Balancing Insta CC

[Puppet]

in something as fundamentally important as rvr it wuld be a good idea to homogenise the messes of each realm.
like give sorc healer bard basically the same messes. make game alot better

The problem is a fully buffed Saracen sorc has alot more DEX then a bard/healer who dont get DEX during levelling and can only choose a 60 DEX race max so we're talking about atleast having 30-40 more DEX also the ability to quickcast (which can be used to CC the ones 'on you' like an insta).

CC becomes less important in Frontiers I think for the majority of classes because of the (expensive) 5 mins Purge. Will be worse for Det5 tanks compared to now but they needed a nerf anyhow

 

[stubbe]

The only advantage insta CC has atm is that it's easier to purge/countermez if you should happen to loose first CC. Something that should never happen with a good sorc.

 

[Asha]

and sorc has so poor utility, with dex/qui debuff, dex debuff,str/con debuff, str debuff, root.

if there is someone that can whine about util it should be the bard wich basicly just has mezz and endsong, + interrupts wich is quite easy to avoid by rooting him and moveing outside the 700 range dd

If someone complains of sorc utility they are silly Sorc is good...
Bard has also speed, demez, REZ, heal, etc... in a way it almost has too much to be able to do it all. Doesn't it have another interupt other than dd ? Some lull thing with some uber range mmm 2300 or so? zzz add + range to it... zzzz
About the 5 min purge. Sure, it's good but sorry you still will get cc'ed in the average fight. With things like more insta heals and egg of youth, fights *should* last longer...

 

[Konah]

Bards and healers are able to land mezz perfectly fine and dont have to relie on Insta's all the time, as im sure most good healers or bards will say, just sometimes its used to get an advantage.

as in 'ohhh shiiiit that sorc is halfway thru his cast i'm gonna lose mezzz!!1 <click> phew! saved, we roxxor tbh!'

the range argument is total bullshit, 95% of fights start within bolt range, if the healer/bard feels hes gonna lose mezz he insta's, we see it all the time. DH do it, Nolby do it, they all do it. If we do win mezz it either gets GP'd or a healer/bard purges and insta's, thus a simple beatdown turns into a 50/50 fight :kissit:

having the option of insta(mezz&root&stun) >>> cast mezz even if it lasts 3s on det tanks

 

[Vasconcelos]

having the option of insta(mezz&root&stun) >>> cast mezz even if it lasts 3s on det tanks

Which in any case is handy when u have the assist train on you and feel the need of having 3secs distance btwn you and those "sharp things that make your hps go down".

 

[rvn]

as in 'ohhh shiiiit that sorc is halfway thru his cast i'm gonna lose mezzz!!1 <click> phew! saved, we roxxor tbh!'

the range argument is total bullshit, 95% of fights start within bolt range, if the healer/bard feels hes gonna lose mezz he insta's, we see it all the time. DH do it, Nolby do it, they all do it. If we do win mezz it either gets GP'd or a healer/bard purges and insta's, thus a simple beatdown turns into a 50/50 fight :kissit:

having the option of insta(mezz&root&stun) >>> cast mezz even if it lasts 3s on det tanks

then again most of your sorcs are pretty blind or on 33k modem

 

[Fedaykin]

i cant remember the last time i lost a straight mezz fight to a healer, bards can do it sometimes if they time their insta amnesia perfectly - (when i see them coming of course, if we bump into each other on a hill its insta time and my /face QC doesnt always cut it)

this is because to lose a castable mezz fight they need to stop /face and mezz and the sorc has a 350 range advantage in this area.

now this sounds great but also has its drawbacks.

If a healer sees a sorc approaching head on he should know that he wont win - so what does he do? Hits sprint (if he was running speed 6 already) and whacks the iinsta whatever - giving plenty of time to land a castable mez over the top

The other day my group (wasnt the best ever) was going through mmg and i saw the NP group approaching led by Medde (i think ;X ) i selected him basically on clip range and started spamming by aoe - He managed to land the insta.

YOu start casting a blanket of senility etc
you are already casting this spell and prepare it as a backup (or whatever it says)

suddenly : you cannot cast while mesmerised.

i have 25% cast speed, + 4% range at the moment mastery of the art 3, aug dex, and have 328 dex when fully buffed - and insta still won

the point is 350 extra range is absolutely nothing - it is a split second running at speed 6 and therefore an insta can be landed. I'm not saying this always happens (infact it very rarely does)

another time facing NP running towards them i see them on clip range start to /face mezz (didnt QC cos as most people know it cannot be done faster than 2 secs - THIS NEEDS FIXING) Tricksy Endineit (/hug btw) hits Ichor- this is being fixed, but at the moment its another method of making sure the group has the initiative entering a fight.

In my opinion:

make the demezz very high on the pacification spell line (more demezzers is a very nice advantage) Or give Demezz to clerics/Druids

Make AOE insta range 750
Let them keep single instas at whatever they are at now.

AOE insta's have much less effect when i'm runing in a guild group with a good minstrel (Sunwolf) - because a good mincer will land the insta 9 sec STUN on the Pac healer/bard giving me a huge amount of time to CC

i see very few minstrels doing this - Sunwolf drives our group and i believe that a minstrel driving is a better option than a sorc (sorc then has ability to pan camera better) There is no real reason why a minstrel cannot beat a healer to an insta

 

[rvn]

on clip range and started spamming by aoe - He managed to land the insta.

pure bs, since we are running at only speed4 + sprint this is not possible, unless you forgot your dex buffs or reacted to slow

 

[Konah]

then again most of your sorcs are pretty blind or on 33k modem

yes, insults change the facts ofc

didnt u delete ur sorc (co-founder of FC for those that don't know) cos u hated dying all the time and losing cc to instas? rofl...

gogo eassssyyymode! :worthy:

 

[rvn]

deleted my sorc, cause playing with np > playing with you konah.

oh and sorcs had it tough with 1500 range vs 1500 range instas, alltho i played stupid back then i can agree, if i would have done it again i would have made sure i had singel dex + dex/qui on main mezzbar, since hitting those while bard/healer is in 1500 range helps alot

 

[rvn]

oh and the reason medde could beat you fedayin also, is that he has supperior equipment with more + % range, and cloudsong ability on with additional +5% range aswell, so with equal equipment sorc should never fail with an head on mezz fight

 

[Alme]

so sorc should have a 1.1 min mezz (or what ever it is) with 2 sec cast when they qc, and bards/healers get a 30 sec mezz with 2 sec delay insta..
if u wanna use this new rule the insta mezz has to have the same dur as a cast.

 

[Fedaykin]

on clip range and started spamming by aoe - He managed to land the insta.

pure bs, since we are running at only speed4 + sprint this is not possible, unless you forgot your dex buffs or reacted to slow

no and no

insta won - its not actually in debate it was a fact

as i have said it very rarely happens - might have been server lag or something - and i am sure i have seen you with a skald a couple of times (turgon maybe?)

 

[Konah]

deleted my sorc, cause playing with np > playing with you konah.

so many insults so few answers

so u kissed ass into nolby before or after u deleted and rerolled mid then? :wub:

 

[stubbe]

i see very few minstrels doing this - Sunwolf drives our group and i believe that a minstrel driving is a better option than a sorc (sorc then has ability to pan camera better) There is no real reason why a minstrel cannot beat a healer to an insta

This is how you win a mezfight. When you spot the enemy group, sorc drops behind out of AE insta range, /face and mez when pachealers enter range. Very few pachealers will go for the sorc, because that means going through the albgroup, in range of minstrel mez. When the pachealer instead instastuns the driver, you have all the time in the world to cast AE mez.

If a healer is running at speed6, it's basically 50/50 who wins, sorc or healer. If sorc isn't driving, these odds are drastically changed. Ruune from AD won alot of CC fights vs our group, and that was before TOA with all it's castspeedincreases.

 

[Fedaykin]

oh and the reason medde could beat you fedayin also, is that he has supperior equipment with more + % range, and cloudsong ability on with additional +5% range aswell, so with equal equipment sorc should never fail with an head on mezz fight

maybe

my cloudsong is only level 1 atm only + range is from my GoV really need to get it levelled up

will have some from Jacina's sash also in 1.68 cant level it effectively atm so will have to wait

now you have raised an interesting point though

a healer with max + range should be very close to beating a sorc with no +range

problem for those sorcs without toa

 

[Alme]

i cant remember the last time i lost a straight mezz fight to a healer, bards can do it sometimes if they time their insta amnesia perfectly - (when i see them coming of course, if we bump into each other on a hill its insta time and my /face QC doesnt always cut it)

this is because to lose a castable mezz fight they need to stop /face and mezz and the sorc has a 350 range advantage in this area.

now this sounds great but also has its drawbacks.

If a healer sees a sorc approaching head on he should know that he wont win - so what does he do? Hits sprint (if he was running speed 6 already) and whacks the iinsta whatever - giving plenty of time to land a castable mez over the top

The other day my group (wasnt the best ever) was going through mmg and i saw the NP group approaching led by Medde (i think ;X ) i selected him basically on clip range and started spamming by aoe - He managed to land the insta.

YOu start casting a blanket of senility etc
you are already casting this spell and prepare it as a backup (or whatever it says)

suddenly : you cannot cast while mesmerised.

i have 25% cast speed, + 4% range at the moment mastery of the art 3, aug dex, and have 328 dex when fully buffed - and insta still won

the point is 350 extra range is absolutely nothing - it is a split second running at speed 6 and therefore an insta can be landed. I'm not saying this always happens (infact it very rarely does)

another time facing NP running towards them i see them on clip range start to /face mezz (didnt QC cos as most people know it cannot be done faster than 2 secs - THIS NEEDS FIXING) Tricksy Endineit (/hug btw) hits Ichor- this is being fixed, but at the moment its another method of making sure the group has the initiative entering a fight.

In my opinion:

make the demezz very high on the pacification spell line (more demezzers is a very nice advantage) Or give Demezz to clerics/Druids

Make AOE insta range 750
Let them keep single instas at whatever they are at now.

AOE insta's have much less effect when i'm runing in a guild group with a good minstrel (Sunwolf) - because a good mincer will land the insta 9 sec STUN on the Pac healer/bard giving me a huge amount of time to CC

i see very few minstrels doing this - Sunwolf drives our group and i believe that a minstrel driving is a better option than a sorc (sorc then has ability to pan camera better) There is no real reason why a minstrel cannot beat a healer to an insta

if ure in the back of ure grp, stops on inc and the grps continues forward i can promise u the bard or healer will stop and mezz the grp inc, not run into em and trying to mezz the sorc cuz thatll be imposs/stupid. Ie u can stand back there spamming ure mezz and voila

 

[Fedaykin]

This is how you win a mezfight. When you spot the enemy group, sorc drops behind out of AE insta range, /face and mez when pachealers enter range. Very few pachealers will go for the sorc, because that means going through the albgroup, in range of minstrel mez. When the pachealer instead instastuns the driver, you have all the time in the world to cast AE mez.

If a healer is running at speed6, it's basically 50/50 who wins, sorc or healer. If sorc isn't driving, these odds are drastically changed. Ruune from AD won alot of CC fights vs our group, and that was before TOA with all it's castspeedincreases.

thats exactly what needs to be done

problem arises in meetings such as milegates where there is not always time to do this

 

[Chronictank]

give helaers/bards same cast time and range.. until then its ignorant to remove insta mez.
But then that will mean less diversity between realms...
range v insta..
Considering they have to sprint into range to mez imo thats balance... but thats just me.

btw do sorc get qcast?

 

[Aussie]

the few times i've RvR i've been able to land alot more mezzes on enemy groups but then again I don't know if he didn't fuck up or tried to use insta.
And still speed 6 + insta > sorc.

 

[rvn]

yes, insults change the facts ofc

didnt u delete ur sorc (co-founder of FC for those that don't know) cos u hated dying all the time and losing cc to instas? rofl...

gogo eassssyyymode! :worthy:

any realm is easymode with the right players in group

 

[Fedaykin]

give helaers/bards same cast time and range.. until then its ignorant to remove insta mez.
But then that will mean less diversity between realms...
range v insta..
Considering they have to sprint into range to mez imo thats balance... but thats just me.

btw do sorc get qcast?

sorcs DO get Quick cast

however the problem with it is :

it is hard capped at 2 seconds - meaning a normal mezz is twice as fast and therefore there is very little point using it - this cap should be removed in my opinion - 2 secs is a VERY long time in RvR

 

[Aussie]

btw do sorc get qcast?

last time i checked, i had 1k hp, cloth armor and got interrupted while someone was hitting me

 

[Pin]

last time i checked, i had 1k hp, cloth armor and got interrupted while someone was hitting me

1500+ hp, 640+ af, and a bodyguard to stop all melee interrupts ^^

 

[Pin]

i have 25% cast speed, + 4% range at the moment mastery of the art 3, aug dex, and have 328 dex when fully buffed - and insta still won

328dex? you may aswell run with post-1.68 +castspeed...

 

[Dorin]

so many insults so few answers

so u kissed ass into nolby before or after u deleted and rerolled mid then? :wub:

m8 i can understand him, farming albs all the time (no ass kissing, but nolby spam is quite long sometimes) is a lot of fun, a lot better then being the 123th alb in emain... but then again albion is hardmode (xDDD).

 

[Exioce]

nothing easymode about winning CC vs AD group
insta the paladin + mincer, start castable mez on the group, search for the sorc and insta him before he casts, pray that neither of your 10min instas gets resisted, ppl purge, or lag run right through you
I always thought that healer was most powerful CC'r, but feel most secure with the Bard now;
insta AEmez (300radius)
single instamez
single lul (5sec recastable)
ae lul (10sec recastable)
DD (10sec recastable)
higher dex
not being primary target
Group Purge (xDDDD)

 

[Novamir]

feel most secure with a bard? how about chain and 2 instant heals for feeling secure?

 

[Exioce]

how about noone giving a shit about the bard when there are luwis to gank, and simply running thru box to lose any aggro

 

[Novamir]

who said you can't box, and use kobies(SMs) in group?