Asylum Seekers; Yay or Nay?

[Tom]

it quite simply is the biggest concern for most people, whipped up by the media..

Bigger than paying the bills, keeping a job, staying healthy, the weather, who's playing Arsenal this weekend, the price of food, Eastenders?

Horse shit.

 

[Job]

Well yes.

On another note, the wifes sister who is living near Loughborough went out with friends, she booked a cab..it arrives with a woman in the passenger seat, luckily there was only three of them, still a bit tight in the back...the woman in the front?
The drivers wife, she was his interpretor.
They laughed about it and I'm not going to complain about his desire to earn money the proper way, but still...bit odd.

 

[throdgrain]

When I worked at Barclaycard I was amazed at how pc people were. I didn't think it was because they wanted to be, I think it was out of fear as much as anything. Fear of discipline from the company I mean.

Now I'm back in my normal job we say what we want and do what we want. Good.

 

[Bodhi]

Despite being a US company PC Principal hasn't really made an appearance at our place, and I do hear some concerns from the "poor coddled white people" that our resident misanthrope refers to.

Mostly from our German office, funnily enough....

 

[throdgrain]

At Barclaycard about a third of the employees were foreign. It was a shock to me must be said. Going into the break room where people were watching the cricket, and everyone was supporting the other team ...

 

[Gwadien]

I think being PC in the workplace is extremely important.

I'm pretty sure you wouldnt want a Muslim guy in your workplace saying how he hates white people as much as you saying how much you hate Muslims.

I mean, sure you could beat him up as a result, but don't come crying when he blows you up.

It's not that were being pussies about what we talk about in the workplace, its simply to not dent productivity by having Sanjay in HR all day complaining how he's offended.

 

[throdgrain]

Wasn't making a judgement actually, just saying what I felt.

To be clear, I hate Islam, that's not precisely the same as hating Muslims individually.

 

[Gwadien]

Wasn't making a judgement actually, just saying what I felt.

To be clear, I hate Islam, that's not precisely the same as hating Muslims individually.

It's pretty much the same thing though.

It's like me saying I think that people that ride motorbikes are uneducated, stupid and thugs.

But I like motorcyclists individually

You're still insulting someones identity, so therefore you're insulting the person as an individual.

Sure, in the open world, it's stupid that you can get sacked for saying something like that as an employee (Freedom of speech and all that, so long as you're not actively inciting hatred sure)

But it really shouldn't be in the workplace, imagine if you have a 50% 50% muslim-christian ratio in a supermarket, and they start talking about religion at work, productivity would drop so quickly..

 

[old.user4556]

It's pretty much the same thing though.

No it isn't. I hate religion, including Islam, but I don't hate individual followers of religion. It's not (always..) their fault that their parents / community brain washed them into believing total lies.

 

[Gwadien]

No it isn't. I hate religion, including Islam, but I don't hate individual followers of religion. It's not (always..) their fault that their parents / community brain washed them into believing total lies.

Right, so you have a conversation with a Muslim guy and you say 'I hate Islam, but I don't hate you' you'll expect him to be 'okay that's fine'

This is why your mum said if you aint got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all, because it creates suicide bombers.

 

[old.user4556]

I've got a right to speak about religion - let me use your example to illustrate - I've got many Catholic friends and we've discussed how religion is a blight on humanity across the world, and that I hate religion but respect their right to believe what they like. At no point is it ever a personal thing between us.

 

[Gwadien]

I've got a right to speak about religion - let me use your example to illustrate - I've got many Catholic friends and we've discussed how religion is a blight on humanity across the world, and that I hate religion but respect their right to believe what they like. At no point is it ever a personal thing between us.

How religious are your friends though?

Don't get me wrong, you do have a right to speak about religion, as much as Anjem Choudrey has a right to tell us all to convert to Islam.

So therefore since it's a 'right' should we not be offended by Islam4UK etc?

 

[old.user4556]

How religious are your friends though?

They're from staunch Catholic families.

In reference to "nothing nice to say", I don't go around beating an anti-religion drum with my peers, but if someone asks me my opinion on religion, or it comes up in a drunken conversation, then I'll make my opinion known.

 

[Gwadien]

They're from staunch Catholic families.

In reference to "nothing nice to say", I don't go around beating an anti-religion drum with my peers, but if someone asks me my opinion on religion, or it comes up in a drunken conversation, then I'll make my opinion known.

Yeah, pretty much exactly my point.

If Britain First didn't go and counter-protest the Islam4UK groups, their membership would dwindle.

But since Islam4UK protest outside of mosques, knowing that Britain First will come and counter-protest and call them abhorrent things, their membership swells.

It isn't productive for their aims, if they wish to achieve them realistically, as opposed to a religious conflict.

 

[throdgrain]

As usual the leftie response is "do nothing, and it will go away on it's own" lol

 

[Scouse]

Right, so you have a conversation with a Muslim guy and you say 'I hate Islam, but I don't hate you' you'll expect him to be 'okay that's fine'
.

I absolutely expect that because if I can make the mental leap to separate the religion from the human then the opposite mental leap needs to be made.

 

[Scouse]

As usual the leftie response is "do nothing, and it will go away on it's own" lol

I'm not sure he's saying that but I feel he thinks it's counterproductive. However - you'd probably call me a leftie but I'm not shy of confrontation by any measure. I think neither of your analyses hold water here, but I agree with your approach - Islam (and religion) is to be ridiculedand disrespected whenever is appropriate (as long as you're not over the top crusading).

 

[throdgrain]

I'm not sure he's saying that but I feel he thinks it's counterproductive. However - you'd probably call me a leftie but I'm not shy of confrontation by any measure. I think neither of your analyses hold water here, but I agree with your approach - Islam (and religion) is to be ridiculedand disrespected whenever is appropriate (as long as you're not over the top crusading).

You misunderstand. The leftie idea is let the poor misguided - anyone who's not white Anglo-Saxon - do what they want, demonstrate, hold marches, but penalise anyone who opposes them with as Gwadian calls them, counter-marches. Like the scumbags attacking women in Germany (and other countries it turns out) over New Year, the authorities do nothing, in fact they actually supress the news, then when people march to protest about it, and show their justified anger, out comes the authorities water cannon and everyone gets called a fascist. It's actually like they want all the wrong things to happen.

 

[Ormorof]

Of course then they can impose new "safety" and "security" measures to get away with even more shit

All the political parties do this, the way they speak about it might be different but their aims are the same

I think Gwadiens point is that the only reason anyone has even heard of Islam4UK is because of the counter marches, otherwise it would just be a tiny group outside a mosque, instead they get to play the persecuted card

Isis use the same exact strategy, they are dreaming of western troops on the ground so they can label it another crusade and bring even more god botherers into the conflict

 

[Job]

Whatever their motivation or goals, one things for sure, they have dragged Islam into a pit from which it is unlikely to recover, throwing gays off roofs..burning people alive..etc...forever associated with muslims, all there in digital HD for people to see hundreds of years from now.

 

[Talivar]

TBH tho you have just described the actions of most extreme religions including extremist Christians

 

[throdgrain]

I think Gwadiens point is that the only reason anyone has even heard of Islam4UK is because of the counter marches, otherwise it would just be a tiny group outside a mosque, instead they get to play the persecuted card

Isis use the same exact strategy, they are dreaming of western troops on the ground so they can label it another crusade and bring even more god botherers into the conflict

Fair point

 

[Job]

TBH tho you have just described the actions of most extreme religions including extremist Christians

Yes, but no one filmed it at 1080p.

 

[Gwadien]

You misunderstand. The leftie idea is let the poor misguided - anyone who's not white Anglo-Saxon - do what they want, demonstrate, hold marches, but penalise anyone who opposes them with as Gwadian calls them, counter-marches. Like the scumbags attacking women in Germany (and other countries it turns out) over New Year, the authorities do nothing, in fact they actually supress the news, then when people march to protest about it, and show their justified anger, out comes the authorities water cannon and everyone gets called a fascist. It's actually like they want all the wrong things to happen.

Nope.

I believe that crime should be dealt with individually, on a case by case basis.

What if a biker stabbed some guy and then as a result there was a call to ban people who ride motorbikes to group up in groups of more than 3?

You can call me a 'leftie' all you want, but I actually loathe the political correctness aspect of 'you can't do that because they're brown' because that, in itself is inherently racist.

I've not actually called for Britains First etc to be stopped, I don't care what they do, I support their choice to speak freely, even if it is massively counter productive.

Groups such as Islam4UK are extremists, the vast majority of Muslims laugh in their faces because what they say is pretty ridiculous, but when you have a group of white people shouting 'you're muslim scum' who's creating the Islam vs Christian conflict? - The Muslims going to the Mosque to the white people shouting at them BECAUSE they're going to a mosque?

I'm all for the discussions on here about religion and such, as @Big G says, but speaking about it intellectually and constructively to meet some kind of target is a completely different kettle of fish to actively protesting something which will only get worse due to the protesting.

 

[Job]

People do dislike entire groups based on the actions of the few, they take educated guesses as to wether the trend is endemic in the sub culture.
Pikeys move in next door...oh fuk lock the garage.
Hells Angels bought a house down the road...better park the car in the path.
Muslim family of five males moved in across the road...better keep an eye in them for extremism, well that is actually the government advice.
Be alert and report anything suspicious, you can't do that without spying in the first place.

 

[TdC]

I absolutely expect that because if I can make the mental leap to separate the religion from the human then the opposite mental leap needs to be made.

yeah, except expecting them to and actually having your counter-party be as quietly logical and rational as you are isn't really a thing when it comes to humans. for anything, not just religion.

 

[TdC]

As usual the leftie response is "do nothing, and it will go away on it's own" lol

not entirely true Throdlar. I'd rather say that the -as you call it- leftie approach is focused on the long term. unfortunately this does tend to entail that results are not immediately forthcoming.

 

[DaGaffer]

People do dislike entire groups based on the actions of the few, they take educated guesses as to wether the trend is endemic in the sub culture.
Pikeys move in next door...oh fuk lock the garage.
Hells Angels bought a house down the road...better park the car in the path.
Muslim family of five males moved in across the road...better keep an eye in them for extremism, well that is actually the government advice.
Be alert and report anything suspicious, you can't do that without spying in the first place.

Problem with that analysis is that it's pretty much entirely our own fault. 20 years ago if a Pakistani family moved into your neighbourhood you'd be worried about two things; funny cooking smells and too many people in the house. The reason why you're now worried about them blowing you up is as much down to our policies as their religion. An entire generation that were rapidly secularising suddenly turned back to the religion of their homeland because we made them feel like (dangerous) foreigners in the country they were born in.

(NB. If Hell's Angels move in across the street, you're probably justified in your worries. They're Hell's Angels ffs).

 

[Job]

Banning Trump eh?
The comment that made me roll my eyes was Corbyn and his' come over here and I'll take him to a mosque'.
Oh really...nice little friendly mosque with jolly old Abdul the Imam everybody loves, smiles all around..two civilisations hug.

 

[TheDon]

I think being PC in the workplace is extremely important.

I'm pretty sure you wouldnt want a Muslim guy in your workplace saying how he hates white people as much as you saying how much you hate Muslims.

Umm, what would happen if you are a white muslim? Just being facetious, but in the importance of being PC and all that .