Camelot Unchained

[Aada]

We're all entitled to our own opinions, I just believe yours is a bit self-centred, since you've clearly just said your intent is only to play a stealther class, and you want it easy mode, so there's no actual challenge in it apart from moving your character into the right place, at the right time..

I play group and solo characters including stealth classes, I'd prefer to see a Gutter Runner type class that was on WAR in the latter days, so many of you may have missed it, it had perma stealth, but took a bit longer to take down targets, or on the flipside have your 1shot on a caster, but then have a bigger cooldown for your stealth, and have nothing that's close to Vanish.

I think it's just a bit lame to have the character that does insane amounts of damage to also have the highest survivability, seems a bit bizarre to me..

Mark has already pointed out the maps are going to be large, so I think there should also be a factor in the game that means you have to time your kills so that no-one else is around, you cannot deny that on the bridges in NF, you could see an enemy heading towards the bridge, whilst you jump another who is on the bridge, and by the time the enemy has reached you, you're stealthed away, meaning you can rinse repeat.

Whilst, yes, I accept that Thiefs were pretty easy to play, they had nothing like vanish, so I couldn't jump a risky target and get away with complete ease.

I don't want it easy mode why do you keep saying that?

Why is perma stealth easy mode? DAOC made a mistake in giving stealthers options like going full DW/offhand Axe, stealthers should be all about that opening PA if they fail that then their chances of killing their target should be decreased drastically.

I played a Critblade in DAOC and my targets were casters and healers and imo that is what a stealthers targets should be and my focus was getting that PA chain off if it failed then there was a strong chance that I would die if vanish was down no questions and that is fine with me.

Stealthers in Camelot Unchained should be focused around that initial opening strikes, and giving them 30 seconds of stealth won't work, maybe 5mins of stealth but then how do you balance the cool down?

I disagree with your Thief experience they dealed insane damage to any class just hitting that 1 button over and over and over. They also had a shit load of toys to get away with as well.

 

[- English -]

I wouldn't mind the full stealth option, if it was like MJ said and was a trade off with other abilities / skills.
For example, you can spec in a line which grants longer stealth, but it would require reducing another stat. Also if you want to go 100% 2h sword, thats fine, but the drawback of 2h as a stealther could mean poor general performance in attack, but a very strong opening attack line. I agree there shouldn't be any nonsense with opening 2h then switching to dw and kicking ass etc.
Everything should be individual to the playstyle. If an assasin wants to play with poisons, let them spec them, ofcouse again this would mean reducing something else.

 

[BloodOmen]

Have agree with Aada on that one, being an Assassin should be about your opener, if you fail the opener then quite simply you drastically reduce your chances of killing anything.

Assassin targets should be primarily casters/healers and other squishy/support classes, Assassins should never be able to stand toe to toe with heavy armored targets, that's just logic. That is not to say a skilled Assassin cannot kill a heavy target, what it means is that it won't be as easy as it was in DAOC where you could simply pile on the debuff poisons, repeatedly reapply DoT poison and win without an issue OR vanish and run away if it all goes wrong leaving said heavy target drastically weakened/sitting duck for the next enemy that comes along.

I really hope Mark and the team stick to their guns on this one and make Assassin play be about pure skill, not button mashing/poison stacking and zerging.

 

[rynnor]

There wont be any 1 shot kills in this game said MJ last night - I'm happy to have perm stealth if its all poison dps that takes 5-10 seconds to kill allowing people to do something about it.

 

[BloodOmen]

There wont be any 1 shot kills in this game said MJ last night - I'm happy to have perm stealth if its all poison dps that takes 5-10 seconds to kill allowing people to do something about it.

He also said combat would not be over quickly so I doubt 5-10 seconds is even remotely close to how long it'll take to kill people. Speculating here but I'm gonna say combat will more than likely be WoW/GW2 like as far as fight durations go, some fights in WoW and GW2 do end very quickly admittedly but they can also take a long time - most likely he aims to do something like that as he said he liked some of the combat from "Original WoW" and "Guild Wars 2" in one of the videos last night/this morning.

 

[Gwadien]

He also said combat would not be over quickly so I doubt 5-10 seconds is even remotely close to how long it'll take to kill people. Speculating here but I'm gonna say combat will more than likely be WoW/GW2 like as far as fight durations go, some fights in WoW and GW2 do end very quickly admittedly but they can also take a long time - most likely he aims to do something like that as he said he liked some of the combat from "Original WoW" and "Guild Wars 2" in one of the videos last night/this morning.

If he plans on using a similar downed system, god damn i'll windmill.

 

[BloodOmen]

If he plans on using a similar downed system, god damn i'll windmill.

I would imagine not, CU will have dedicated healers so I assume they can also resurrect meaning you will likely die in CU.

 

[Nate]

You are not entitled to an opinion Gwadien.

 

[Gwadien]

You are not entitled to an opinion Gwadien.

Nor is your mum.

 

[Dutch_NS]

People are really butthurt fast when getting ganked by a stealther. I dont want an easymode class, i just like to pick my targets and not get perma steamrolled by groups and 30/60 sec stealth not gonna help me with that. If you play a caster and you run solo and you get ganked by a stealther then you should not whine! If he got the jump on you with his opening crit style you should die 99% of the time ( well in 1.114 its another story casters are OP as fuck atm) If the stealther fails you would have a 50% to win.

Its another story when a stealther decides to jump a tank, he has to pop really everything, play perfect, kite the tank arround, and still has a 50% to loose then. Its not an easy mode like this. The whiners are the people that play solo casters and then get ganked by a stealther.

 

[Nate]

trends moving up!

 

[Xandax]

People are really butthurt fast when getting ganked by a stealther. I dont want an easymode class, i just like to pick my targets and not get perma steamrolled by groups and 30/60 sec stealth not gonna help me with that. If you play a caster and you run solo and you get ganked by a stealther then you should not whine! If he got the jump on you with his opening crit style you should die 99% of the time ( well in 1.114 its another story casters are OP as fuck atm) If the stealther fails you would have a 50% to win.

Its another story when a stealther decides to jump a tank, he has to pop really everything, play perfect, kite the tank arround, and still has a 50% to loose then. Its not an easy mode like this. The whiners are the people that play solo casters and then get ganked by a stealther.

The issue is that the concept of a class which gets to pick its own fights due to a sort of permanent invisibility like ability must also have very high dps is kinda flawed towards the dps classes which do not get to pick their own fights.
On top of this - the stealth class usually have good defense or evasion - and in some games even have an almost failsafe escape skill which 'cheats' the enemy for his kill.

It is pretty flawed. I know stealthers appeal to some players, but more often than not - they simply causes issues with the game balance and grief and frankly - after the decade or so in MMOs, I'm not sure those issues are worth the hassle at the expense of the players which would be 'lost' by not having it.

Stealth should be redefined to be what stealth actually means. Not pseudo-invisibility on a high DPS class.

 

[- English -]

just been playing smackhammer ;p

 

[Muylaetrix]

I'm wondering how they will balance the crafting chars since everyone will be able to do the first two tiers of crafting/harvesting?

On that basis surely it makes sense for the crafters to be able to access a weak version of the rvr classes skills - being totally defenceless fodder doesnt make much sense?

i assume that crafters will be able to fight, just not as good as tanks/dps/stealhers.
i'm thinking along the line of the melee skills of daoc healer sort of stuff. to give them no self defense whatsoever would be ... wrong imho. they should not be ... sitting ducks. if non crafters can have access to the first tiers of crafting, crafters should have access to the first tiers of melee/spells/range. the equivalent of being limited to the daoc equivalent of 25 in melee and/or healing maybe ?

 

[Muylaetrix]

They didn't have vanish but they had a shitload of instant stealth get aways. Thinking back, the instant heal stealth, the gtaoe stealth, the backstab stab steath thingy

assuming you talk about GW2 stealth, there was the added +-3 seconds of stealth due to culling which made that thieves attacked from stealth but you didn't see them untill 3 seconds after they initiated their attack, by which time they could restealth and kill people without ever becoming visible. that was so broken.

 

[Dutch_NS]

My Gfx card get insane coilwhine when playing smackhammer, think it has to do that it goes over 2000 fps but cant cap it with vsync, i had the same problem in camelot @ char creation screen before patch 1.114.

 

[Muylaetrix]

just been playing smackhammer ;p

as far as a proof of concept goes before the kickstart finishes, i think it's awesome.

 

[Muylaetrix]

My Gfx card get insane coilwhine when playing smackhammer, think it has to do that it goes over 2000 fps but cant cap it with vsync, i had the same problem in camelot @ char creation screen before patch 1.114.

try run something in the background that eats 80+ % cpu time ? manually downclock your gpu to just a few 100 mhz ?

 

[Litmus]

Can't you force vsync in nvidia control panel?

 

[Soazak]

Michelle us currently doing some concept art on livestream

http://www.livestream.com/cselivestream

 

[rynnor]

If you play a caster and you run solo and you get ganked by a stealther then you should not whine! If he got the jump on you with his opening crit style you should die 99% of the time

Your talking about Daoc but this isnt daoc - classes in that tended to be balanced over pvp & pve - so stealthers werent much wanted or overpowered in pve but they shone in rvr and maybe that was a sort of balance.

But in a game thats only rvr classes must be balanced for rvr - solo casters will have to have a fighting chance even if jumped by a stealther.

 

[Iceforge]

Your talking about Daoc but this isnt daoc - classes in that tended to be balanced over pvp & pve - so stealthers werent much wanted or overpowered in pve but they shone in rvr and maybe that was a sort of balance.

But in a game thats only rvr classes must be balanced for rvr - solo casters will have to have a fighting chance even if jumped by a stealther.

I think Mark has already specifically stated that class being able to manage against any other class is not how he defines balance tho

 

[Mr Kevin Stares-Darbon]

he has also clearly stated that popping out of the veil and stunlocking/front end damage smack down will not happen either.
Altho you will be able to leave the veil anywhere, there maybe conditions on popping out of the veil and there will be no stun lock down.

He will give people a fair chance to react and possibly survive - not necessarily win, and probably most of the time, if the stealther plays well he can still win, but you're opponents will be able to try things to mess with your win guaranteeing wishes.

The VW has so much to offer as a stealth concept, far and above merely popping squishies - increased movement speed, levitation in the veil, ability to essentially magically side step walls.

This could be awesome, please let go of nostalgia and look at the possibilities this brings

 

[Muylaetrix]

he has also clearly stated that popping out of the veil and stunlocking/front end damage smack down will not happen either.
Altho you will be able to leave the veil anywhere, there maybe conditions on popping out of the veil and there will be no stun lock down.

He will give people a fair chance to react and possibly survive - not necessarily win, and probably most of the time, if the stealther plays well he can still win, but you're opponents will be able to try things to mess with your win guaranteeing wishes.

The VW has so much to offer as a stealth concept, far and above merely popping squishies - increased movement speed, levitation in the veil, ability to essentially magically side step walls.

This could be awesome, please let go of nostalgia and look at the possibilities this brings

shhh, anymore retelling of what MJ has said and you'll make Cyclodia cry !!!

 

[svartalf]

No stealth at all, please please please! It's the future!

 

[rynnor]

I think Mark has already specifically stated that class being able to manage against any other class is not how he defines balance tho

Sure - he has in the past talked about a rock/paper/scissors approach but this still doesnt mean 1 shot kills just a better chance of winning a 1v 1 against certain classes based on your class.

 

[Himse]

The more Mark has updated, the less I want to donate quite frankly. Some of the ideas are cool, others (such as stealth) are sounding lame.

People who cry about stealth are those who generally took 1 run on their RR1 eldritch in epic gear and get 2H PA'd by a rr11 SB and maintain that all stealthers do that much damage.

Back in Classic / SI days, stealthers were not so bad at all.

 

[rynnor]

Back in Classic / SI days, stealthers were not so bad at all.

They were never balanced from day 1 - but with the pain it used to take to level them in the early days there weren't that many of them so you didnt get the big stealth groups.

In the late game with levelling trivialised they got too common.

A pure rvr game has to have a better balance than daoc because theres no real pve game to fall back on.

 

[Aada]

I've decided to remove my pledge, just not happy with the stealth announcements and the more I see announced the more I am put off. As I said stealther is all I played and all I want to play so far the Veil sounds like something I won't like.

No front end damage? How are they going to do that? Just not enough info for me right now to make a pledge.


Good luck CSE.

 

[Gwadien]

Thing is, I'll roll a group class as my main, and play that in groups, but if stealthers are silly like they were on DAOC, I'd have no intention of rolling a visible solo class unless its a skald or something on them lines, so I can escape stealther classes, because frankly, when you're running around on your newborn Warrior that you only play a small amount anyway, it gets boring constantly getting raped by RR11 no-lifer stealthers.

If you stealthers are asking for what was in DAOC, be fully prepared for there to be less visible soloers and more stealthed groups, that you'll QQ about