Camelot Unchained

[Mr Kevin Stares-Darbon]

well, here is my understanding of the system at the moment from what I have seen.

You won't be killing monster a in 20 seconds, skinning it in 10 - rinse repeat. That isn't whats going to happen afaik.
I believe people are thinking about these systems in too traditional a way.

Mark has hinted more that, if you want animal leathers you will lay animal traps in various spots which won't instantly yield a trapped animal.
More like, you come back in a few hours and see if you trapped anything. Then, if you did trap some, you try to take them to a place where you can skin them and treat them to make leathers.

There is not going to be a material grind in the old sense, or an ingredient gather and skill click sort of crafting system.

Its more in the vein of setting machines/objects at the correct harvesting points and ten coming back to check of them at intervals, and maybe even prepare defenses or hire warrior classes to look after your interests, e.t.c.

Then, once you have built a workshop with the correct tools in it, you can start to treat, cut, shape, form and combine them into a weapon in a process that is more involving, more tailorable and more interesting than a 70 second wait for an item with quality/durability etc affected by an rng.

This game has the principles of daoc at its core, but in many ways not the same implementation.

 

[Kyrana]

He's assuming that they haven't already tried pvp'ing in other MMO's.

He's acting like the straight guy proclaiming that "i can make a lesbian girl straight if she just lets me fuck her"......

What is wrong with a purely pvp based game?

 

[Mr Kevin Stares-Darbon]

Ctuchik is saying that we can put words into other peoples mouths and that we should listen to that, even if we don't source or backup our statement with anything other than opinion

 

[Kyrana]

well, here is my understanding of the system at the moment from what I have seen.

You won't be killing monster a in 20 seconds, skinning it in 10 - rinse repeat. That isn't whats going to happen afaik.
I believe people are thinking about these systems in too traditional a way.

Mark has hinted more that, if you want animal leathers you will lay animal traps in various spots which won't instantly yield a trapped animal.
More like, you come back in a few hours and see if you trapped anything. Then, if you did trap some, you try to take them to a place where you can skin them and treat them to make leathers.

There is not going to be a material grind in the old sense, or an ingredient gather and skill click sort of crafting system.

Its more in the vein of setting machines/objects at the correct harvesting points and ten coming back to check of them at intervals, and maybe even prepare defenses or hire warrior classes to look after your interests, e.t.c.

Then, once you have built a workshop with the correct tools in it, you can start to treat, cut, shape, form and combine them into a weapon in a process that is more involving, more tailorable and more interesting than a 70 second wait for an item with quality/durability etc affected by an rng.

This game has the principles of daoc at its core, but in many ways not the same implementation.

Well said

 

[Mr Kevin Stares-Darbon]

Are you absolutely sure the game won't turn to microtransaction-free-to-play if the previous two fail?

Yes - Mark has openly stated on forums that if the subs method become non-viable he will close the servers rather than turn himself into a hypocrit.
Bit scary, but he has also released an update of a gamers charter, and point 7 says that if he does shut the servers, he will release the server source code and let the fan base run their own, fully functioning and fully operating servers under a suitable license.

I imagine the license will be similar to a standard gnu license that says you give credit to CSE for their code and properly document and credit code changes so that people clearly see who contributed what and don'tmalign cse, etc.
Well, that is speculation on the license, but it means that even if it goes south due to subs, we'll have continued access and personal use as a community of the developed software

 

[Kyrana]

Are you absolutely sure the game won't turn to microtransaction-free-to-play if the previous two fail?

Yes - Mark has openly stated on forums that if the subs method become non-viable he will close the servers rather than turn himself into a hypocrit.
Bit scary, but he has also released an update of a gamers charter, and point 7 says that if he does shut the servers, he will release the server source code and let the fan base run their own, fully functioning and fully operating servers under a suitable license.

I imagine the license will be similar to a standard gnu license that says you give credit to CSE for their code and properly document and credit code changes so that people clearly see who contributed what and don'tmalign cse, etc.
Well, that is speculation on the license, but it means that even if it goes south due to subs, we'll have continued access and personal use as a community of the developed software

I really think that is very cool Kevin.

 

[Mr Kevin Stares-Darbon]

What is the endgame for crafters?

Well, what is end-game for any1 in a hybrid but mostly horizontal levelling system focussed on pvp?
What is end-game for the rvr'ers?

There is no real end game. You will have greater and greater opportunity to affect the cosmetics and qualities of an item - within the constraints of a soft capped system.

What was the end-game for crafters in daoc?
Make the stuff that people needed?
Well you'll be able to do that from day 1 pretty much, without having to worry that your early skills will end up being catered to lvl 15 toons that will never ask for your justifiably expensive services.

Also, getting into the depths and making items on powerforges whilst enemy cosplay characters are doing their best in a giger way to scare the holy jeebus out of you sounds like a pretty cool advancement in your crafting memoirs. better than slogging my way up to 1050 spellcraft so i can sit in my house and make 500 gems, 10 of which are 99q and useable, 490 that i just resell at a false economy loss.

 

[Mr Kevin Stares-Darbon]

How do you plan to get a large enough playerbase to populate the world if you count out the pve crowd?
How do you plan for the game to stay online(and officially supported) if the previous does not happen? (read: with a small dedicated playerbase)

In some sense he doesn't count out the entire pve crowd. have you seen the ideas for monster cosplay?
Or pve guards blocking access to your mines and resources,and pve bosses that will need to be defeated to stop all your crafter harvesters being trashed and all your realm mates being thrown out of the depths?
All of this has been released on the site in updtes, etc.

The element of pve tht you wont get is, pul 10 werewolves, aoe them, gain ten billion and 2 exp, repeat - so that you can get the gigaflops of xp u need repeating your skills pointlessy so that you can get into the real game - rvr and its support thru crafting/building

 

[Mr Kevin Stares-Darbon]

Will the gear be sold for pvp tokens?

please expand on this because i have no idea what you are asking here....

 

[Mr Kevin Stares-Darbon]

raven likes to state his opinions as truth, even if they are or not

 

[Mr Kevin Stares-Darbon]

well, i hope that helps to answer a few questions from what I understand is the vision of implementation.

Oh, by the way, on the other stuff. I'm not trying to be rude as a personal attack, I'm just using your own logical methods of making statements about mark and other people and throwing them right back at you with yourselves as the subject to see how you enjoy that kind of thing/slander used on yourselves.

 

[Kyrana]

well, i hope that helps to answer a few questions from what I understand is the vision of implementation.

Oh, by the way, on the other stuff. I'm not trying to be rude as a personal attack, I'm just using your own logical methods of making statements about mark and other people and throwing them right back at you with yourselves as the subject to see how you enjoy that kind of thing/slander used on yourselves.

Thank you for taking the time to break that all down. You did a much better job then I would have.

 

[Raven]

raven likes to state his opinions as truth, even if they are or not

You might want to look up the words question, statement, theory and douchebag.

All I stated was that any MMO needs some form of currency and that crafters wont (and never have) make stuff for free.

Oh and that MJ is a complete mong who refuses to listen to any form of criticism, which he has got pretty much everything wrong in his MMOs...and admits as much in one of the early interviews.

 

[Mr Kevin Stares-Darbon]

source?

 

[Raven]

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/02/05/rvr-unchained-mark-jacobs-returns-to-camelot/

1st page of the thread.


....

He destroyed DAOC, if he had just improved on SI it would have been fine but he didn't.
WAR was bad from the start

No a great CV for a MMO lead.

 

[Mark Jacobs]

"Thanks. I'm sure I'll say some wrong things too and make some mistakes but it won't be because of arrogance or to protect my ass. And you are 100%, words don't mean squat, it's actions that count. I hope you will like both what you hear and see from me going forward."

​

Wow, that's a pretty far cry from getting everything wrong, never listening isn't it Raven? Do you know anybody who doesn't make any mistakes in his or her life? Especially when trying to make an MMORPG, working for a company such as EA, etc?

I'm happy to admit I'm not perfect, that I have made and will make mistakes but as to the never listening, can't take criticism, etc. I'm sorry but that just isn't true. Frankly, if that was true, I wouldn't be here or any of the those other sites I spend time on, even when I wasn't in the middle of a Kickstarter.

Hi all, BTW.

 

[Raven]

Ha! Got your staffy to give you a shove!



...and for the record, I have been pretty impressed with some of the newer press releases (whatever you want to call them)

 

[Mark Jacobs]

Ha! Got your staffy to give you a shove!

LOL. Not my staffy though. Got a couple of emails saying I should drop in here from backers. They suggested another place as well but, this seemed a little more active.

 

[Mark Jacobs]

Ha! Got your staffy to give you a shove!



...and for the record, I have been pretty impressed with some of the newer press releases (whatever you want to call them)

Edited: Because it's been a long day.
Yeah, I saw that earlier in the thread which is why I was a little confused with the hate. Blame certainly, but the hate? No matter what, I was either CEO or GM and I won't hide behind someone else or simply engage in throwing people under the bus. Mythic made some mistakes and I was the CEO, etc.

As far as being impressed, thanks, seriously. No sarcasm intended.

So, now that I'm here any questions I can answer from you or other folks?

 

[Raven]

Edit timer!

Edit, I just think you need to give a bit more information regarding how the economy would work, it's all good and well to say everything will be crafted by a crafter class but take it from a guy who had every crafter LGM before they made it easy, sitting there doing it for free generally won't happen. Without a pve (No PvE, I get it, I can live with it!) source of gold or some such it would be very difficult for some people to earn enough to buy the gear. You would soon end up with quite a divide between those that have the gold and those that don't, not to mention that it would become prohibitive to new starters.

With the announcement of the dungeon I came very near to chucking $50 at it, Darkness Falls was the best dungeon and PvP experience of any MMO.

I don't generally hate anyone

And nice to see you post! We are used to having grumpy Frenchman deliver our Camelot news.

 

[Dutch_NS]

Edited: Because it's been a long day.
Yeah, I saw that earlier in the thread which is why I was a little confused with the hate. Blame certainly, but the hate? No matter what, I was either CEO or GM and I won't hide behind someone else or simply engage in throwing people under the bus. Mythic made some mistakes and I was the CEO, etc.

As far as being impressed, thanks, seriously. No sarcasm intended.

So, now that I'm here any questions I can answer from you or other folks?

Mark Jacobs: What will prevent players that take over a boss, not to destory all the healers ? And then the casters and then the tanks? In a pve game the tank takes all the agro, but when a player controlls the boss what prevents them to just wack all the healer down?

Also will there be armor weaknessess across the realm? like entire albion was neutral to slash, midgard to crush damage and hibernia to thrust?

What are your plan for realm ranks?

Also positinal styles makes Camelot great, so have side attacks attack of parry and evade etc, will those be in Camelot unchained?

 

[Mr Kevin Stares-Darbon]

***grabs popcorn.

Hi mark!

****watches with interest

 

[BloodOmen]

Hi all, BTW.

Welcome to Freddyshouse

As for questions i'm sure people will come up with some good ones with the more info you guys release on CU, would be nice if you or another CSE member could drop by now and again to answer some of them.

Edit: trying to ponder some now myself

 

[Cirventhor]

Hi Mark!

How do you envision the tank role in RvR? Would be nice to see a return of the original Guard mechanic from DAoC.

Have you decided on a group size?

 

[Dutch_NS]

Also will there be a speed class like the Mincer,bard,skald? Without a speed class the game will just be a 100vs100vs100 zerg standoff like Guild wars 2 is.

 

[Gwadien]

I want proof it's the 'real' 2nd MJ! - Your credit card information should suffice sir!

 

[BloodOmen]

Also will there be a speed class like the Mincer,bard,skald? Without a speed class the game will just be a 100vs100vs100 zerg standoff like Guild wars 2 is.

Well, much like DAOC I doubt CU is being made purely with solo/fg v fg in mind, its a game made for massive RvR battles it was just down to the community that 8v8 took place etc... I do agree tho, would be nice to see a support class with some variation of speed.

 

[Mark Jacobs]

Edit timer!

Edit, I just think you need to give a bit more information regarding how the economy would work, it's all good and well to say everything will be crafted by a crafter class but take it from a guy who had every crafter LGM before they made it easy, sitting there doing it for free generally won't happen. Without a pve source of gold or some such it would be very difficult for some people to earn enough to buy the gear. You would soon end up with quite a divide between those that have the gold and those that don't not to mention that it would become prohibitive to new starters.

With the announcement of the dungeon I came very near to chucking $50 at it, Darkness Falls was the best dungeon and PvP experience of any MMO.

And nice to see you post! We are used to having grumpy Frenchman deliver our Camelot news.

LOL.

As to more information on the economy, I totally agree with you. It's going to be more challenging for us because pure crafters can't really fight in RvR very well. They can die very well but not fight very well. Thus we will have to ensure that they can make money on their own, with or without crafting, to be viable. What I'll say for now (other than don't pledge until you hear more of course) is that:

1) Crafters will have access to certain money-generating resources that non-crafters won't. They will also be able to exploit these and other resources better than non-crafters.

2) Crafters will be able to make items for their realm. Not a grindfest of making 100,000s of arrows but a modest 10,000! JK. It will be much more reasonable and less boring.

3) Crafters will be able to provide services for their realm that can earn them money.

4) Crafters/Non-crafters will have other sources of income that I'll talk about in a future update.

In terms of DF, that was a great innovation of course and I want to do even better this time. I think we have a great concept for it but as usual, the devil is in the details.

Mark

 

[BloodOmen]

LOL.

As to more information on the economy, I totally agree with you. It's going to be more challenging for us because pure crafters can't really fight in RvR very well. They can die very well but not fight very well. Thus we will have to ensure that they can make money on their own, with or without crafting, to be viable. What I'll say for now (other than don't pledge until you hear more of course) is that:

1) Crafters will have access to certain money-generating resources that non-crafters won't. They will also be able to exploit these and other resources better than non-crafters.

2) Crafters will be able to make items for their realm. Not a grindfest of making 100,000s of arrows but a modest 10,000! JK. It will be much more reasonable and less boring.

3) Crafters will be able to provide services for their realm that can earn them money.

4) Crafters/Non-crafters will have other sources of income that I'll talk about in a future update.

In terms of DF, that was a great innovation of course and I want to do even better this time. I think we have a great concept for it but as usual, the devil is in the details.

Mark

I have a question regarding the dragon artwork CSE released and something I read in one of the news letters:

"what if our world’s dragons were a mere reflection of what these beings are in their own reality? In addition, what if in their dimension their technology is what we call magic? Then, what if a cataclysmic event pierced the walls (Veil) and the power from that dimension flooded our world – a world with no magic, wizards, and dragons?" - Camelot Unchained News

Where do Dragons fit in if there is no PVE? what will the rewards be if there is no gear grinding/farming? will each realm have their own unique/named dragon?


p.s needs more dragon! everyone loves dragons

 

[Mark Jacobs]

***grabs popcorn.

Hi mark!

****watches with interest

LOL. I need some popcorn too but sadly, still on Atkins diet. So no popcorn for me.