Politics Coronavirus

[Bodhi]

If I am honest non Swedish people quoting information without the facts (which are openly available) drives me bonkers. It is really clear for me what the issues have been here - I do not understand every word but I have ensured I know what and how it has happened. Tegnell is very arrogant and this is not great from a perception point of view and a little humility on his behalf would go a long way. If you look at the improvements he would make it is about protecting the over 70s. He stated that potentially it was unnecessary to close schools for older kids and Unis - not restrict more - which is not what is expected when they saw him say they could have done a few things differently.

I do not necessarily agree with how it all went down here however from a legal point to restrict the movement of Swedish citizens requires a constitutional change - this would still be in process today if the process had started in Dec (when the virus first arrived in Sweden). So blaming and shouting etc would not have made a difference all we can do is to follow the recommendations, restrict movements and be adult - when I look back I am ok with my behaviour - I have not been on public transport since late Feb early March and I do extensive shopping twice per month within walking distance from my home. If I think there are too many people I go elsewhere(not add to the issues) I don’t do the weekly shop on a Friday evening but early Saturday morning - I have stopped using online grocery shopping as my elderly neighbours could not get a time etc I only order booze online as Systembolaget have restricted their hours and there are always too many people there.

To be fair @Yoni the same people seem to struggle with what's going on in their own country, never mind elsewhere

 

[Scouse]

Yes because the over 70s were not protected - please complete facts not just the bits that suit your rhetoric

So the answer was "yes, she has changed her mind and disagrees with his handling of the crisis".


The involvement of the utter clusterfuck of the over 70's is immaterial. The fact that you seemingly continue to think that's important extenuating circumstances (or something?) is just as disturbing as the first time you belittled the plight of the elderly.

Your plan either works for all or is a failure.

I'm no Sweden hater @Yoni - I've been taking knocks for years (from @Bodhi especially) for being a very strong suppoter of how Sweden does things, it's economic and social models, yadda yadda yadda.

But they done fucked up. Just like us.

 

[Yoni]

Yes I have stated this from almost the beginning HOWEVER not locking down was NOT the fuck up in Sweden (note I completely understand the need for lockdown where a health service has the potential to collapse), a point which you continue to ignore regardless of all the evidence put in front of you.

 

[Bodhi]

So the answer was "yes, she has changed her mind and disagrees with his handling of the crisis".


The involvement of the utter clusterfuck of the over 70's is immaterial. The fact that you seemingly continue to think that's important extenuating circumstances (or something?) is just as disturbing as the first time you belittled the plight of the elderly.

Your plan either works for all or is a failure.

I'm no Sweden hater @Yoni - I've been taking knocks for years (from @Bodhi especially) for being a very strong suppoter of how Sweden does things, it's economic and social models, yadda yadda yadda.

But they done fucked up. Just like us.

Any chance of producing a link where she said that so we can evaluate for ourselves the context? As I'd rather not rely on a summary from someone who appears to have issues telling his arse from his elbow.

 

[Yoni]

Any chance of producing a link where she said that so we can evaluate for ourselves the context? As I'd rather not rely on a summary from someone who appears to have issues telling his arse from his elbow.

https://www.google.se/amp/s/www.the...-sweden-might-have-taken-some-wrong-turns/amp

 

[Bodhi]

https://www.google.se/amp/s/www.the...-sweden-might-have-taken-some-wrong-turns/amp

Yeah that's not the slam-dunk our "learned" friend is making it out to be - in fact it looks like she's agreeing with Tegnell, that they didn't protect the elderly in the way they said they would.

 

[Scouse]

Believes they should have locked down more restrictively to save lives. End of.

 

[Yoni]

I think that to understand more about why people under 70 have died there needs to be detailed studies into demographics, density and lifestyle factors to understand why certain areas have been ravaged and some unaffected given similar lockdown conditions or similar density with opposite lockdown - so many factors

 

[Bodhi]

Believes they should have locked down more restrictively to save lives. End of.

That's your proof? An out of context incomplete (spot the ... in the middle of it) quote spun by a foreign paper? Based entirely on someone's opinion?

And no comment on the revelation that 2/3rd of hospitalisations in New York came from people who were already locked down? Or is that more awkward science?

 

[Yoni]

Believes they should have locked down more restrictively to save lives. End of.

Well done for picking out a sentence that suits your rhetoric completely out of context.

 

[Hawkwind]

No shit...

Coronavirus: Test and trace programme launches amid reports of 'crashes'

Incredible in this day and age right? I mean S/W that was rushed through having bugs and teething issues, beggars belief

 

[Bodhi]

Incredible in this day and age right? I mean S/W that was rushed through having bugs and teething issues, beggars belief

I see you're new to the world of NHS IT Projects - as they are never delivered late with half the intended functionality missing

 

[Moriath]

Of course it's meaningfull @caLLous - even if the ultimate figure was half that it would still be shockingly poor in a country of 66m people vs a region of 450m - nearly seven times more people....

They are all a few weeks down the line from us as well. The channel kept our exposure a couple weeks or so behind the rest of euro. Not that we will be down to minimal casualties in two weeks time. But still it might be a better picture to compare then.

 

[Moriath]

https://www.google.se/amp/s/www.the...-sweden-might-have-taken-some-wrong-turns/amp

I am sure every country in the world could have done things better and are learning from their experiences as others are learning from them. Even the ‘gold’ standard countries in the particular time.

 

[Moriath]

I see you're new to the world of NHS IT Projects - as they are never delivered late with half the intended functionality missing

One project 15 or so years ago ran so far over budget it got to the point they just pulled the plug on it before it went live.

 

[Bodhi]

I am sure every country in the world could have done things better and are learning from their experiences as others are learning from them. Even the ‘gold’ standard countries in the particular time.

All except Scotland. St Nicola's response has been perfect in every way, and we are all thankful for her efforts to keep Scotland safe.

Or something.

 

[Bodhi]

One project 15 or so years ago ran so far over budget it got to the point they just pulled the plug on it before it went live.

That was just them upgrading to Windows 7 wasn't it?

 

[Embattle]

One project 15 or so years ago ran so far over budget it got to the point they just pulled the plug on it before it went live.

If it is the same thing I'm thinking about it was the attempt to create a unified/universal digital system for patient records etc (NHS Connecting for Health - Wikipedia), it was started under Labour (Tony Blair) and it produced little more than cost overruns and time delays and was ultimately scrapped. The system is more locally linked now with different computer systems, it is probably why after nearly a year my GP patient records are still missing from my new practice when I moved from London to Devon.

I've always wanted a system that is highly integrated, in essence they could scan my fingerprint and get my medical record and see everything no matter where I was in the UK.

 

[Yoni]

If it is the same thing I'm thinking about it was the attempt to create a unified/universal digital system for patient records etc (NHS Connecting for Health - Wikipedia), it was started under Labour (Tony Blair) and it produced little more than cost overruns and time delays and was ultimately scrapped. The system is more locally linked now with different computer systems, it is probably why after nearly a year my GP patient records are still missing from my new practice when I moved from London to Devon.

I've always wanted a system that is highly integrated, in essence they could scan my fingerprint and get my medical record and see everything no matter where I was in the UK.

It works in this way with personummer in Sweden and equivalent in the Netherlands (BSN). I remember being amazed that I could show up at any pharmacy- hand over my ID and get my meds oO no written prescription nothing

 

[Bodhi]

If it is the same thing I'm thinking about it was the attempt to create a unified/universal digital system for patient records etc (NHS Connecting for Health - Wikipedia), it was started under Labour (Tony Blair) and it produced little more than cost overruns and time delays and was ultimately scrapped. The system is more locally linked now with different computer systems, it is probably why after nearly a year my GP patient records are still missing from my new practice when I moved from London to Devon.

I've always wanted a system that is highly integrated, in essence they could scan my fingerprint and get my medical record and see everything no matter where I was in the UK.

I moved from Stone to Stafford, which is about a 15 minute drive and under the same NHS Trust. It was 9 months before my current GP could look at my previous records...

 

[old.Osy]

If it is the same thing I'm thinking about it was the attempt to create a unified/universal digital system for patient records etc (NHS Connecting for Health - Wikipedia), it was started under Labour (Tony Blair) and it produced little more than cost overruns and time delays and was ultimately scrapped. The system is more locally linked now with different computer systems, it is probably why after nearly a year my GP patient records are still missing from my new practice when I moved from London to Devon.

I've always wanted a system that is highly integrated, in essence they could scan my fingerprint and get my medical record and see everything no matter where I was in the UK.

That's an Orwellian nightmare.

 

[Embattle]

That's an Orwellian nightmare.

Some may think so, I tend to think it'll be useful for when you've been in an accident that results in you being unable to communicate or if you are unable to remember all your medications because of things like dementia or just because they have such stupidly long names such as bendroflumethiazide.

 

[~Yuckfou~]

As at May 10th Spain had 17.2k deaths not accounted for the highest in the world (NYT) and deaths 72% above “normal” rate - UK 14k missing deaths and 56% above - they are both poor statistics and just like the UK, Spain are not being honest with their situation - neither are good - for Spain who closed apparently on good times there appears to be little understanding as to where it all went wrong - for the UK it appears clear that infection had taken hold before lockdown or the number of deaths would be lower - for Spain what are their conclusions?

The extra deaths I can't explain, other than to say that people here were afraid to go to hospital, still are. I can only assume some home deaths are not recorded as Covid related. We also had our fair share of care home deaths, they probably account for some of the number.
Agreed Spain are not being honest, there's plenty of talk about it here, but we are in low double digit deaths per day. Many days Almeria Province (where we are) reports zero deaths. Whereas the numbers in the UK are still scarily high.
As for how we ended up with so many dead? My (anecdotal) theory is cultural. Everyone shakes hands or kisses here, everyone. My assumption is that before we recorded our first case it was already rife we just didn't know it. I had "something" in late December. We then got hit hard with the numbers climbing fast. So we went into lockdown, proper lockdown, you do not leave your house except for shopping/fuel/pharmaceuticals period, everything except those was shut. If you do leave home 300 euros minimum, repeat offenders going to prison.
In the UK the (late) lockdown was and is weak and unenforced. So it looks like Corona has slowed there but the infection rate hasn't been halted like it was here. I suspect that as things stand the UK numbers could end up being the worst in Europe.
So yes we had a problem, but it could have been a lot worse if the Government hadn't acted fast and hard.

 

[Moriath]

That was just them upgrading to Windows 7 wasn't it?

Lots of databases involved is all i know. My company was supplying them haha

 

[Moriath]

If it is the same thing I'm thinking about it was the attempt to create a unified/universal digital system for patient records etc (NHS Connecting for Health - Wikipedia), it was started under Labour (Tony Blair) and it produced little more than cost overruns and time delays and was ultimately scrapped. The system is more locally linked now with different computer systems, it is probably why after nearly a year my GP patient records are still missing from my new practice when I moved from London to Devon.

I've always wanted a system that is highly integrated, in essence they could scan my fingerprint and get my medical record and see everything no matter where I was in the UK.

Yup that was it. Which is why our response to the pandemic is not as good as it could be cause theres no link up between areas and hospitals still have to send files if digitally now. Instead of being accessed for everyone from anywhere they turn up.

much better if your on holiday have an accident or something outside yr local area being able to get all yr records save having to grill you

 

[Moriath]

It works in this way with personummer in Sweden and equivalent in the Netherlands (BSN). I remember being amazed that I could show up at any pharmacy- hand over my ID and get my meds oO no written prescription nothing

It should be like that here too but they were shit lol

 

[Job]

Trying to follow the deaths too closely is pointless, me and my dentist mate just keep getting confused till we realised theres no clear distinction between reported, historical or actual deaths and big time lags add to the confusion.

End of the year, thats all Im interested in.

 

[Job]

Im guessing this is an insight into how much was still going on under lockdown.
Maybe cos China just kept barrelling on.

Atmospheric CO2 levels rise sharply despite Covid-19 lockdowns

 

[Moriath]

Im guessing this is an insight into how much was still going on under lockdown.
Maybe cos China just kept barrelling on.

Atmospheric CO2 levels rise sharply despite Covid-19 lockdowns

Or theres something self perpetuating. Like those lakes with locked in gas in permafrost that once they melt it keeps releasing.

maybe theres a lag on removing it.

with the majortiy of europe and north america and a good lot of other countries locked down with hardly any traffic. It shows that cars are a small contributor.

i am going on the title. I dont want to click a @Job Link it makes me feel unclean lol

 

[BloodOmen]