bonedancing teh movie

[Pipppi]

yup think the realms are as balanced as theyll ever get, alb come out worse mainly due to often having to choose between crapendreg and resistsbuffs. Hibs have got bainshee as great interupt tool and vamps can almost do the same job as a bd, bit more dmg bit less interupting. If you choose not to run with OP classes becasue you want a bigger challenge, /clap to that as long as you relize others will try to bring the best possible setup out.

 

[Edlina]

Have a comment to this. Why should we win "all of the fights" when RR is your advantage and it's a partly experienced guild group against a 5 times pug with new people in almost each fight?

If we play together a year, reach a decent RR on the pac it's probably a different storry! QQ

Bloody learn to read, I said if all variables were equal, that includes RR, jump, terrain etc etc.

Ibilina I think you were just prooven wrong considering all these above replies from ppl with active mid chars saying mid is op'ed. (I never said they were way op'ed, but everyone with some sence will agree the setup of mid grps are the best you can make from 1 realm, when you add on top of that running the best vs a less fotm setup well, the variables need to shift even more in hibs advantage to win)

 

[[NO]Subedai]

ye fact is rvr is never gonna be completely balanced, its impossible. post nf rvr is actually alot more balanced than it was previously. So guess we gotta acccept how it is.

 

[Ibilic]

i have never claimed the realms are perfectly balanced. just saying that mid is not always the godmode certain hib players claim it to be and that it comes down to more then just overpowered classes if you want to kill something .

though i fail to see how your grp setup with 5-6 baruns or something is less opted

 

[Puppet]

Disease isn't really a problem on toa servers though.
And i don't rly wanna agree that the quality of interupts is worse, rootspam is the best tool there is for interupt purposes, which hib have 2 ae versions of. Instalulls and instadd from bard is very handy aswell.
Nothing beats the util of pac healer though.

Disease is less of a problem on TOA-servers, but it still is a problem. It only takes 1-2 secs of a melee-class to get diseased to never (or well till the next Charge-cycle) to catch a shaman... only to get diseased again.

If you compare PAC/AUG/SHAMAN versus DRUID/DRUID/BARD I dont think you give the full story. A Bard and a PAC-healer somehow have about the same 'task' in the FG. Except the bard is the only demezzer compared to having two of that in the Mid-FG. Also Bard is only serious mezzer, the AUG-healer can Single Target Mezz after the initial CC (with Charges, CB-feedbacks etc) incase the PAC is occupied shortly.

Also a Shaman is a much better shearer then a druid, due to MOC1, which the druid cant reliably use (in the same way). Lets not forget the better potential DEX and shorter cast-times on the shears in Midgard. The shaman can 100% focus on interrupting/diseasing/shearing/rebuffing where the druid has to atleast heal aswell.

BD versus Vamp/Bainshee isnt exactly fair either. Bainshee has to stand still to interrupt (which does matter, IMO) and BD has way more survivability (+aint allowed to stun him) and a Pet. Oh and Banelord (sigh).


If you take the full group into the discussion, one can say the BM is better then the Berserker. But when it comes to the other classes, I think SM>Eldritch/Chanter, Midsupport>Hibsupport as stated above (all IMO btw), Warrior>Warden (perhaps better next patch with shieldspec dunno). And the BD>Bainshee/Vamp thingie aswell for the job it has to do.

Anyhow just my 2 cents, the balance is abit better then 10 patches ago, but still I think it has more to do with more or less accepting the fact BD is here to stay then anything else.

 

[Konah]

any grp that runs with a bainshee has nothing to complain about bd's tbh.

 

[noaim]

If you compare PAC/AUG/SHAMAN versus DRUID/DRUID/BARD I dont think you give the full story. A Bard and a PAC-healer somehow have about the same 'task' in the FG. Except the bard is the only demezzer compared to having two of that in the Mid-FG. Also Bard is only serious mezzer, the AUG-healer can Single Target Mezz after the initial CC (with Charges, CB-feedbacks etc) incase the PAC is occupied shortly.

Also a Shaman is a much better shearer then a druid, due to MOC1, which the druid cant reliably use (in the same way). Lets not forget the better potential DEX and shorter cast-times on the shears in Midgard. The shaman can 100% focus on interrupting/diseasing/shearing/rebuffing where the druid has to atleast heal aswell.

Rofl, yeah, you dont think he gives the full story, then you say that pachealer and bard has the same task except that the bard is only demezzer. Ofc, the bard heals as much as the pachealer, doesnt he? And ofc the 1 shaman is a better shearer than druids because he dont have to heal, while the pachealer is just a good an interrupter as the bard, even though he has to heal. You twist it as much as possible to make it sound as overpowered as possible in favor of mid, then you say "I dont think you are telling the full story" lol. Go buy a clue, as d3f1 would say.

And tell me, what difference does moc1 vs moc3 really make, when the druids are rr10+ and would have moc3 anyways?

And SM is better than chanter/eldie vs tanks, but chanter/eldie has an advantage vs sm´s, duo to stun and range/instainterrupt (if it is still working) advantage. Bainshee has an advantage over all casters in caster vs caster, except for warlock and bd (and moccing lifetapper). But go ahead and tell yourself you lose because your grpchars are gimped, if it makes you feel better.

 

[Eregion]

Rep

 

[Puppet]

Rofl, yeah, you dont think he gives the full story, then you say that pachealer and bard has the same task except that the bard is only demezzer. Ofc, the bard heals as much as the pachealer, doesnt he? And ofc the 1 shaman is a better shearer than druids because he dont have to heal, while the pachealer is just a good an interrupter as the bard, even though he has to heal. You twist it as much as possible to make it sound as overpowered as possible in favor of mid, then you say "I dont think you are telling the full story" lol. Go buy a clue, as d3f1 would say.

U got a point there, tho I do think PAC-healers are less heavy on healing then you make it out, but you could also say that 1 healer goes less heavy on healing and more shearing.

Also, there is no reason to go on with 'rofl lol'-language, is there?

And tell me, what difference does moc1 vs moc3 really make, when the druids are rr10+ and would have moc3 anyways?

Im rather unsure about this point. Whether or not druids would have MOC3 or not is very irrelevant. If a Shaman spends 5 points in MOC1 he can do everything in full effect, for 5 RA points. Now these druids spend 30 points, and still gimp their heals for 25%. Abit silly to say that it makes no difference, 25 RA points and 25% healing-effect (basically TOA) lost versus 5 RA-points and be fully effective.

And SM is better than chanter/eldie vs tanks, but chanter/eldie has an advantage vs sm´s, duo to stun and range/instainterrupt (if it is still working) advantage. Bainshee has an advantage over all casters in caster vs caster, except for warlock and bd (and moccing lifetapper). But go ahead and tell yourself you lose because your grpchars are gimped, if it makes you feel better.

Why do you always put everything in a degrading tone? I could be a total ass and now turn your argument against you 'lol but if the SM is RR11 he would have MOC3 anyhow' but I wont.

While stun is very nice to have, you should not forget DarkSM lifetap puts less strains on the healers, and can often happily nuke through a tank pounding on him (or even two) if luck on his side. Also stun has an immunity-timer, and can be purged. The SM-intercept pet has no real timer on its effect and cant be purged. Warlord is a counter, more or less, but I dont see many offensive Warlord-tanks in a typical FG.

Also dont forget the Warrior, its the tank with the best 2H dps from all heavytanks and can seriously hurt an offensive tank, compare that to the Warden

Now it dont make me feel better when I say Midgard is better in general then Albion or Hibernia. I dont do much FG-RvR at all, because I like the solo-game alot. But perhaps you are right and I look at it one-sided (from a Hibernian PoV) tho I felt the same problems when playing Albion on classic, however it makes you look like silly when you counter arguments with 'He is rr10+ so would have MOC3 anyhow' then an alinea later easily say that a Bainshee>SM but totally neglecting your SM is RR10+ and would have MOC3 aswell. And totally going by the difference of 25 RA-points and neglecting -25% effect on heals (which is a big deal)

 

[Septina]

i have never claimed the realms are perfectly balanced. just saying that mid is not always the godmode certain hib players claim it to be and that it comes down to more then just overpowered classes if you want to kill something .

though i fail to see how your grp setup with 5-6 baruns or something is less opted

:worthy:

 

[noaim]

I said that moccing lifetappers > bainshees though, and depending on grpsetup, have 25% duration on root can be pretty shit. And take a look on what RA´s a shaman need, if they needed moc3 to shear effectively they would get it. A pachealer needs moc3 to go offensive and interrupt, thats also 25 points more than a bard would need if he went moc1, and 25% lost heals, vs less cc-duration (which shaman also gets with moc1), so I dont really consider that a valid argument to why mid would be better, even if I do agree that mid has a slight edge, just not the huge advantage that you seem to think.

If I moc vs a chanter, he can also moc and stun me, or qc stun, then I have to purge aswell, so even if I can be even with him if I use 2 timed ra´s, I dont see how that makes sm better than chanter in sm vs chanter duel. Eldritch can ns and stun if another caster mocs on them, so same thing would apply there.

Finally, I dont have moc because I prefer doing more damage all the time than lowering it with like 10%+ permanently and then another 25% while using moc.

 

[Valgyr]

Well imo mid is a tad better like pupp said due to:
Support u have 2 demezzers and both can do single CC, if u look at the paccer he doesnt have to interupt the same amount as bard does as he has shammy on his side to do that very good.

Sojo on a support char*2

Insta pbao dis to kite+interupt moc 1 shear

aoe stun

SM pet

BDs

I also agree that its more balanced now then in a long time. Perma interupts from pwyoo is silly tho

 

[Edlina]

i have never claimed the realms are perfectly balanced. just saying that mid is not always the godmode certain hib players claim it to be and that it comes down to more then just overpowered classes if you want to kill something .

though i fail to see how your grp setup with 5-6 baruns or something is less opted

No, you just said that "only people without mid chars say mid is op'ed"

While that's clearly not true.

Oh, and alb players just as much as hib ones claim mid to be the op'ed realm, maybe mids should just face the facts... A group setup isn't opted based on their rr, but their classes, and rr is a variable, but maybe you still don't get it? - If not try looking up ze word and take some math lessons

Finally, I dont have moc because I prefer doing more damage all the time than lowering it with like 10%+ permanently and then another 25% while using moc.

No, you don't have moc cos you're not absolutely forced to have it, unlike a chanter and an eld in a grp playing against a mid grp with opted setup, including a bd. Just cos you have a choice doens't mean everyone else do if they want to be able to hit the enemy at all...

 

[noaim]

No, you don't have moc cos you're not absolutely forced to have it, unlike a chanter and an eld in a grp playing against a mid grp with opted setup, including a bd. Just cos you have a choice doens't mean everyone else do if they want to be able to hit the enemy at all...

I wouldnt get moc on any damagedealing caster in any realm.

 

[Edlina]

I wouldnt get moc on any damagedealing caster in any realm.

When you play against a mid grp with 2 offensive characters, you have a choice between nuking those and the mid pets, or going into range of the bd and get interrupted. But yea, having your casters limited to nuking the 2 least obvious ppl out of the enemy grp makes a lot of sence.

 

[Belomar]

Less whine and excuses.

 

[noaim]

When you play against a mid grp with 2 offensive characters, you have a choice between nuking those and the mid pets, or going into range of the bd and get interrupted. But yea, having your casters limited to nuking the 2 least obvious ppl out of the enemy grp makes a lot of sence.

Most grps nukes the offensive characters first, since if you go offensive as a caster while 1-2 banelords are alive you will either be interrupted, or demoralized+sheared in moc and doing fuck all damage most of he time. Only when support goes too offensive (or when you can stun em with baselinestun maybe) do people tend to go for others than the banelords as long as they are alive. At least in 9 out of 10 fights our banelords dies first if someone dies. But if you think you can just walk in and kill a hibcaster as a midcaster, just because you dont have a bd in grp, you really need to understand that hibs also have plenty of interrupts, plus ns.

 

[Vodkafairy]

well thats exactely the point, a bonedancer can go offensive without an awful lot of risk and totally negate mages much better then a single banelord can. and also, they can do that the entire fight bar 30 seconds of moc (and even that can be negated mostly by banelords) whereas a banelord has to stay the fuck away from mages once he's out of stuff to use.

i do think its a bit weak to blame everything on a bd tho, as gay as it is to fight against one, hibs can win but it needs very good coordination and some luck

 

[Ibilic]

No, you just said that "only people without mid chars say mid is op'ed"

While that's clearly not true.

Oh, and alb players just as much as hib ones claim mid to be the op'ed realm, maybe mids should just face the facts... A group setup isn't opted based on their rr, but their classes, and rr is a variable, but maybe you still don't get it? - If not try looking up ze word and take some math lessons

He He mmm i said only people without mid charrs thinks that mid should never loose.

but if you cant see the difference you really shouldnt try explaining what a variable is to me

 

[Ibilic]

anyhow nm the discussion is getting abit out of hand now

I do get your point and i hope you get mine, peace out

 

[Edlina]

He He mmm i said only people without mid charrs thinks that mid should never loose.

but if you cant see the difference you really shouldnt try explaining what a variable is to me

Ok, then please tell me where anyone said mid should never loose. Cos if no one did, there's no point in your statement. (and don't say they should loose cos of lower rr or whatever, it's a fkin variable, get it?) And you agree that mid is OP'ed therefore even you yourself agrees that they should never loose, variables not taken into consideration.

Belomar, you don't have to post just for the sake of posting, if you have nothing new, or in any way relevant, to say, just don't?

I never said that Aim, I said that once your banelord tanks are dead we can't move offensive the way you can because as soon as our casters move into range of the bd our dmg is totally negated - without moc. (except for 2 tanks but that's not rly the where the main dmg lies, and they can possibly be negated by the 5 other characters or the tanks if they're ressed yet)

I honestly don't think you get my point even if it's very simple, or you just won't admit that mid is op'ed and therefore should win all fights, if all variables were equal. If we agree that mid is op'ed, which we can ye? - then we must also agree that they should win every fight where all variables are equal, it's very simple math...

 

[Septina]

all variables wont ever be equal tho? And most times the variables (realm ranks) are in your favor, atleast on cluster since your grps probably is the most high realm rank group on the server. :O

 

[Ibilic]

I dont think mid is oped to always win if variables being equal though ( which they never are )

 

[Edlina]

I started out by saying that all variables will never be equal, l2read guis

And if you don't think so ibi that's fine, but then don't say you think mid is op, cos by saying they are you automatically say that mid always win, variables being equal (it's like saying x>y but that that's no longer true when you add z to both sides - it doens't make sence...) And don't say it's only ppl not playing mid who says so, when almost everyone who posted here agrees that mid is op'ed, and therefore should win ><

So just admit you were wrong about it's only ppl not playing mid who thinks so funny to you or not

 

[Oldbone|Ramble]

Arent you suppose to sleep Septina?^^ GO SLEEP!!!

 

[Eregion]

I never realised this was a maths game ;(

 

[Ibilic]

wtf i never said it either ed :|

 

[Edlina]

wtf i never said it either ed :|

I didn't say that, I said I don't need an excuse as technically, all variables being equal, you should win all the fights (obviously all variables are (almost) never equal so it's not like that).

anyone else then me finding it funny that all of the players that claim u should never loose on mid, is the ones that dont have any mid charr ?

not saying bds aint rly op though :>

You said that only ppl not playing mid says mids should never loose to my reply of that if mid = op'ed, then mid = should never loose, if all variables were equal. So yea, you did actually say that (and note me saying all variables are (almost) never equal, already there! )


It's always been a maths game, ever heard of making a template?

 

[Septina]

This is just all....... so sad

 

[Spetsnaz]

I never realised this was a maths game ;(

well its this game got some math to do now and than...