Charity & Donation

[Calaen]

A more appropriate example would be, i direct it back at you, would you donate me money, seeing as i'm falling homeless, can barely make ends meet etc? Or are the causes you choose to give money to, absed on if you find the cause worth it? Nasty mindtwister eh?

Nothing mind twisting about it, I donate as and when I feel like it. Mostly donating to third world countries where they have to walk for 20 miles to get a bucket of muddy water. Until you do not have electricity/water/food and luxuries like having a roof over your head and clothes on your back you would get nothing

Most charities get donations from people who have suffered/experiences something that the charity is trying to help.

I donate to whoever I think deserves it based on my emotions at the time.

 

[collegien]

Personally I would like to thank anyone that does give to charities.
Especially Cancer Research / Macmillan as they have made my quality of life alot better in recent years.
I wonder if some of the people against donating by whataver methods, giving cash. donating to charity shops, direct fundraising etc would still have the same view if they or their family were helped by these organisations.

 

[Heta]

I wonder if some of the people against donating by whataver methods, giving cash. donating to charity shops, direct fundraising etc would still have the same view if they or their family were helped by these organisations.

ofc it would change if affecting once family, but utill it do I wont give anything

 

[Calaen]

ofc it would change if affecting once family, but utill it do I wont give anything

Of course then you would be relying on the good nature of folks donating that do not suffer, giving to you when you yourself gave nothing.

 

[Himse]

Check out the Pre-Budget Report/Annual Expenditure etc.

The government has not broke even since the Thatcher Era if I remember rightly.

Instead the government in effect borrows money from private companies and pays them back in 'I Owe You' bonds. The chances of the government having ever shifted these 'I Owe you's are slim, as they pay one debt off by creating another. Ofcourse, being a government: they can do that.

The reason they are running low on funding because they spend shit money on things like for example "black lesbian womens football teams" and other retarded concepts that people make, just to get government money.


Government i believe in this country is actually useless, tax's are stupidly high, i want my money i earn to benefit me not other people, im being selfish yes but i earn it.

I don't think the government know how to spend my money better than me, although they like to think they do. Look before labour were in power, and how much better the country was as a whole!

 

[old.Tohtori]

Nothing mind twisting about it, I donate as and when I feel like it. Mostly donating to third world countries where they have to walk for 20 miles to get a bucket of muddy water. Until you do not have electricity/water/food and luxuries like having a roof over your head and clothes on your back you would get nothing

Most charities get donations from people who have suffered/experiences something that the charity is trying to help.

I donate to whoever I think deserves it based on my emotions at the time.

Well exactly. So why shoul Sharma be rode over not having one? Would people calm down if he helped, say, me? Or isn't that charity, is that just "throwing money away" or a "loan"?

I think what Sharma is trying more to say that, it's his right to choose whether or not to do charity, and should be judged on it. As we don't judge other people and what they donate for.

By the way Calaen, the funny thing is, you'll never know if i don't have a roof over my head or clothes on my back, as when i fall below that line, you'll never hear from me in any media. No such thing as poverty in welfare countries right?

 

[Calaen]

The reason they are running low on funding because they spend shit money on things like for example "black lesbian womens football teams" and other retarded concepts that people make, just to get government money.


Government i believe in this country is actually useless, tax's are stupidly high, i want my money i earn to benefit me not other people, im being selfish yes but i earn it.

I don't think the government know how to spend my money better than me, although they like to think they do. Look before labour were in power, and how much better the country was as a whole!

Yeah record high unemployment, which would no doubt lead to rising crime figures over time. people losing their jobs/homes while all the rich folk got got more benfits. Fuck the conservatives and fuck Thatcher. I would rather keep labour safe in the knowledge that my home is going to be mine until I decide otherwise.

 

[Amildin]

Not giving money to charities funds terrorism! Didnt you know?

More seriously though, i think charities vary so enormously we cant really judge as a whole, cancer research vs madeleine mccann anyone?

Also the corruption involved in charities, not necessarily this side of the fence but definately over in africa etc is very off-putting, with the most obvious example (and a very extreme one) being Mugabe who used the US aid programme to build a 6m house, a private jet previously owned by hugh hefner and letting his wife go on £75,000 a day shopping trips only to buy a merc at the end to be able to carry all her bags to the airport.

My point in all this is that charities cant be grouped like they are. Ah well, im a student, therefore dont get judged for not donating

 

[Calaen]

Well exactly. So why shoul Sharma be rode over not having one? Would people calm down if he helped, say, me? Or isn't that charity, is that just "throwing money away" or a "loan"?

I think what Sharma is trying more to say that, it's his right to choose whether or not to do charity, and should be judged on it. As we don't judge other people and what they donate for.

By the way Calaen, the funny thing is, you'll never know if i don't have a roof over my head or clothes on my back, as when i fall below that line, you'll never hear from me in any media. No such thing as poverty in welfare countries right?

Sharma should not be rode over he is making a choice/decision its what humans do best. However it works both ways and you are always going to get people who do donate questioning why someone would not donate.

With regards to you, of course there is poverty in welfare countries, but until you fall below that line I would not consider you in need. You at least have a family to fall back on and I am sure you would get access to a computer via friends/internet cafe. These children dying in Africa have nothing but their lives. They are given no chance at all, unless they are lucky enough to be near an area receiving charity.

 

[Heta]

Of course then you would be relying on the good nature of folks donating that do not suffer, giving to you when you yourself gave nothing.

not my fault they give when they don't need to

 

[collegien]

not my fault they give when they don't need to

Flamebait alert !!!!

not biting at that one yet.

 

[Eeben]

You are part of the responsibility of these countries. Perhaps even half the items you buy will lead back to poor wages in the LEDCs.



.

true , but if you didnt buy those items they would not get any money at all, if they didnt have poor wages there would be no point in moveing produktion to those countrys an they would have no jobs...

 

[old.Tohtori]

These children dying in Africa have nothing but their lives. They are given no chance at all, unless they are lucky enough to be near an area receiving charity.

Glad we can agree atleast on the "don't judge" part.

About this "africa situation", well, i have my opinions on it, but it's a whole 'nother thread and people don't like it. But i get what you mean.

I also have opinions on politicians, just another week or so, three or so politicians got their MILLION euro debts forgiven, while i'm struggling to even keep a home for a measily 8k needed and the government does NOTHING.

What they earn in a month, i could live for a year, and STILL they get the "good will" of the government instead of people who NEED it.

 

[Heta]

Flamebait alert !!!!

not biting at that one yet.

actually, its the way I feel

large parts of the world are living with artificial help

like a person that is living through the help of a machine that help them breath and even circulate the blood.

like allowing people with hereditary diseases have children so they get it aswell, and it spreads further insted trying to stop them.

 

[Fafnir]

like allowing people with hereditary diseases have children so they get it aswell, and it spreads further insted trying to stop them.

Well thinking like that can be dangerous, someone thought about it during 1940's And alot of countries sterilized people with Downs syndrom and other handicap's and diseases in the early 1900.

And some hereditary disease wont show up until you got two people with that "gene" "disease" meet and make a baby, so lets say you have that gene should we just give you the needle so you dont make babies with someone that might carry the same defect gene?

And alot of people that have theese gene's have no clue about it until they have a child carrying the active disease. So perhaps we should take genetic samples of every born person on this planet and say, he and she can never make a baby. I know the insurrance companies would love that, so they could refuse you insurrence cause you carry a gene that will make you a greater risk of some diseases.

And Kadaffi is right about lets help them help themselves, dumping food at their feet will help them today. And another person is supposed to have said if you give a man a fish he can eat today, but if you teach a man to fish he can eat for the rest of his life.


And a lot of and..

 

[Heta]

yes I know

was just not Hitler that did things like that, all the way into the 60's they sterilized people in Sweden with downs syndrom and other handicap's and diseases

but that is the thing that will get mankind in the end, having sympathy for others
and no, I'm not saying that its the thing to do.

if people stop being so selfish and need to have a child of there own when they know they have a diseases that may be transferred to them is just beyond me, there are plenty of unwanted children out in the world that are in need of a home

 

[Huntingtons]

The reason they are running low on funding because they spend shit money on things like for example "black lesbian womens football teams" and other retarded concepts that people make, just to get government money.


Government i believe in this country is actually useless, tax's are stupidly high, i want my money i earn to benefit me not other people, im being selfish yes but i earn it.

I don't think the government know how to spend my money better than me, although they like to think they do. Look before labour were in power, and how much better the country was as a whole!

good for you that the government paid for you education (to some extend) and that whenever you got ill or you parents were worried it wouldnt cost them a dime. but sure, you take it all for yourself. go live in malaysia if you dont like taxes

 

[Himse]

Yeah record high unemployment, which would no doubt lead to rising crime figures over time. people losing their jobs/homes while all the rich folk got got more benfits. Fuck the conservatives and fuck Thatcher. I would rather keep labour safe in the knowledge that my home is going to be mine until I decide otherwise.

lol, and whats labours "great" policy on council housing? immigration? the health service?

all which are actually sucking atm.

 

[Himse]

good for you that the government paid for you education (to some extend) and that whenever you got ill or you parents were worried it wouldnt cost them a dime. but sure, you take it all for yourself. go live in malaysia if you dont like taxes

yeah with half the public schools under funded? so they are using shitty old text books, yeah it may be free, but it sucks.

as i said in the previous post, the NHS is in massive debt, & its digging itself into a hole.

 

[Cromcruaich]

Thread seems very muddled.

Sharma doesnt appear to object to giving to charity in principle. Just doesnt like being pressured.

Also he has his doubts about how the funding from those charities is used.

Think we can all agree so far.

What I dont understand at all is the outrage about the government and mismangement. Are you talking about the UK government, all goverments or the goverment to which the charity does its work?

Either way, charitable organisations work outside of the government - why take the line of the government fails to fix the problem then I too will do nothing. They are two seperate issues. If the government is failing, then why not act outside of the governemt, why not do what you can, why not do something.

It smacks to me more of a false justification for choosing to do the easiest thing - that is to do nothing.

On the question of corruption, well if only 50% of donated funds gets through, and that saves 500 lives (rather than a 1000), isnt that better than zero? I think it is.


However, this is all dodgy ground - its difficult to argue about this, as it ends up in reductionism where those who pursue the donation argument get mired in having to ask themselves why they dont donate all available income to charity.

So it comes down to a personal moral decision - i'm not evangelistic about this, i give small amounts but often - ive got a comfortable lifestyle, and the amount I give makes me feel better - so it's money i consider is very well spent.

 

[Sharma]

OMG. Thank you Crom!

Someone that saw what I meant!

Albeit I will say I sort of did it in rant mode after a heated arguement so sorry about that.

Regardless though i'm still irked by it, and as you all have said, the government may be in debt and it is nice to see people doing their part and such but it's the pressue that really gets to me when i'm being blamed for something done by others.

The governments basically screwed these countries over years ago and as far as I see it have just passed on the buck to the rest of the general public.

The other main thing is that i've read up many times over the past few years that charities, although doing a good job, when they have sent money over there, it has to pass through a government scheme, of which a big chunk gets siphoned off and goes straight into the back pockets of tossers like Mugabe and such.

So amongst being pissy over the social pressures to do so, I am seriously doubtful that the pound that I could give will ever reach someone that would need it. I've never been comfortable with the thought that i'm supplying some fat cat in an ivory office with the money i've given in good will.

Maybe when they finally chuck these vermin out of office i'll begin donating.

Until then i'm keeping my wallet bolted shut.

 

[Bugz]

No offence guys but I encourage you to understand the economics of the government and their annual spending before you start throwing out shit that isn't true.

The majority of the Government's expenditure is on social protection (reduction of poverty and vulnerabilities etc.) The 'black womens teams' you speak off goes into the 'Other expenditure' section along with THOUSANDS if not millions of other smaller things which is about ~10% of the government's spending, nearly a half of the Health sector's budget of ~100 bill and the social protection budget of ~150 bill.

If it were not for the investment into the social protection sector, I would probably not be in the accommodation I am now. I too use to throw about the shit 'oh, we shouldn't help people with poverty/moneys issues anyway as its never happened to me.' People are different and circumstances are tighter for some than others.

The taxes are stupidly high because this country offers one of the most advanced welfare states in the world. The government interaction (albeit - not perfect) is surely better than little to no management what-so-ever.

 

[Sharma]

The taxes are stupidly high because this country offers one of the most advanced welfare states in the world. The government interaction (albeit - not perfect) is surely better than little to no management what-so-ever.

Yep, we allow people to stay out of work and we pay them to do it! Great!

I'm going home now anyway, gonna drink some beer.

 

[soze]

I donate to the NSPCC Children in the UK, and Shelter I think it is a charity that help English homeless people not one penny leaves England / UK

View attachment 3824

 

[NikonL]

What I get pissy about is again, the types that ram it down your throat daily and tell you it's YOUR fault that the countries are in thise state and it's YOUR responsibility to get them out of it.

Because I happen to tick the boxes of:

[] Over 18
[] Has a job
[] Lives in England

The responsibility of donating to charity is brought upon you to be nearly mandatory and because I openly oppose the society enforced view that you're doing the right thing by donating to charity, i'm a very hateful person.

Can we assume for the moment that life is not a bunch of roses all the time, and that a lot of shitty things happen. Getting "pressured" (as you put it) is not really that much of a burden. You're acting a bit queenish in my personal opinion. Saying "Oh well, some charities are trying to pressure me! This isn't on. From now on, NO charities will get my money" just sounds like a poor excuse for you being tight. There are plenty of deserving charities that you could donate to.

I do agree with you as far as the whole "How much you donate doesn't matter" argument goes. I had a moral debate with someone the other day as to which was the better deed, the celebrity that gives £2000 without batting an eye-lid, or the little old lady that works hard for weeks knitting something or other and raises £100? In the end i think you do what you can without seriously hampering yourself. I'm no saint, and the last charitable act i did consisted of not drinking when I went out on friday night, but making a note of when i would have been drinking, and putting the money I would have spent into the children in need box thing in reception. It wasn't much but it was something.

As far as the "responsibility" goes, you seem angry because you didn't ask for the responsibility of helping other people, so you shouldn't have to do it. I think this is basically just a "man up" situation. Sometimes things are forced on people when they didn't ask for it. Yeah maybe it's "not fair" but so what? deal with it. suck it up and do what you can. don't just turn your back.

 

[Lamp]

Accepting responsibility is the mark of a man

All you shirkers, spongers, scroungers, whingers, whiners, ponces, nonces, dunces, arses, horses, knob-jockeys, jedi-masters, blasters, go-fasters, plasters, baby sitters, bull-shitters, neck-twitchers, roof-thatchers, teri hatchers, supermen, spermbanks, masterwanks, high-street banks, and Belgian francs...can kiss my ass !



(C) Lamp 2007
*get your own lyrics - up yours !*

 

[old.Tohtori]

Accepting responsibility is the mark of a man

All you shirkers, spongers, scroungers, whingers, whiners, ponces, nonces, dunces, arses, horses, knob-jockeys, jedi-masters, blasters, go-fasters, plasters, baby sitters, bull-shitters, neck-twitchers, roof-thatchers, teri hatchers, supermen, spermbanks, masterwanks, high-street banks, and Belgian francs...can kiss my ass !



(C) Lamp 2007
*get your own lyrics - up yours !*

*wipes away a tear*

Oh gods, i wish my missus was here to see this...little Lamps all grown up.

 

[Huntingtons]

ill let the missus off an hour early today then, im satisfied anyway

 

[old.Tohtori]

ill let the missus off an hour early today then, im satisfied anyway

Oh for f...you mean i have to do the "lets talk and be a couple" thing AGAIN?

 

[leviathane]

Most high up celebrities could live off of 5% of what they earn yet when they give just a little bit to charity their seen as saints while the rest of us, if we don't give away half our wages are seen as evil by the same people.

to be fair atleast old bill gates gives literally millions to charities, but then again he's trying to buy his way into heaven
I agree to not donating to most things, i don't mind things such as cancer research. The only problem here is that there are so many charities about all for the same thing. Why not condense if they're really after "the good" of the people and not out to make money and such.