Charity & Donation

[Sharma]

Leading over from an arguement i've had with a few friends recently over charity and their disapproval of the fact that I outright refuse to donate and hate having all this crap about Africa shoved in my face daily.

I am not afriad of admitting this regardless of people judging me over it but I will never, ever donate to charity.

Judge me as you will over this but i'm steadfast in my views.

I put this to you.

The government amongst all in my opinion should be the ones sorting this out, not the general public.

The government taxes you every month for every single thing you do in life, driving a car, eating, drinking, even working and yet still has the cheek to tell you to donate to charity despite making unbelievable amounts of money each month off us.

I believe that siphoning off even a small amount of money used to regulate Armed forces stocks and other things, such a small percentage of the money the government makes off us could easily outweigh the amount people pay out to charity each month.

Why should we have to pay for a problem caused by the people who run this country in the first place? I get mail through the door, people approaching me in the street, insisting that I donate to charity and judge me as an evil, hate filled person with no regard for others.

Make no mistake, it's a sad situation in those countries but I see no reason why I should have to pay for others mistakes.

It's fucking annoying also when society in general uses this as a moral high ground to judge you and i'm quite pissed off about it.

What's your thoughts?

 

[Bugz]

The government does not make 'huge amounts of money' of us.

Take a look at the annual spendings. If anything, they make too little as they spend more on this country than they make from it in terms of taxes and so on.

 

[kirennia]

Personally I do my own thing towards the cause. Run cancer research programs and such but as for charity, nothing gets me more annoyed about the whole thing then when celebrities who make millions of pounds every year come on and say 'look at me, I gave £2000, you should give too!

Most high up celebrities could live off of 5% of what they earn yet when they give just a little bit to charity their seen as saints while the rest of us, if we don't give away half our wages are seen as evil by the same people.

In that respect I'm with you. Personally I don't give money to charity as I don't like the idea of the fat cats at the top of the organisation taking their fair share first, I will however always try to do my best to do my part for the underprivileged. When finishing my degree I aim to go and do my share of charity work abroad, killing two birds with one stone.

 

[kirennia]

Still doesn't justify why we should pay for someone elses mistakes.

That's just the thing, we're not paying for someonelses mistakes as it were. If you were born in an underpriviledged part of the world, would it be your mistake to be in that situation? Just because these countries governments have made these mistakes, it doesn't make it the masses fault. At the same time however, giving to charity lines their pockets as well which makes the whole issue a double edged sword.

 

[Belgerath]

I give to the RNLI who are also a charity, so far as Africa and such goes i don't personally donate but i can see why you would.

No forces anyone to give to charity though personally i do find it somewhat for lack of a better term selfish not to donate to anything.

I dont earn a forture but i still manage to donate £10 per month and not miss it, i mean really is it that much?

I dont know the in's and out's of why Africa is the way it is though i would more than likely say its probably Europes/America's fault.

Then of course there is wide spread corruption, but id personally blame the whiteman as such for the root cause of it all. (And yes i am white)

 

[Sharma]

I'm not saying it's their fault for living there.

You can blanket it and say "oh it's england/america/whateverland's fault for putting them in this debt".

Well yeah, effectively it is, but I didn't go over there and screw them over so as far as I see it, i'm not paying for something I didn't do when i've got my own mouth to feed on a paltry wage.

Yeah it's better than what they have but because I donate 1 sodding quid doesn't mean they're magically going to don a business suit and go to work at microsoft.

I've not heard one good reason from anywhere to tell me that paying into a charity is going to magically makeover the entire face of the 3rd world.

IMO the only ones paying towards the problems over there should be the ones that caused it in the first place; I.E The American and British government.

Once again i'll say that the reason we get told to pay is because a socially enforced perception that you're doing the right thing by donating £xx per month to a charity.

Sure you can do that if it makes you feel better about yourself but it's still irritating when people who do that look down on others for having a different view and refusing to part with their hard earned cash.

 

[old.Tohtori]

About celebrities and whatnot:

2000 dollars is still 2000 dollars, your bank account shouldn't be the judging point of your donation.

As well, they shouldn't flaunt it. But that's what public figures do, they are public.

Now, on donations.

I don't donate either, mostly 'cause i don't have money to do so, hell, i think i've been a charity case for my family for a while(yeah sucks). But if i did, i wouldn't help people through charity. I'd do it through action.

By action i mean that i'd make damn sure everything i want, is given to them, and not go through various sites and whatnot.

I don't think that my lack of charity, is the "key element" in any issue, and giving money wouldn't make me feel good. Which is the reason people do it. Fact. It's selfish. That's another topic though.

Also, i agree, donating or not donating, on WHATEVER grounds you have, is up t you and should not be used as a judging point. Unless, you're being hypocritical about it. As in, judge some celebrity because they only donate this or that, while saying you shouldn't be judged. You get the point.

If i want, i'll do, not give. Noone should be judged by the lack of doing so though, if it makes you feel good, do it, but it's in no way a "saint"hood that you can flaunt about.

It doesn't make you a better person, what makes you a better person, is being a better person.

In a nutshell, as it's better for me to do so as people get confused of my posts very often;

I don't do charity, 'cause it wouldn't be helping in my mind, as in, to me.

 

[Bugz]

Reading through that again Sharma, and as much of a nice person as you are on the forums, I really do think the logic is very twisted and very inaccurate.

You are part of the responsibility of these countries. Perhaps even half the items you buy will lead back to poor wages in the LEDCs.

The problem with this countries is that they will never leave the LEDC-stage and advance because of attitudes like yours.

It took England a long time to move past the stages these countries are currently at. The even worse thing is that if America stopped feeding it's oil needs and focused on making the world a better place, they could shift A LOT of LEDCs into the safer and more economically viable parts of the DTM.

 

[Sharma]

You are part of the responsibility of these countries. Perhaps even half the items you buy will lead back to poor wages in the LEDCs.

This is precisely what i'm bitching about.

How the sodding hell did I get magically roped into this situation where the responsibility of taking care of someone I don't even know let alone put them in that situation fall to my feet?

 

[Bugz]

This is precisely what i'm bitching about.

How the sodding hell did I get magically roped into this situation where the responsibility of taking care of someone I don't even know let alone put them in that situation fall to my feet?

Well as a country we're responsible.

I don't think you can viably put the blame on the government. If anything - the government is partly to blame. Then again, so are all the private sector companies that seek to make a profit...hmmm....probably 80% of England's workforce?

 

[kirennia]

About celebrities and whatnot:

2000 dollars is still 2000 dollars, your bank account shouldn't be the judging point of your donation.

So if someone who works 12hour nights at a local factory and earns £300 is compared to someone who earns $500,000 a week (<cough> david beckham <cough>), it's a fair comparison to say they're both doing their fair share if they give £200 a week to a charity? The day I earn that much every week is the day I give at the very least 90% of my wages to charity or start my own non-profit charity. If someone can't live on $50,000 a week, they're pathetic.

 

[Cemeterygates]

The government does not make 'huge amounts of money' of us.

Take a look at the annual spendings. If anything, they make too little as they spend more on this country than they make from it in terms of taxes and so on.

well...where do you get this from? is it a guess or do you have figures? not bein funny...just makin a point....sounds like complete guess-work.
i aint the highest earner out there....far from it...but each week i pay about 80-100 quid in tax an national insurance...70 blokes on my shift/area...all payin the same....take that across the 2 shifts...like most areas run at my place...an ya prob lookin at 3000 people payin that in tax....nwo look at it on a wider scale....say theres 75million in the uk (not an exact figure but just usin it to make a point) an out of them theres 50 million employed....lowest tax payed for example is 20 quid a week....highest could well be like 2k. an everythin you buy there is tax on it....an the government dont make any money? but mp's can earn 50k a year for bein arguementative wankers?
i think not. we are one of the highest taxed countries in the world but they dont make fuck all? i cant believe that for shit.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Politicians dont run democratic countries. We do.

Saying that we have no obligation to help poor people is just bullshit. Especially if you're European. Our actions are largely responsible for the misery in many third world countries.

Everyone should vote for more development assistance.

However. I never donate either because I know that my contribution wont make a difference. I would make that sacrifice if i knew that it would make a difference, but it doesnt. If i knew that everyone else did it, but not
everyone do.

With that said though. I have to say i dont think that throwing money to poor countries will solve the problem, but its something.

More on that later. Gonna jump to bed now

 

[Bugz]

well...where do you get this from? is it a guess or do you have figures? not bein funny...just makin a point....sounds like complete guess-work.
i aint the highest earner out there....far from it...but each week i pay about 80-100 quid in tax an national insurance...70 blokes on my shift/area...all payin the same....take that across the 2 shifts...like most areas run at my place...an ya prob lookin at 3000 people payin that in tax....nwo look at it on a wider scale....say theres 75million in the uk (not an exact figure but just usin it to make a point) an out of them theres 50 million employed....lowest tax payed for example is 20 quid a week....highest could well be like 2k. an everythin you buy there is tax on it....an the government dont make any money? but mp's can earn 50k a year for bein arguementative wankers?
i think not. we are one of the highest taxed countries in the world but they dont make fuck all? i cant believe that for shit.

Check out the Pre-Budget Report/Annual Expenditure etc.

The government has not broke even since the Thatcher Era if I remember rightly.

Instead the government in effect borrows money from private companies and pays them back in 'I Owe You' bonds. The chances of the government having ever shifted these 'I Owe you's are slim, as they pay one debt off by creating another. Ofcourse, being a government: they can do that.

 

[Mabs]

Sharma

if you were walking down a street, and you saw someone knocked down by a car, would you help or say "meh, i dont know them, fuck it, its their problem" ?

ok its an extreme example, but these people need help, you are in a position to give some portion of that help, if the situations were reversed i bet you wouldnt be so adamant in your disapproval of it.
if its anyones fault, its the developed countries , which you were born into , so like a lot of things, its inherited when your born

 

[Sharma]

Sharma

if you were walking down a street, and you saw someone knocked down by a car, would you help or say "meh, i dont know them, fuck it, its their problem" ?

That's taking what i'm saying completely out of context and using a completely different situation to justify it.

Answer is, yes I would help them.

Try again.

 

[old.Tohtori]

So if someone who works 12hour nights at a local factory and earns £300 is compared to someone who earns $500,000 a week (<cough> david beckham <cough>), it's a fair comparison to say they're both doing their fair share if they give £200 a week to a charity? The day I earn that much every week is the day I give at the very least 90% of my wages to charity or start my own non-profit charity. If someone can't live on $50,000 a week, they're pathetic.

It's fair to say, they both donated the same amount, and as such, they both gave out to charity the same amount.

Like i said, charity should not be judged on what you give, how much you're giving it from, or if the people are doing it to flaunt or because they want. It's an equal charity, and charity is charity.

Bringing your bank account into it and judging by it, is not a way to go.

About you giving 90% away and such, who knows, maybe you would, maybe you'd change. See it happen. How much do you earn now? Do you REALLY need that much money? Could you give more? and if you could, why won't you? If you think of those, it's not that clear cut that "richer should give more".

Sharma

if you were walking down a street, and you saw someone knocked down by a car, would you help or say "meh, i dont know them, fuck it, its their problem" ?

Would easy to asnwer by any finnish person, as you are obliged by law to help. If you see a guy laying down on the ground, especially bleeding whatnot, and walk away, you can get a hefty jailtime and EVEN be slapped with assisted murder(not 100% sure if it's that harsh). But similar anyway.

A more appropriate example would be, i direct it back at you, would you donate me money, seeing as i'm falling homeless, can barely make ends meet etc? Or are the causes you choose to give money to, absed on if you find the cause worth it? Nasty mindtwister eh?

 

[DocWolfe]

I think I would prefer it if we worried about what was going on in our own backgarden before we started worrying about whats going on in Africa.

 

[- English -]

im actually distugted sharma in your opinion but its my opinion against yours

we pay taxes for a reason

who pays the police, ambulances, firebridgaes etc? yes its yoour taxes;

im a very charitble man, i dont ALWAYS give to charities, i give what i can, atm im doing my best for my own personally affect charity.

 

[Huntingtons]

(...)

I believe that siphoning off even a small amount of money used to regulate Armed forces stocks and other things, such a small percentage of the money the government makes off us could easily outweigh the amount people pay out to charity each month.

Why should we have to pay for a problem caused by the people who run this country in the first place? I get mail through the door, people approaching me in the street, insisting that I donate to charity and judge me as an evil, hate filled person with no regard for others.

(...)

you elect them now you dont want to take responsebility. its democracy. you dont think you can spare a couple of quid which you're most likely to spend or lose on something useless and you probably forgot you even have spent them.

cemetarygates:

tell me this then. if governments with the highest taxes earn alot of money - how can they still be indepted?. so, lets say they earned what you said - now imagine what the cost expenses are to mail people, people working with it etc. etc. etc. its not just money down the pocket - yes they earn money the politicians - some earn alot more than others and some are corrupt. but its not like they earn billions of your money and grin with the thought of raising taxes. its not the middle age anymore

 

[Corran]

Generally I will refuse to give to charity simply because they can take such a huge chunk of what you donate to keep theirself as "Administration costs". People at the top of charity organisations seem to pay theirselfs £50k + a year as a salary out of these donations so why the fuck should I fund that.

If I wanted to help I would go direct to people I want to help, however if Im ever in a situation where I need help then there be no charity out there that will give me money so fuck them.

Paid out enough to help them anyways through our government as we wrote of tens, or rather hundreds of millions of pounds in which we were owed by these countries, and yet our own country is deeply in debt itself through its constant borrowing.

 

[Vladamir]

I don't mind giving to charity and i commend a lot of the work done for whatever the cause is.

However what i hate is people going from door to door basically asking for money with a sob story. I've had 2 in as many weeks for different causes. The only thing that came out of it was my house was colder for having the door open listening to them preach

 

[Adrianicus]

The government does not make 'huge amounts of money' of us.

Take a look at the annual spendings. If anything, they make too little as they spend more on this country than they make from it in terms of taxes and so on.

Have you started you started working yet, do you realise how much of your earnings go on tax?

Regardless of annual spendings the amount of tax we pay is crazy.

Here's an interesting article - Tax Beater - &lsquo;How To Avoid Paying Tax: A Special Report&rsquo;

To summarise out of £100 earned £64 would have been paid to the goverment in the form of taxes!
From 1st Jan to 24th May you work solely to pay taxes!

Sharma has a point - the goverment should definately be putting more money into aid.

Dont get me wrong, donations are still needed. I donate a small amount every month but I'd still like to see the goverment doing a bit more...

 

[Hawkwind]

That's just the thing, we're not paying for someonelses mistakes as it were. If you were born in an underpriviledged part of the world, would it be your mistake to be in that situation? Just because these countries governments have made these mistakes, it doesn't make it the masses fault. At the same time however, giving to charity lines their pockets as well which makes the whole issue a double edged sword.

What about countries like India who basically don't care about the lowest caste people. Countries who spend more on arms and space projects than feeding their own poor? It might not be the masses fault but they are the ones who voted in the governments they have. Why should we pay becuase they simply don't care?

 

[Lamp]

Sharma, I think you're talking out of your arsehole, although you are perfectly entitled to your views. I don't agree with them at all.

Its NOT the government's responsibility to fund each and every charity.

Oh and there are tax breaks for giving to charity.

Donating to charity is VOLUNTARY. You choose to donate, or not. No one's sticking a gun to your head, or telling you you'll lose your job unless you donate to charity.

So if YOU personally don't wanna donate, thats fine. Let other people if they want to. And leave it at that.

If you're ranting about all the charity adverts, go ahead. But how else do you expect charities to drum up urgently needed support ?

If people want to give, let them. If you don't want to - for whatever reason - thats fine, but let others donate if they want to. I do, and yes I feel good about it cos I'm helping others.

Lets hope you never get cancer, lose your job, run out of money, and then have to write to Macmillan Cancer to apply for financial assistance.

 

[Jeremiah]

The government provide gift aid to charities. For those that dont know, if you sign up to gift aid, the government add on 24% of everything you give to charities - its effectively giving before you get taxed. Its nice thing, and I know it helps charities a lot.

Also, if you feel compelled to do something about Africa, I recommend actually volunteering rather than giving as it means you know you are making a difference, rather than your donation getting lost somewhere in the corporate network. Plus, its a life changing experience =)

 

[Sharma]

I'm not having a pop at those who do, more power to them.

What I get pissy about is again, the types that ram it down your throat daily and tell you it's YOUR fault that the countries are in thise state and it's YOUR responsibility to get them out of it.

Because I happen to tick the boxes of:

[] Over 18
[] Has a job
[] Lives in England

The responsibility of donating to charity is brought upon you to be nearly mandatory and because I openly oppose the society enforced view that you're doing the right thing by donating to charity, i'm a very hateful person.

Every single day I can't seem to avoid at least one person trying to make me get my wallet out, telling me over and over that i'm doing the right thing.

I'd imagine my life situation would be very different if I grew up in Africa for example, yes the aid must be very nice and such but I still can't see why the whole sorting this problem out falls to my feet just because I happen to live in a country of the government that screwed these countries over in the first place!

I'll say it again, i'm being told to pay to rectify the actions of a government with only their own fat wages in mind.

I'm currently working to keep myself alive at the moment thanks, maybe when I get a larger salary maybe i'll consider donating a bit, but that will NOT happen until I get to the point where I can consider myself having a large disposable income.

I get fucked over enough on tax as it is, why should I have to pay out even more?

I am not a cold hearted person, I just think that this is one of these stupid bloody society enforced taboos that if you say "Fuck you" to, you're suddenly considered someone who should be taken outside and shot, well sadly, i'll be flipping the birdie at society over this particular issue for a few more years.

P.S i'm not advocating something like Incest or anything as far as social taboos is concerned, strictly this topic is one of a few which I feel coerced into conformity over.

 

[Thorwyn]

What I get pissy about is again, the types that ram it down your throat daily and tell you it's YOUR fault that the countries are in thise state and it's YOUR responsibility to get them out of it.

I think we need to distinguish between "responsibility" and "compassion/humanity" here.
No, it´s not directly your fault that those countries are in a poor state and that the people are suffering. However, you gladly accept the cheap prices for coffee, tobacco or whatever other goods are coming from those countries. It´s a philosophical question whether or not that makes you guilty or responsible. (On a sidenote, I think it´s rather funny how people are proud of their country when it has achieved something positive, but quickly deny any form of connection when we´re talking about something negative. As in "we have won the football championship" but "it´s not me, it´s my bloody government".)
However, you can´t deny that you are taking advantage of the situation. As a matter of fact, the country you live in (and my country as well) has exploited those countries in the past and they´re - to an extend - still exploiting them. Accepting this fact and accepting the benefits while pointing your finger at the government doesn´t quite fit.

As for the compassion... that´s up to everyone. There´s so much misery in the world that it´s impossible to show compassion for everything and every case.

 

[Mojo]

If I were to give to a charity it would be something closer to home with a high % of donations going to the cause not Admin etc. Problems in other parts of the world are not my responsibility this doesn't change just because someone else say it is.

 

[Heta]

In sweden only 25% of the given sum needs to be given to the chairty, there for will I never give any charity... well prolly wouldn't give even if 100% went to it