Anyone recently taken out an Orange contract?

[nath]

Well you can cancel it free of charge and keep the phone.

Recently they sent out some text messages saying they're changing the minimum costs for calls. Outside of free minutes the minimum charge is increasing from 4.9p to 14.7p (or thereabouts). Given that this is considered "excessive" you have the right to cancel your contract with no penalty. Also given that the contract doesn't include your phone, you can actually keep it at no cost.

I've read of folks on the MoneySavingExpert.com forums who were in month 3 of their 24 month contract able to cancel it completely. If anyone is in a similar boat it's definitely worth doing, and worth doing fast. A month after the T&C's update it's assumed you've agreed to the terms and you no longer have a right to cancel.

Very long thread here: Orange Price changes ? - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums

The shortened version - people call up and ask to cancel and are allowed to. After a while, Orange gets miffy and their lawyers come up with some bullshit clause that if these changes are not likely to affect you (you've not gone over your minutes in the past 3 months) then you can't cancel. This is completely incorrect but all their CSR's have been told to tow this line.

The most recent post is interesting:

MoneySavingExpert.com Forums - View Single Post - Orange Price changes ?

Seems to prove that Orange is full of shit. Also, some people are reporting success with getting turned down then contacting Ofcom, coming back to Orange and telling them they've contacted Ofcom and then cancelling.

Anyway, definitely worth considering if you've got a long contract left. I've only got 3 months and I'm trying to weigh up whether it's worth sticking it out or cancelling and losing my fairly significant loyalty bonus.

 

[Raven]

Dammit, I fucked them off a few months ago for being useless and awful network coverage

 

[GReaper]

Why are they bothering with changing the T&Cs on existing customers?

Increased consumer awareness is certainly going to hurt the mobile networks if they ever change the T&Cs of their mobile contracts. People can easily use it as a get out clause out of the ever increasing contracts (18/24 months), probably leaving them with a huge headache for changing fairly useless parts of the contract (call charges beyond the allowance).

Surely it would be far more logical to only put new customers and those who upgrade onto new contracts and leave existing customers on the old T&Cs?

 

[nath]

I have a feeling they're *really* regretting this move, hence they're bullshitting customers over they phone saying that since you've not really gone over your minutes it doesn't affect you and thus you can't cancel.

It is of course a giant crock of shit and they're just trying to deal with their stupid mistake. You're absolutely right GReaper they should have made it for new customers/upgrades only. Methinks there are going to be some sackings at Orange soon.

 

[Raven]

They are getting destroyed by O2 with people buying I-Ponces so its an amazingly stupid move.

 

[nath]

Well they've got the HTC Hero now which looks to be a potential iPhone killer (once some of the glitches are ironed out with firmware) but they're providing it with 500mb data. Something which is just not enough for Android phones, so I've read.

 

[Bodhi]

They are getting destroyed by O2 with people buying I-Ponces so its an amazingly stupid move.

O2 were number 1 long before the idiot Phone turned up. All this will do is hand the number 2 position back to Vodafone on a plate. As I'm sure you all may know I used to work for thr big V, and for all their issues, my phone contract is still with them.

Mainly cos A) I know how to get the best phones out of them come renewal time (Xperia for £10 on a £20 a month contract for instance) and B) they really do have the best network. Might fall apart when you dare to go inside a building, but otherwise, they're tops.

 

[Chilly]

Well they've got the HTC Hero now which looks to be a potential iPhone killer (once some of the glitches are ironed out with firmware) but they're providing it with 500mb data. Something which is just not enough for Android phones, so I've read.

If their policy is the same as Vodafone's (and I think if you have a full on GoogleExperience phone it has to be) then the 500mb is pure http and app store downloads. Any traffic from, say, maps or email is unmetered (properly unmetered according to a senior customer service guy at voda I spoke to). Its because google sell the whole experience and cant be having peskyshit like bandwidth caps stopping them competing with apple properly. Its much the same as the o2 iphone deals. What you probably cant do is use it as a modem, although it might be worth a go.

As an aside, I have anandroid phone (htc magic) and Iv never actually used more than the 500M in a month (I have a little monitor app to count for me) and thats including the traffic I route over my wifi.

 

[nath]

That's good to know Chilly, I'll definitely check that out with them. The thing is, I expect I'd end up using 200mb a month at most but I hate the idea of getting a spiffy new phone and actually having to be concious of what I download. I'm a bit concerned that the widgets will sit there downloading stuff 24/7 and that it could rack up a fair chunk.

By the by, how are you fairing with the quite limited app storage space or have you rooted yours? I've read reports that people have to constantly uninstall stuff to make room for new apps on the g1 (dream) which has half the storage space. It'd be nice if they allowed you to install to the SD card.

 

[Ch3tan]

They are getting destroyed by O2 with people buying I-Ponces so its an amazingly stupid move.

Orange have been a shocking network for years and years now. I am surprised people bother with them at all. Network performance is soo much better on o2 and voda that I really do wonder why people would use Orange at all.

 

[Chilly]

That's good to know Chilly, I'll definitely check that out with them. The thing is, I expect I'd end up using 200mb a month at most but I hate the idea of getting a spiffy new phone and actually having to be concious of what I download. I'm a bit concerned that the widgets will sit there downloading stuff 24/7 and that it could rack up a fair chunk.

By the by, how are you fairing with the quite limited app storage space or have you rooted yours? I've read reports that people have to constantly uninstall stuff to make room for new apps on the g1 (dream) which has half the storage space. It'd be nice if they allowed you to install to the SD card.

my stuff IS on the SD card. I install whatever I want

I was worried about the 500 thing too but when you think about it the widgets dont actually tx/rx that much (depending on what they are). If you are one of those twitter degenerates you might be in for some trouble if you enjoy reading the timeline wherever you are.

 

[Raven]

Exactly, I switched from O2 to Orange a few months back and found I didn't get any service at all (no bars) at home, in the pub or at work. I cancelled within two days. They screwed that up royally by losing my number which I had used for 8+ years. They then tried to charge me for 18 months worth of contract because I cancelled, I told them to fuck right off.

I went back to O2 on a new contract.

 

[nath]

my stuff IS on the SD card. I install whatever I want

I was worried about the 500 thing too but when you think about it the widgets dont actually tx/rx that much (depending on what they are). If you are one of those twitter degenerates you might be in for some trouble if you enjoy reading the timeline wherever you are.

I've never twittered in my life and I'm insulted at the suggestion! I was thinking of putting some RSS feeds on the home screens, bbc news and a few others. Still, that's just raw text and shouldn't eat much data at all.

As for for your stuff being on the SD - have you done anything to accomplish that or does android just work that way now? I've read that for some sort of bullshit copy protection reasons you can only install Android apps to the built in memory.

 

[rynnor]

Tripling their non-covered calls rate is suicide - I'm cancelling the Mrs contract in the morning (shes well outside the initial contract period).

Bye bye Orange!

 

[nath]

Keep in mind, it's the minimum cost, not the actual per minute rate.

 

[inactionman]

Hmmm... Interesting. I don't want to have to read through that whole thread, to see if this applies to me as my Orange Contract is through Carphonewhorehouse, anyone know?

It would be useful if it did as there's a nice o2 simplicity tariff I'd switch to for £20 a month (600 mins, 1200 texts and unlimited web). Then I'd also be able to call up Be and get a discount on my broadband (which they don't tell people they do if you have an o2 phone contract).

 

[nath]

I'd imagine it does - it certainly affected people who bought from other retailers like mobiles.co.uk. You'll have a battle on your hands though, they fighting tooth and nail to convince people they're not allowed to cancel their contracts despite it being patently obvious that they can.

 

[inactionman]

I'm not worrying too much about that, I know enough about the law to scare them! Just talking about material changes of contract, escalating it to OFCOM and the fact that I am recording the call should put paid to any of that!

 

[Billargh]

Orange have been a shocking network for years and years now. I am surprised people bother with them at all. Network performance is soo much better on o2 and voda that I really do wonder why people would use Orange at all.

I'm willing to bet loads of people get an Orange contract simple to use that Orange Wednesdays gimmick.

 

[ford prefect]

I've never had a problem with orange tbh, and I have never noticed cad coverage or anything. I can understand why people would be annoyed at price changes like that though.

Luckily my phone is actually my works phone, so I get unlimited everything, which with orange works out as 3000 anytime any network minutes, 3000 landline minutes, 250mb of data and 200 texts I think - under their fari wear and tear policy or whatever its called these days. I happen to know work pay £28 (No VAT on top of that - we're NHS) per month for that which also includes a blackberry curve or bold (our choice), so they do pretty good business deals. Certainly better than my partners phone on Three which never has a steady signal anywhere, ever.

 

[GReaper]

Looks like they're trying to avoid people cancelling their contracts: Orange - the latest gravy in the battle for contract cancellations | BitterWallet

Fight the bastards!

 

[tris-]

Hmmm... Interesting. I don't want to have to read through that whole thread, to see if this applies to me as my Orange Contract is through Carphonewhorehouse, anyone know?

It would be useful if it did as there's a nice o2 simplicity tariff I'd switch to for £20 a month (600 mins, 1200 texts and unlimited web). Then I'd also be able to call up Be and get a discount on my broadband (which they don't tell people they do if you have an o2 phone contract).

Who you pay the money to is the person the contract is with, in simple terms. That maybe CPW, check if your prices with them has changed. If so, its a change to a fundamental element of the contract. When a term like that changes, the contract is altered to an extent where you have to agree again to it. If you dont want to, you can cancel it.

I havent studied contract law for about 2.5 years, but I am pretty sure I am right. It doesnt even need to be an excessive charge as nath put it, because it is such a main part of the whole contract.

 

[inactionman]

Wow they really are stonewalling. I gave all the arguements, including the fact that under the Universal Service Directive any change to the contract means I have the right to cancel, and they took none of it. They seem to be working to a script, and told me to get in touch with their legal team, OFCOM or lodge a court case. I told them that this really wasn't the way to get repeat business, but that didn't seem to bother them either.

Some people have got around this with repeat calls, but they will probably have had the time to brief everyone by now, guess I escalate it to the above or their executive office. I'll be sending an email and a letter by recorded delivery stating that I do not accept their new T&C's, and requesting a PAC code as well.

I suspect there's a big fine coming their way because of this. There's rumors that they are expecting anything up to 2 million cancellations from it, and they aren't managing them gracefully that's for sure, but it's not good long term business sense to piss off customers, but hey, who looks at the long term anymore!

 

[taB]

Tempted to have a go at this just for a laugh. Bloody daft of them tbh.

 

[tris-]

inactionamn, you dont even need to be quoting directives or anything. It is a basic contract law principle which has been around for at least 100 years

 

[inactionman]

I tried that, they aren't listening!

 

[leviathane]

they've pretty much clamped down last day or so apparently in an attempt to keep ahold of some customers.

 

[tris-]

I tried that, they aren't listening!

that is one of the draw backs though. As it is civil law it is completley up to the consumer to do something.

 

[nath]

Keep an eye on the link I posted. There's lots of good info there and I expect as soon as there's any concrete information from Orange or Ofcom it'll be posted there.

 

[leviathane]

apparently there was some meeting not to long ago, where the outcome was that the legal team says to let everyone cancel.
From the link nath posted.