathy of anyone debating from an emotional point of view

1) I totally empathise with @Bodhi's loss. I know exactly what it is like.
2) I don't give a shit if someone is "debating from an emotional point of view". That's a losers excuse. You live and die by evidence - how you feel about that is a separate thing.

 

[Yoni]

No Scouse people do not live and die in that way because they are human..... seriously you have no clue how to empathise evidenced in this thread... I am not going to get drawn in any further because it is pointless.. you are unable to reflect on your own behavoir and just keep on going because you think your viewpoint is correct.. have fun with that oO

 

[Moriath]

No Scouse people do not live and die in that way because they are human..... seriously you have no clue how to empathise evidenced in this thread... I am not going to get drawn in any further because it is pointless.. you are unable to reflect on your own behavoir and just keep on going because you think your viewpoint is correct.. have fun with that oO

Didnt you know. If @Scouse has a position everyone else is wrong no matter what they think. I think he just likes an argument

 

[Tay]

Tay has been back for a month or so and has already made it there because he just starts insulting people who disagree with him or argues from a point of lack of knowledge... there are plenty of other people with a different view pont to mine I will happily disucss with just not if I feel that I am not being listened to or that the dialogue is bullying in nature.

I cant have a view because I've been back for a month and I have a lack of knowledge?
I cant speak about stuff in Sweden because I don't live there?

You said these things. You should just reflect on that for a minute.

As for insults, I ONLY threw an insult or two when insulted first!!, when the evidence clearly stated exactly what I had said, because thats where I got it from, it wasn't my opinion it was documented fact.

But anyway, ignore lists work both ways

 

[Scouse]

No Scouse people do not live and die in that way because they are human....

Jeezuz Yoni. This is about whether something is right or wrong, not how he's living his life. At work, would you say "yeah, I think you're wrong and the evidence shows it - but hey, you feel this way so we'll just run with it."

 

[Moriath]

Amanda Holden 'devastated' at lockdown rule break

The Britain's Got Talent judge admits she travelled over 200 miles after a "distressing" call from her parents.

www.bbc.co.uk

what exactly is she devastated about? I reakon its that shes been caught out. If she thought her parents were in trouble 200 miles away you call an emergency service At least.

i cant understand her being devastated about doing it, while doing it. Just about the potential issues now she has done it.

 

[Raven]

Devastated at being caught out. Nothing more.